Small group/clan content: Port Raids + Poll

[shunt]

If you have to put in protections then its not worth doing at all

[Steele OooOoOOoOOOooooOOOO]

I don't Understand fully the A/B. But If it was each port could generate 1 mission a week,and Only 1 per clan per week,or for Host Capitols/but you would have to add a few more hidden Islands . A or B

[Audacious]

On 5/7/2019 at 4:56 AM, admin said:

its pvp when you are bringing back the loot. Enemies will decide themselves if they want to intercept you or not to create pvp 

Can you make the loot package float. This means if player is killed and loot wasn't picked up it will float on the OS until someone picks it up (with float life timer of 30 mins). This can create even more interesting content. ex. Attacker raided port and took the Loot package, on the way home got sunk. People who sunk them did not take the package and left it as a bait. Package location is displayed to everyone on the Map. People come to pick it up and create pvp at that location. Hot hot hot!

Edited May 8, 2019 by Audacious

[HachiRoku]

23 hours ago, Radicalism said:

Can we get back flags for raids?

im theory we could have flags for pbs with frontlines too. Fake flags wound not work so well. AI needs to be taken out of rvr all together so it is less grind and more pew pew

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

im theory we could have flags for pbs with frontlines too. Fake flags wound not work so well. AI needs to be taken out of rvr all together so it is less grind and more pew pew

I wish we had flags again with the current RvR.

It would be beautiful.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Teutonic

[Potemkin]

Whatever you do make it so that specific target port can only be raided once a day, might even want a longer cooldown depending on what people think. Also assuming theres a flag involved, put a lifespan timer on it which limits the range of plantable ports and forces the attacker to consider wind direction and the route of attack and potential screening, presumably necessitating an offensive screen which would include more randoms who just wanna tag along or are already in the area. 

Last but not least ill add to the pvp sentiment, give defenders an opportunity to organize a team of their own instead of strictly pve. Even just the transit time to the target should be sufficient if its an important port.

Just one more fyi, if you enable raids outside set timer windows and infrastructure/assets can be lost it will create a mutually assured destruction mentality between timezones and it will get outa hand very quickly.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Potemkin

[Slim McSauce]

34 minutes ago, Routan said:

If not it is a open buffe table. 

that's good though, you want players to feast. Admin said combat is going back to being the money maker, raids are instrument to achieve that, plus content.

Side note, has anyone noticed PB's placed on timers within a certain period of hours in the day? Why is that? Because of that timezones get excluded, not very global server friendly. 

It sounds like it would be smarter to go the other direction, to longer periods of PB's, that way no timezone can be excluded within a 24 hour period. A step further would be making pb periods last upwards of 3 days, that way you can have battles all week without rescheduling the by the day, or by the hour of the day but the period of the week which is multitudes more flexible.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Routan said:

I might have mised it. With 250 k a day only capitols will have timers. Not the other ports. Will all ports be covered by the country timer with raids? If not it is a open buffe table. 

You know a bit off topic but having the main port set the timer for all sub ports of the region would be nice. I would have it collect a portion of the sub ports tax’s too.  I might make a suggestion about this.

back on topic this means raids only work on the sub ports but you have to have a port battle with the main as wa means to win the region.

[Potemkin]

4 hours ago, Routan said:

I might have mised it. With 250 k a day only capitols will have timers. Not the other ports. Will all ports be covered by the country timer with raids? If not it is a open buffe table. 

What i meant was, if you have a timer set on your main crafting port that you built up and someone raids it 8 hrs outside the timer window when you dont have any players online and you lose 10-15% of your invested infrastructure its not going to be a good situation. Any other port, who cares about the timer. But its all hypothetical at this point, we'll see what they do. 

Im also curious to know whether or not the activities during a raid will count towards hostility. Would be a nice alternative to grinding missions if theres a possibility of infusing pvp with raids.

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

Apart from the mechanic and timer issues I´d very much like to see some content for the unrated vessels. They also merit some place in the game!

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 hours ago, Routan said:

Why can’t you attack main port for raids with timer on? Know it will be harder, but still duable. 

If the sub ports dosn’t have timer, think most of the raids will be uncontested if against other players, unless we get a much higher pop around the clock.

The main port prob should be only hit with Port Battles. What they can do is make raids count as hostility.  Each raids adds hostility to the Capital Port until it sets the port battle.  Than once they taken the main port they can attack the others.  

As for the timer thing I mention you can bump up the cost of the timers to effect the whole region, but I would also say that subports get 5% of there tax while the other 5% goes to who ever owns the capital and has the regions timer set.  Right now no one is putting timers on sub region ports cause unless some one uses an exploit you can't attack a sub region port without capturing the capital first.

5 hours ago, Routan said:

Just thought with the point system some of the next port might be used for the rare woods and maybe production building. Was just woundring if they would be save under the Capitol timer.

The capitals have the best points to do crafting ships out of, the other ports tend to have low points so they can have a rare resources or a few normal if some one wants along with extra defense if needed for coast line.

[Psycho3630]

On 5/7/2019 at 6:02 AM, Miaowi said:

CRAZY IDEA: could the reward be permits/notes instead? One that conforms to the building bonuses of the raided port?

i.e: I raid a 45 point port. my permit/note has sailing bonus 4, hull 4, gunnery 4 etc... 

In this way the raiders get a ship that is usually out of reach for them. it doesn't hurt the economy of the raid victim. (this also stops big clans from emptying ports using multiple raids) You'd still turn up to defend as you don't want others to copy/have your ships

 

 

 

Now this I can get behind. The nation that produces the investments still has the benefit of all ships build there having the bonuses, but gives others a chance to compete with them at some level. Owning nation can still protect its advantage by defending against raids.  

Edited May 10, 2019 by Psycho3630

[Vinnie]

My vote would be for raids to be against elite AI ships if not filled by defending players.  Otherwise it will turn out to be yet one more mechanic benefiting the big nations, making sure the small stay small.  Nothing would stop a nation with 25 players online from starting five simultaneous raids that the smaller nation couldn't possibly cover.  

Also agree that this is perfect for giving smaller ships a role in the game.  Nothing bigger than 5th rates. 

And ships could be part of the booty, representing "cutting out" operations.  Would hate to see my orange Santi carried off as loot, but has a certain truth to it.  Or have I seen "The Admiral" too many times?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Vinnie

[Teutonic]

What if you made two types of Raids?

 

1. that is a "Heavy Raid" which focuses of the ports Investments and aptly gives both Defenders and Opportunists time to respond

2. a "Normal Raid" Which focuses on raiding a port for resources and materials - Similar to the Looting Table at the End Screen we had in battles long ago. You could get Teak wood, or Copper Ingots, or Mods. This Raid would be more towards a mission type similar to hostility missions?

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

I will never understand how some people can say no to new content.

Neither why some have chosen to have a repetition of the PB mechanics. Isnt better having something fresh and new?

In this game seeing "fresh and new" stuff is often cause for concern

 

[Sento de Benimaclet]

The success of a raid is surprise. That factor is lost if the attack is left for the next day.

[AeRoTR]

So what about raids ?

 

[PaladinFX]

This should be so much fun!

Given the overwhelming majority voting for Yes + Raids Today; it should be great content for everyone and a nice difference to port battle RvR. On the surface it looks like bringing back that feel us veterans had of the flag system that gave each night a sense of urgency and fun to play!

Looking forward to it being implemented. 

I would suggest trying to get this patch in before release though. As we have seen recently with the new front lines system for RvR there will be those out there trying to exploit the Raid mechanic. I think it would be good to iron out any issues before release. A messy new mechanic brought in soon after release will not create a good impression on those new to the game from release.

Edited May 28, 2019 by PaladinFX

[Johnny Rotten]

On 5/28/2019 at 8:30 AM, Fovos said:

-defending side has 7+3 elite/non-elite NPC.

AI are awful to have on your side, i'd rather have players who can rep/tack through the wind. Adding AI like this will just give the attackers thee upper hand...

 

[PaladinFX]

Suggestion for Raid mechanics to create more potential pvp opportunities and avoid having to use PVE with ai:

1. Group leader of  a group of X size pulls a flag for Y port in a certain ccounty. Flag will have a timer on it. That group will be formed as a "Raid Group", not the usual kind of group. The flag carrier has a Red Flag above his ship in OW. All other group members have say a Black Flag, or some such colour designating them as in the Raid Group.

2. Group is limited to certain BR. Thus they can decide how many ships and what type to take to reach that max BR. Ideally this is a Small Group mechanic so the max BR can't be too high. Group size should also have a limit; maybe somewhere between 6 and 10 ships for example.

3. The clan that owns the County Capital of the target port gets a notification of a possible raid: "Our spies have informed us that xxxx are planning a raid on your yyyy region"

4. Defenders must then form a group, again with the same(???) max BR to sail and try to stop the attackers. That group will be formed as a "Raid Defence" group, not a usual group. Each of the Defence Group members have a flag above their ship in OW designating them as in that group, say Yellow for example.

5. Only the Raid Defence group can gain a successful attack on the Raid Group; anyone else trying to attack them, the attack will fail: "You cannot attack this ship". Same goes for the Raid Group; only they can attack the Defence Group. Of course the scouts not in either group can be out and about ahead of their group trying to spot the enemy and reporting back. This could of course lead to fleets also out and about looking for additional pvp like we get with screening fleets in port battles!

6. A successful raid is gained by:

(a) the flag carrier delivering the flag to the destination port without being intercepted by the Raid Defence group and within the flag timer window, or

(b) defeating the Raid Defence group in battle(s), and then proceeding to deliver the flag within the flag timer window. Multiple engagements are allowed but only for members of the original Raid Group and Raid Defence groups, ie you cannot sub people in after some have sunk. Hence, if Defence group loses say 3 out of 10 ships in engagement one, in the next engagement only the remaining seven members of the group can engage. Same goes for the Raid group.

(c) if the flag carrier sinks in a battle, one of his group members can salvage the flag from the carriers hold and become the new flag carrier. If the Defence Group take the flag, the raid has failed.

7. Flags should be relatively expensive to purchase; in reals or doubloons. Maybe 1,000,000 reals or 50,000 doubloons???

OK thats just a quick brainstorm of an idea. I'm sure others may have ideas on making that even better.

My main aim was to come up with an rough idea for a mechanic that could possibly create pvp and not require pve against ai.

 

Side Notes:

There needs to be rules around all of this to stop griefing and night flipping, such as how often and how many flags can be pulled, and at what time, eg during port battle window(?). Examples of some rules could be:

1. Each nation can only purchase one flag for any given County in any 24 hour period. That county's ports would then become greyed out in the port ui.

2. A maximum of 2 flags, one from each of two nations, can be purchased for any given County in an 24 hour period.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by PaladinFX

[Stilgar]

On 5/7/2019 at 11:04 PM, Barbarosa said:

5 min flag planting is enough to simulate coastal raiding.

Let people spread, sail. scout, pop up to check their beloved ports, let them go out and sail finally. This will create lots of content. Smaller nations will be harder to raid, bigger ones easier. 

Fake groups, help from other nations, small screenings, Sneak attacks when nation has port battle, opportunist pvpers...lots of potential. FFS don't ruin this one too please.

Very good point. You just need a good stimulus for players to leave port and start interacting / engaging (and not artificial PVE missions or mechanics open for exploit). With much less at stakes compared to proper PB (smaller ships involved and loss of some income as worst that can happen), players will be more willing to engage. Less is more! 

[Stilgar]

On 5/7/2019 at 4:12 PM, Barbarosa said:

Timeflow:

1. Attacker buys a flag from any national port. (to avoid basic cutter scouting right from the beginning, flag cost resources to avoid spam)
2. Rumours about the plan start spreading. The flag is announced to Nation or whole server (if you want everyone seeking fun to join.) The targeted port is unknown for defender, only the nation to be attacked is known.  Every port of that nation can be a target. 
3. The flag cannot be removed from the port for coming 20 min, giving time for others to prepare for fun.
4. After 20 min, attackers can take the flag and leave the port. An announcement will be made that a raiding fleet set sails to attack an X nation port. 
5. After 10 minutes, rumours will spread about the county name the possible raid has been launched. regardless of the attacker leave timer. Sooner they leave better for them to be undetected.
6. Attackers will have 30 min to plant the flag. The route they took is up to them. Yet the target is unknown. Do not worry about it. Not every port is worth raiding. Let some raid very unexpected ports for low-profit while others try to raid Cartaghena. There is no problem of raiding very close enemy ports either, that will serve to the creation of frontiers.
7. Planting the flag will take 5 minutes standing stationary, allowing defenders to attack and interrupt. 
8. As soon as the flag is planted loot menu will appear like deadman chest. The attacker will need to bring it to any national port. No needless AI fighting.
9. The defenders can intercept prior to or after the raid.
10. The chest will contain the 20% tax income of the port from the previous day (to be extracted from future income) + some extra goodies. If anyone else managed to cap back the chest, goodies will be deleted and only tax amount will stay to avoid abuse.
11. Deadman chest is heavy so you need to bring traders with you. Traders will serve to avoid fast ships abuse ect. protecting, capturing traders will be a priority.

Rules:

1. Max group size 6. 1 being a trader. Trader as a fleet might be allowed or let's try fighting traders?
2. Max ship lvl allowed to the attacker is 4th rate.
3. No limits for defenders. (Finally remove the stupidly high bonuses/wood difference to not see fir/fir Victories catching every 5th rate. Without correction of idiotic bonuses nothing will work in this game.)

I am at work and can not write more detailed. But this will give lots of content for everyone I guess.

EDIT: More restrictions or rules you add will only serve to another failure implementation. Keep it basic, simple, let it flow. It is raiding, keep it open, stop restricting everything to force your vision. Let players decide how to approach it. We don't need circles, AI battles, OW is enough. Whatever makes you sail is good. Stop approaching everything as a lobby instance.

This is way to go. I am all for raids, but no PVE missions please and a sensible flag mechanics that would stir small-scale action ideally involving mainly 5ht and 4th rate ships. 

(sorry for double posting: lazy to edit and combine quotes from different posts)

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

@admin  What is the status of Raids? Has the concept been dropped or is it expected to be released at a later date post-release? Raids were a concept that many have been looking towards. It would be nice to know the status of this concept rather than holding onto hope that it will be released if the idea is dropped.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Davos Seasworth

[Potemkin]

Would be pretty cool to know whats up, i was pretty stoked for this. I dont care if its delayed i think alot of people just want to be re-assured its still on the table.

[bourdonnais]

Can't you start with a stable diplomatic system with war/alliances before complicate the system with such possibilities?