Is this shit for real? GnG and you cant even defend yourself???

[Koltes]

Can someone explain what's going on here?
What do I have left to do? Drop sails, sit there and wait with my 1st rate and watch them sinking me? Why? Because my rank can be stripped for firing back at the fckers???
What do I do if someone goes GnG and keeps sinking my ship?
Do I let him do it and then they just get a warning? Do I get my ship replaced?

Also what about someone stealing your loot???
Before after issuing number of warnings you were able to sicking the fcker. Is this no longer allowed? If not then why the hell not? Are you allowing griefing in the game?
If yes, then why the hell I can't defend myself if someone attacks me???

I just dont get it.

Edited August 30, 2019 by koltes

[Teutonic]

when someone green on green's me I report but don't fire back.

In the past you had to clearly state that you would fire back if they continued - had video evidence of the fact and then maybe you would be clear.

 

But yes - essentially at this time, you don't shoot back - it's not ideal, but you don't get banned.

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

when someone green on green's me I report but don't fire back.

In the past you had to clearly state that you would fire back if they continued - had video evidence of the fact and then maybe you would be clear.

 

But yes - essentially at this time, you don't shoot back - it's not ideal, but you don't get banned.

Thanks for constructive answer dude

So if they sinking my ship... What my actions should be?
And if I cant defend myself will my ship and upgrades be replaced?
What if it was perfect gold build? Will that be replaced too?

 

 

[Teutonic]

40 minutes ago, koltes said:

Thanks for constructive answer dude

So if they sinking my ship... What my actions should be?
And if I cant defend myself will my ship and upgrades be replaced?
What if it was perfect gold build? Will that be replaced too?

 

 

The tribunal has been inconsistent in terms of who gets punished, but the only consistency I have seen is that if someone does green on green - and the evidence is there, they get a warning/banned. regardless of who the accuser or accused is.

You could argue in the tribunal for your ship to be replaced, the devs/ink have the game logs to be able to know exactly what you lost and what would theoretically need to be replaced (if they decided to replace it).

the best choice for you not to get warned, banned, or lose rank is to not green on green - even if it is infuriating.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Teutonic

[van der Clam]

Someone search the tribunals for Ink's response where we were told that AFTER a warning we can return fire. I can swear on my life that I read that and even posted the link to all the RoE's according to tribunals. We were even told to fire back at loot thieves AFTER a warning.

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, van der Clam said:

Someone search the tribunals for Ink's response where we were told that AFTER a warning we can return fire. I can swear on my life that I read that and even posted the link to all the RoE's according to tribunals. We were even told to fire back at loot thieves AFTER a warning.

Yes I remember this too. This is why I could not believe my eyes after this warning

[Beeekonda]

47 minutes ago, van der Clam said:

Someone search the tribunals for Ink's response where we were told that AFTER a warning we can return fire. I can swear on my life that I read that and even posted the link to all the RoE's according to tribunals. We were even told to fire back at loot thieves AFTER a warning.

 

42 minutes ago, koltes said:

Yes I remember this too. This is why I could not believe my eyes after this warning

Even if we assume there was something like that

 

 

I don't see no warnings being given in Combat Chat

[Potemkin]

I was under the impression that if you recieve green on green, you need to submit an f11 so they can go back and check the logs. Once you do this its weapons free. Screenshots/video and a warning in chat would probably be good too but if they do dmg to you first all bets are off.

Probably something that should get cleared up.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Potemkin

[Macjimm]

Too bad that there isn't a mechanic to prevent damaging friendly ships.  Other games do it well.

If a player fires on a friendly too much he should be tagged as a hostile rogue. And then super fast friendly NPCs spawn out of nowhere and blast the dickwad into kindling.    The hostile rogue tag makes the  player's ship an enemy of all friendly ships. The hostile rogue is then teleported to a freetown on the other side of the map, without a ship.    Then the dickwad has to pay a million reals before the hostile rogue tag is removed and he is able to dock at a friendly port again without the friendly NPCs attacking him.

[Red Tail]

11 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Too bad that there isn't a mechanic to prevent damaging friendly ships.  Other games do it well.

If a player fires on a friendly too much he should be tagged as a hostile rogue. And then super fast friendly NPCs spawn out of nowhere and blast the dickwad into kindling.    The hostile rogue tag makes the  player's ship an enemy of all friendly ships. The hostile rogue is then teleported to a freetown on the other side of the map, without a ship.    Then the dickwad has to pay a million reals before the hostile rogue tag is removed and he is able to dock at a friendly port again without the friendly NPCs attacking him.

Many new players (and not only) sometimes do a friendly fire by mistake. Thats will not going to work properly. 
And im not talking about PB where is friendly fire is a common thing (especially ramming. On porpouse or by mistake during hard turns in heavy packed group). 
I wanna say that implementing such mechanig could not be such an easy solution

[Razee]

Why not give a warning whem hitting friendly ships, then after a certain amount of dmg,kicked from server 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

- ink said, admin said - please post the links to those exact posts. ?

----

green on green is singular or mutual. By returning fire you are GoG, so to be on the correct side of things:

- give warning to the other player EXPLICITLY in the chat ( helps with the log ) and do not return fire.

- add any losses to the complaint -

- F11 the situation and add the report code to the tribunal -

- wait for judgement and replacement of lost assets -

[van der Clam]

FOUND IT!!!!!

"You can destroy the friendly ship who is stealing your loot under the following conditions (all must be fulfilled at the same time)

1. Friendly ship did not initiate the battle - if he initiated the battle its his loot even if he did not destroy the target. (you can check who initiated the battle it in the TAB interface)
2. Friendly ship does not inflict any damage on the enemies (you can approximate it by lack of kills or assists)
3. Friendly ship does not have any significant damage received from the enemy (was not active in battle and only joined to pick up loot)
4. This is not a port battle

Here is the recommended set of actions.

• Warn the player that it is your cargo and he should not take it - 2-3 times in chat
• If the warning is ignored and all 3 above mentioned pre-conditions exist - take a screenshot that of that ship near the ship he is looting
• After warnings and a screenshot you can destroy the target and take back whats yours."

 

[Karvala]

Yet more evidence that the current RoE are not fit for purpose.  My battle-entry own-side veto proposal would solve all this crap at a stroke, ensuring that the only greens were people you actually wanted to be there, with known good intentions.

Anyway, if you can sink people trying to steal your loot, but can't sink people trying to sink your ship, that makes it even more nonsensical.  The loot stealing rules don't go far enough anyway.  There should be one rule: if the kill is registered to you, the loot is yours, and anyone trying to steal the loot can be sunk.  Instead, we still have a licence for loot stealing: go in, stay upwind, hit the AI a couple of times with sniping shots, and the sail in and grab the loot while the person who did 99% of the work gets nothing.  This is someone's idea of a good policy?!

With respect to the current suggestion of just sitting around while you're sunk and then making an F11 report and asking for items to be replaced; is there any trust in this system?  Does it actually work?  The only time I've made an F11 report requesting compensation, I got zilch.  Would you really trust your gold L'Ocean to that, rather than defending yourselves?  It's just not reasonable.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Karvala

[Karvala]

7 hours ago, Red Tail said:

Many new players (and not only) sometimes do a friendly fire by mistake. Thats will not going to work properly. 
And im not talking about PB where is friendly fire is a common thing (especially ramming. On porpouse or by mistake during hard turns in heavy packed group). 
I wanna say that implementing such mechanig could not be such an easy solution

This is a fair point, but I think a rogue labelling mechanic where the players in the battle at the time said yes/no to the change of label, could work fine.  So you would have to do a certain amount of damage to friendlies, it would have to be more damage than you did to the AI (at least proportionately to the ship size) and the players in the battle would have to agree that you behaved as a rogue.  This prevents abuses on both sides: accidental damagers wouldn't qualify so they couldn't be falsely labelled as rogues by other players, and malicious damagers would have no good defence if both the damage stats and the opinion of players in the battle at the time was against them.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 hours ago, van der Clam said:

FOUND IT!!!!!

"You can destroy the friendly ship who is stealing your loot under the following conditions (all must be fulfilled at the same time)

1. Friendly ship did not initiate the battle - if he initiated the battle its his loot even if he did not destroy the target. (you can check who initiated the battle it in the TAB interface)
2. Friendly ship does not inflict any damage on the enemies (you can approximate it by lack of kills or assists)
3. Friendly ship does not have any significant damage received from the enemy (was not active in battle and only joined to pick up loot)
4. This is not a port battle

Here is the recommended set of actions.

• Warn the player that it is your cargo and he should not take it - 2-3 times in chat
• If the warning is ignored and all 3 above mentioned pre-conditions exist - take a screenshot that of that ship near the ship he is looting
• After warnings and a screenshot you can destroy the target and take back whats yours."

 

Many thanks.

Zero to do with the complaint.

My advice stands.

[van der Clam]

54 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Many thanks.

Zero to do with the complaint.

My advice stands.

So...what you're saying is....we still have a chance

...green on green is ok after warning a loot thief, but not to defend yourself after being fired upon first. We must simply endure however long it takes, possibly sink losing the ship(s), upgrades, repairs, all things in hold, and time; F11 it while it is happening; screenshot or record it while it is happening; then bring it to Tribunal. And hope that the warnings will make them cease. #soundslegit

I believe @admin should edit that post defining all green on green possibilities and publish it in the Login Announcement.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Sure. Act decent and play decent.

 

[Sea Archer]

I would say if a player shoots 2 or three full broadsides in a friendly ship, he should automatically be a pirate and therefore red to all players in battle. Loosing everything he has in the nations ports.

2 full broadsides cannot be shot by accident or mistake.

[Atreides]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:07 PM, Hethwill said:

Sure. Act decent and play decent.

 

That is not what Havoc seems to do anymore.

[Captain2Strong]

2 minutes ago, Atreides said:

That is not what Havoc seems to do anymore.

Captain 2Strong is displeased and disappointed by those words

[Wilhelm von Seydlitz]

4 minutes ago, Atreides said:

That is not what Havoc seems to do anymore.

You got sunk by 2 Havoc players, get over it, that's the game. 😉  nothing GnG

[Atreides]

29 minutes ago, Captain2Strong said:

Captain 2Strong is displeased and disappointed by those words

Just strolled in to take the piss,  I'll see my way out.  🕺

[Ink]