Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, admin said: patch10? Long ago, was deemed too hardcore, but taking the trader with its cargo was better than sinking it. If Trader models ( excluding the LGV and Indiaman ) gave no Combat Medals, it could ease out the carnage out there, because Trader Brigs and Trader Snow hunts fill PvP Hunt 6-7 missions really fast and provide zero risk. 2
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Intrepido said: However it would be better if traders BR were lower as their combat capabilities (loaded with cargo, most traders are crap at fighting...) cant match the usual raider sailing in a well prepared frigate. Agreed. Privateer and Lynx, 30 BR and 20 BR respectively, when a Trader Brig is 45 BR. After 2 minutes the trader has no chance for support. ( and no it can't escape downwind unless empty and very very VERY fast, i know it ) 2
SnovaZdorowa Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 @admin with the ROE in mind, the Indiaman doesn't weigh 150BR. imho fir/fir Indiaman without guns is about 50BR or less.
Angus MacDuff Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, Hethwill said: If Trader models ( excluding the LGV and Indiaman ) gave no Combat Medals, it could ease out the carnage out there, because Trader Brigs and Trader Snow hunts fill PvP Hunt 6-7 missions really fast and provide zero risk. True, but the only value in hitting a TBrig is for the PVP mission (and the Hunt mission). Their cargo is now solely the cargo mission and has no value to the hunter. By making them valueless, we would have countless TBrigs and TSnows trading without risk. I don't think we want that. 2
Atreides Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said: True, but the only value in hitting a TBrig is for the PVP mission (and the Hunt mission). Their cargo is now solely the cargo mission and has no value to the hunter. By making them valueless, we would have countless TBrigs and TSnows trading without risk. I don't think we want that. Then have the mission specify the attacker must be in a 6th rate or less. Make the guy put in a bit of effort, and give the trader a bit of fight available to him. I've unlocked 4 slots on the trader brig, and have destroyed or capped a few player snows with it. (almost Greg...) Edited August 23, 2019 by Atreides 1
Jim Beamreach Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Okay the OW-RoE, is let me think about it........?? Okay a Player attacked in his Trinc a Cerberus in front of Nuevitas than there comes a Player from another Nation joins the Battle on his Fantasy Wasa short after the Battle Startet fine. Now the Trinc calls for reinforcement. He will get now Support lets say from KPR in the time of the 20mins looks in the first moment fine. But when we think about that it is Nonsense cause the Battle stays in the OW on Static Point. In the Battle the Speed is slower than in the OW if the time the reinforcment Sails 100 kilometers in OW the Players Sail what 10km. Something is here wrong. Edit: A Player takes Missions to Hunt 5th,4th and 3rd Rates. He is going now on a 3rd Rate in the OW to search for Targets to attack now he sees a 4th rate and attacks the Ship with lower BR to fullyfy one of his Missions. Concratulation from now on he is in the Situation that everyone from another Nation can Jump the Battle that is able to reach the battle in the 20 min timer. Sounds like a real succes in my eys. So i coud understand the old RoE but the new one. Is a artifical createt Situation to create PvP it feels more wrong than the old system. Edited August 23, 2019 by Jim Beamreach
Guest Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 27 minutes ago, admin said: Thats not a problem..... For a Wasa. Why do you always only think about yourself. Think about the wasa from time to time. He sailed ALONE in the open sea risking his crafted ship and giving the helping hand - reinforcing the weaker side!. Are you assuming im always the hunter? I've been on both sides and experienced all outcomes. I've joined a new players battle vs ai and spoken to him instead of killing him because i know it would be unfair when i see that he struggles vs an ai for almost 20 minutes. I've been the hunter that have sunked one guy, and as he sinks his "help" joins in and sinks in a short time after. Wasa is a HERO here. Hero, a hero would be if the trader had an escort and that escort would engage in combat with the hunter either sinking or battling it out so that the trader would get safely away IN THIS KIND OF GAME! The hero you're describing is a hero that would be possible in any sci fi game or a post 1940's game where aircrafts would be able to reinforce someone from probably several miles away in a short time. + he is smart. Joining at 19-55 Remember that famous quote from the special forces commander in Vietnam. He was teaching his soldiers to be smart in battle "You want the telegram to just say your son is dead, NOT that your son is dead because he is stupid"
HachiRoku Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 5 hours ago, admin said: Open 20 min ROE is a great success based on 2 goals The goal was to reduce ganking (have more equal battles in general) The goal was to increase number of pvp battles per player per hour. Both were achieved. We merged the ROE changes before the large patch as they could not wait. Now there will be less abnormally unequal battles in Patrols It actually is only good for people on comms that have a load of clan mates in port. Its impossible for a solo player to attack a trader without a bellona jumping in 15 min later to help. Sure the solo player like myself can get some help but that ruins the fun of a sandbox. Did not know they had mobile phones in the early 19th century. It breaks immersion and the sandbox but it seems no one cares about that. People cryed about ganking like they cry when they get shot in an fps. Ganking was fine and part of open sea. The patrol zones are basically trying to be a lobby based game with fair fights except worse. 2
Guest Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, Jim Beamreach said: Okay the OW-RoE, is let me think about it........?? Okay a Player attacked in his Trinc a Cerberus in front of Nuevitas than there comes a Player from another Nation joins the Battle on his Fantasy Wasa short after the Battle Startet fine. Now the Trinc calls for reinforcement. He will get now Support lets say from KPR in the time of the 20mins looks in the first moment fine. But when we think about that it is Nonsense cause the Battle stays in the OW on Static Point. In the Battle the Speed is slower than in the OW if the time the reinforcment Sails 100 kilometers in OW the Players Sail what 10km. Something is here wrong. Edit: A Player takes Missions to Hunt 5th,4th and 3rd Rates. He is going now on a 3rd Rate in the OW to search for Targets to attack now he sees a 4th rate and attacks the Ship with lower BR to fullyfy one of his Missions. Concratulation from now on he is in the Situation that everyone from another Nation can Jump the Battle that is able to reach the battle in the 20 min timer. Sounds like a real succes in my eys. So i coud understand the old RoE but the new one. Is a artifical createt Situation to create PvP it feels more wrong than the old system. this is exactly my point to admin, its illogical that the battle stays open for so long, instead of changing the RoE from hard timer they should try to give us the players reasons to NOT go out in gank squads of 5+ ships
Angus MacDuff Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Its impossible for a solo player to attack a trader without a bellona jumping in 15 min later to help That's a little strong. I can attack a lower br and about half the time, I kill it and am gone before the reinforcement. Another 25% of the time, I am thrilled that the reinforcement is someone that I can fight also. the rest of the time, yes, I run...but even then, they normally are far enough back that I can bolt. A lot of attacking low br is about getting a better fight from whoever joins. 1
Botq Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 I really like the idea of this RoE and sometimes it working, the bad thing is that it can be easily exploited with alts
AeRoTR Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 8 hours ago, Sea Archer said: If someone starts a battle right outside your capital zone and no one joins within 2min, he deserves to have his fight without being disturbed. Only if despite of having 10 clan mates in that port, nobody can save him because there is a BLOODY JOIN TIMER when you exit that port !!! @adminMay be reduce join timer, so the clan owning that port can help their clan mates because they have many ships ready but can not join the battle when exiting the port. 3 hours ago, Wyy said: what does that help if a player joins in a battle to help 15 mins in and the gankers as you say have the first player literally dead, should we call this a chaingank? how will you stop this to happen, because us players in the OW dont know the situation in battle. A valid point. We need to see actual information of ongoing battle.
AeRoTR Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RepairyMcRepairous said: should just be you can join, but the longer it takes you to join the further away you spawn. This has been suggested MANY times, this one is the best and most realistic, but @admin does not consider this, does he ? Battle open for long time, you join late, you join far away to simulate your open world timer is much faster flowing. Another approach is join circles start to move away from each other as time passes until a point where it is illogical to join, which should be a set timer, 20 min ? Circles start to move away, if there is land, they just move away paralel to land. Edited August 23, 2019 by AeRoTR
admin Posted August 23, 2019 Author Posted August 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: It actually is only good for people on comms that have a load of clan mates in port. Its impossible for a solo player to attack a trader without a bellona jumping in 15 min later to help. Sure the solo player like myself can get some help but that ruins the fun of a sandbox. Did not know they had mobile phones in the early 19th century. It breaks immersion and the sandbox but it seems no one cares about that. People cryed about ganking like they cry when they get shot in an fps. Ganking was fine and part of open sea. The patrol zones are basically trying to be a lobby based game with fair fights except worse. i agree its not perfect but we found the compromise that somewhat works in the majority of cases and it is better than all previous one sided implementations. All other solutions are worse (including the real time sailing in OW and instances with 14 days travel across the map - same speed sailing will solve all tagging issues but will make game unplayable for some) 3
admin Posted August 23, 2019 Author Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, RepairyMcRepairous said: should just be you can join, but the longer it takes you to join the further away you spawn. 1 hour ago, AeRoTR said: This has been suggested MANY times, this one is the best and most realistic, but @admin does not consider this, does he ? It existed before land was added in battles - land did not get into battles until spring of 2016 and before it was exactly like you said. it was great but the community wanted land and we also wanted to make the game a lot more beautiful by adding land in battles (to support port battles as well) After It has been suggested too. but the players who suggested it do understand the complexity of moving the spawn and the implications of the spawn move. For example if the battle is in the La Habana Harbor - Where should we move the spawn and how useful it will be? Will we move him inland or across cuba? What about panama area - how useful that moved person be if he spawns in the pacific. 2
RKY Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 inappropriate , make it in spoilers plz, coworkers thought it was something dodgy 1
Angus MacDuff Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, admin said: It existed before land was added in battles - land did not get into battles until spring of 2016 and before it was exactly like you said. it was great but the community wanted land and we also wanted to make the game a lot more beautiful by adding land in battles (to support port battles as well) After It has been suggested too. but the players who suggested it do understand the complexity of moving the spawn and the implications of the spawn move. For example if the battle is in the La Habana Harbor - Where should we move the spawn and how useful should this moving will be for the person moved? What about panama area - how useful that moved person will be in the pacific? luck of the draw. Its possible that joining a battle late will mean you are not much use. You'll never make everyone happy (i'm sure you didn't know this).
Raf Van Boom Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 I still think that making battles open until they're over would be great with one caveat - you join the battle on the side of your nation ie. multi-side battles. I can see battles with many, many people on all kinds of sides, could be fun!
HachiRoku Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said: That's a little strong. I can attack a lower br and about half the time, I kill it and am gone before the reinforcement. Another 25% of the time, I am thrilled that the reinforcement is someone that I can fight also. the rest of the time, yes, I run...but even then, they normally are far enough back that I can bolt. A lot of attacking low br is about getting a better fight from whoever joins. I attack ships because I know what I want to fight. I don't want to attack a ship and hope that the perfect sized ship will join my battle. Why should the player that gets caught sailing a traders brig get the advantage of reinforcements? Why is he not punished but rewarded for getting caught?? 3
HachiRoku Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, admin said: i agree its not perfect but we found the compromise that somewhat works in the majority of cases and it is better than all previous one sided implementations. All other solutions are worse (including the real time sailing in OW and instances with 14 days travel across the map - same speed sailing will solve all tagging issues but will make game unplayable for some) Nothings perfect. I am just saying that imo you nailed it with the 2 min timer. You said yourself its logical. Why give up something logical for something that makes no sense and has the potential for stopping ganks? It doesn't really. Most times the person ganked is dead by the time his friends come. 2 min is the view range a ship can see a battle in open sea. Perfect. 6
Angus MacDuff Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Why should the player that gets caught sailing a traders brig get the advantage of reinforcements? Hey, i'm a believer in the 2 min timer for both sides. I don't believe in reinforcements at all, but i'm working within the rules that we have. Devs already said that this is the ROE we will go forward with.
Sea Archer Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 3 hours ago, admin said: Normal for the War Server (risk, adrenaline etc). Attacking a light 6th rate in a frigate is a Gank = and Wasa counterbalances it, stumbling upon your battle by actually sailing in the OW creating targets for others. Someone could have caught that Wasa on the way to your battle, but did not. Attack targets stronger than you. Why do you need to gank an AI trader in a frigate? Nautical question... For a friend. by the way Peace server allows attacking AI 6th rates without risk. Let the Wasa attack my frigate in OW, you call it ganking, I call the Wasa player's skill. The Wasa joining an ongoing battle with a frigate vs a brig, that you would call "counterbalancing", I call it ganking. Especially since the frigate had no chance to prepare for or evade that situation. In my eyes it is an art to single out an enemy ship and attack it, so that it won't get any support. This roe simply declines this option. And yes, I usually hunt traders in a privateer to avoid being jumped by far superior ships, but quite often some guy joins on my side, which I dislike, too. Battles shall close after 2 min. That was good for a long time and, at least in my eyes, the best and fairest solution. 1
admin Posted August 23, 2019 Author Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Wyy said: this is exactly my point to admin, its illogical that the battle stays open for so long, instead of changing the RoE from hard timer they should try to give us the players reasons to NOT go out in gank squads of 5+ ships Game is a sandbox and players define their goals and rewards themselves. We do not plan to give you any reasons to not sail with 5 friends to win! Attempts to create fair environments were tried multiple times. Not sure if players remember, but we several attempts for equality for example rookie zones. Which were deserted and empty (despite amazing proposition - cheap shallow ships and equal fights). Those attempts have not delivered anything except alienating those who love to sail with friends. People love sailing with friends and love to win. You are proposing to cut this content from players (stop them sailing with friends) under the pretense of solving ganking. We fell for such feedback before without thinking of the other side. But we learnt as we continue developing our first MMO. Every feature must take both solo and grouped player into account. Not only one of them. 11
HachiRoku Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said: Hey, i'm a believer in the 2 min timer for both sides. I don't believe in reinforcements at all, but i'm working within the rules that we have. Devs already said that this is the ROE we will go forward with. Devs have said many things and then changed their minds. Besides that even if its here to stay I complain about real life things that I cannot change either all the time 2
Raf Van Boom Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Most of the time those 1v1 circles in patrol zones are empty, people talk about how they want fair engagements but most of them don't even bother. It is pretty obvious that this is not want people in fact want. On the other hand the shallows PZ is usually full, the reason for this is, I assume, is the low cost of your loss. You simply get any old ship and go out and have fun. This should be duplicated and improved because this is what people want. Super mods, super ships all this stuff is detracting people from simply having fun. Edited August 23, 2019 by Raf Van Boom 2
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