Alts exploiting frontline system again

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

23 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

Somehow i don't think an alt clan will be able to bring 10+ 1st rates.

Trade ship. Tow ship. Done.

[John Sheppard]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Trade ship. Tow ship. Done.

Fine they can do it (assuming they had the time to grind their alts so much) but what's the point if the nation can take it back as soon as they open it again . Is someone gonna be wasting 50k dubs and 1st rates on this? way too expensive i think

[Meraun]

27 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

Somehow i don't think an alt clan will be able to bring 10+ 1st rates. If the battle is indeed against the owners of the port then it should be pretty easy to defend against alt . But even if they DO capture it fine . they can have it as long as they keep it closed no harm done , but if they open it again (which is the whole point of capturing a port if you're an alt) then the nation can re-capture it simple as that

if my main has a Ships, my Alts has the same Ship as well... you trade?

i think you underastimate how many 1st rates a Clan can Craft per day if they really focuses on it.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Meraun

[FKL 1982]

2 hours ago, admin said:

What can be done is this -  allow national clans to set up (with expensive mission for lets say 50k-100k doubloons) port battles for open ports in their nation. This will not be clan wars (too complex politically) - just a port battle for an open port. If attacker wins the port battle it will move to their control and they can close it if they do not like it. 

 

I like this, while not solving the issue of alt interferring in RvR (which let's face it, is not something that can really be done about) it will be really useful for solving issues with rogue clans who are deliberately helping opening ports for the purposes of harming their own nation/ other clans.

If you decide to do this, how long do you think it would take to implement

[FKL 1982]

2 hours ago, Raf Van Boom said:

They opened the ports to generate enemy AI, I don't think it works that way but that's why they did what they did. Relax with the drama.

Wrong, they have opened the ports as a way of trying to get other clans to drop ports that they want to control. They have said on our national discord that they will keep them open UNTIL they are given the ports that they want

[Eyesore]

I'm sorry, but this thread is just funny 🙂

You all wanted clanwars and nation is useless 🙂 now that clans have more power, the complaining begins, because some other clan doesn't do what the nation wants  😄

Now the clans want to be able to decide which clans are worthy and which ones are not ...?   Hahahaha! Now all of a sudden it (RVR) is a national effort again?  lol

[Turing]

Give a politics option. All clan leaders can vote(with a cost of X doubloons) to flip ownership of a open port to another clan. This vote can only be applied to a open port and only same faction clan leaders can vote.

If the vote ends up in favour of the current owner loosing ownership, they can refuse to give it up but then other clans(same faction still) can attack it to flip it. Refusing to comply should carry some negative effects too, like raised taxes for the clan in question or some such.

Only clans with more than 5 members should be allowed to vote... to avoid ALT abuse in this sense.

 

It could also apply to faction only ports but there the vote should be 90% to flip it to pass.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Turing

[Capitalism]

7 minutes ago, Eyesore said:

I'm sorry, but this thread is just funny 🙂

You all wanted clanwars and nation is useless 🙂 now that clans have more power, the complaining begins, because some other clan doesn't do what the nation wants  😄

Now the clans want to be able to decide which clans are worthy and which ones are not ...?   Hahahaha! Now all of a sudden it (RVR) is a national effort again?  lol

The problem is that we didn’t actually get clan wars. Like so many things our current system is a half measure that only partially implemented a good idea, and it suffers because of it. 

A full clan-based game would be far superior to this pseudo-clan/nation system we have now. And Admin’s solution is again only a half measure that’s being proposed because it’s easy, not because it’s effective (what do you do when an alt clan closes a port that you’d rather have open, etc.).

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Eyesore said:

I'm sorry, but this thread is just funny 🙂

You all wanted clanwars and nation is useless 🙂 now that clans have more power, the complaining begins, because some other clan doesn't do what the nation wants  😄

Now the clans want to be able to decide which clans are worthy and which ones are not ...?   Hahahaha! Now all of a sudden it (RVR) is a national effort again?  lol

Your post in nonsensical. Try again.

The first clan to get a port has more power but all the other clans in a nation are POWERLESS to do anything about it.

Cant deal with bad actors. Cant deal with traitors, cant take ports off of weaker clans period.

Prussia actually died because Krake land grabbed every single 45 point port in Prussia and wouldnt share and there was no mechanism to force them to hand over all those ports.

If there was inter clan PBs I think Monk would have considered kicking them out of a 45 point port.

[Eyesore]

1 hour ago, Flinch said:

Cant deal with bad actors. Cant deal with traitors, cant take ports off of weaker clans period.

Define bad actors ... When are they bad, which conditions must be met? Who decides that somebody is a bad actor?

Traitors ... hmmm, who decides who is the traitor? When does a freedomfighter become a terrorist? A 'democratic' vote? lol

Weaker clans ... ok, so they shouldn't play? Only the 'strong' clans are allowed to dictate to everybody else how to play the game?

 

You are opening an even bigger can of worms.

 

The whole RVR-system is obviously flawed (to be polite). I understand the problem. Too many threads with suggestions have been made ... here we go again.

As long as people think like they are entitled or want to controle everything, because they are right and the others are wrong, and people keep thinking that they should be able to dictate to other players how to play the game or be able to deny them to play their own game ... it won't work.  Players should never be in a position where they (a few, or the populars ones, or whatever) can decide who gets to play and who just has to sit at the sidelines (because of subjective reasons).

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Eyesore said:

Define bad actors ... When are they bad, which conditions must be met? Who decides that somebody is a bad actor?

Traitors ... hmmm, who decides who is the traitor? When does a freedomfighter become a terrorist? A 'democratic' vote? lol

Weaker clans ... ok, so they shouldn't play? Only the 'strong' clans are allowed to dictate to everybody else how to play the game?

 

You are opening an even bigger can of worms.

 

The whole RVR-system is obviously flawed (to be polite). I understand the problem. Too many threads with suggestions have been made ... here we go again.

As long as people think like they are entitled or want to controle everything, because they are right and the others are wrong, and people keep thinking that they should be able to dictate to other players how to play the game or be able to deny them to play their own game ... it won't work.  Players should never be in a position where they (a few, or the populars ones, or whatever) can decide who gets to play and who just has to sit at the sidelines (because of subjective reasons).

A bad actor is definitely an ALT clan that opens a port for enemy nations to raid a nations waters.

A bad actor is definitely a scorned clan that does the same thing.

The crux of the issue is that the worst enemy to have is someone from your own nation because you have no recourse against them.

All we are asking for is a way to self-police with musket and cannon ball against alt clans and traitor clans that actively sabotage a nation.

[Eyesore]

An Altclan, ok ... which clans are sure they have not been 'infiltrated' by an alt?

How will we prove that a clan is an altclan?

A scorned clan ... ok ... so, a clan that has a falling out with some other clans in a nation risks to get 'punished' by the other (righteous?) clans?

Atm clans can decide who can use their ports (for portbonusses and or rare woods), ok ... Why would a clan also have a say about what another clan does with its own port?

 

I understand that people want to be able to kick out or take measures against a clan that does not collaborate or causes problems or isn't popular or whatever.  But only objective reasons can be used, so what are the criteria?

I think we better solve it at the root (or as deep as we can) instead of trying to add more rules to a (an RVR-)system that is flawed at its core?

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Eyesore

[Jim Beamreach]

56 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Funny, I actually don't see the real US players saying this, only Polish, Prussia, Sweden and the rest of the nation lapdogs out there... MAGIC was the only clan that brought a first rate to Ays if I heard correctly... I think the US is just fine with MAGIC at the moment?

First of all US lost the Race. In Shipbuilding and dont has the Ranks i dont know how much time Belatrix had investet to Sail a First rate. 

We from TURN have done most of the time farming Dubs for Port Investments. We did only a couple Pve fight or PvP fights. We are more a casual Clan. With our 6 aktiv playing members. We never decide to be a Leading Clan. Only Point where we get in contact with Leadership was when LordDrax joint our Clan.

I have nothing agains VCO or any other Clan out there. If MAGIC wants to get a Port than they shoud get it. If they want to take the Leadership of the Nation than they shoud do. But to come around a corner and saying Look here we have Fist Rates what have you done the last weaks Sounds a bit Childish. If there where a bit of "we want to Help the Nation" than they shoud come on Teamspeak or Discord and dont make some from my Point of view self-glorifying statements.

For me i spent my time the way i want and not the way others want.

I have saild the most time in the US-Nation expect for a few months in British waters. So let's see if the US gets Oneported again. Or if the other Nations will give the US time to get on.

I dont speak for the US so you can make what you want.

[van Veen]

It's not a problem of frontlines, it's not even a problem of alt clans. The problem is rogue clans. These clans just don't follow the common national goals. 

Devs gave power to the clans and national cohesion suffers when rogues take key ports. There is no fix other than to cancel clan control over ports. 

[OjK]

Not only alts as we see.

Now BAIT is sabotaging GB by opening Salamance, because no one wanted to help them.

@admin I think the proposed solution with a chance of "retaking control" by different clan in nation should be applied ASAP.