Bonuses Getting Stacked Too High

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I wanted to take a moment to look at potential ship bonuses and how they can impact gameplay.  Right now, there are four ways ships can get a variety of bonuses: 

1.  The wood(s) the ship is made out of.
2.  The random bonuses such as "cramped," "very fast," and "agile."
3.  The permanent modules that are put on the ship.
4.  The skill books used on a ship.
5.  The port port bonuses when the ship is crafted.

This can lead to some rather strange things.  This morning, a Xebec was just a shade slower than my speed-rigged, Fir/Fir Pandora 190 degrees off the wind.  Similarly, I've seen square riggers sail just as fast close-hauled as a Prince.  We routinely see speed-capped Teak/WO vessels, and some have been made so fast that the speed curve turns into a flat line, as they lose any "bad" points of sail.  To boot, when they get close, their hulls manage to still be thick enough to shrug off most damage, or to repair through the lion's share of it.

Simply put, the ability to stack bonuses has gotten us to a strange place, and we have not yet even seen how much further the very high port bonuses will over tip the scales of realism and arcade.  I am aware that there are plans to nerf skill books and modules, but I suspect that it will not go nearly far enough.

Instead, what I propose is a general idea to keep in the back of the developers minds.  We already have balancing mechanisms for perks and port investments.  There are X points to spend, and more things to choose from than you can spend them all on.  Simply put, there are Either/Or scenarios put upon the players.  Those Either/Or scenarios are not present in ship building.  You really can have a ship that is so excellent at so many things that it negates any weak spots it might have left.

So, the brass tacks of the proposal:

1.  Keep in mind a sort of "point" system for ship characteristics.  I would argue a good starting point would be a specialized ship should be no more than 10% better than the base model vessel in one aspect.  A hyper-specialized ship should be no more than 20% better than the base model vessel in any one aspect, and should come up with 10% points in other aspects where it is in fact worse.
2.  Divvy up how you want those bonuses to originate.  If you want half of them to come from the shipyards, then they should only get 5% bonuses to something OR 10% bonuses to something with a 5% penalty to something else.
3.  Get rid of sail force modifiers.  They have too many follow-on effects, such as tacking, the ability to stop suddenly, and are entirely broken with the Xebec.
4.  Look at sailing profiles of ships again, and try to make them more distinctive so there is less ability to "flatten" speed curves.

How might this look in practice:

If you want half of the bonuses to come from port investments, a quarter from woods, 20% from modules and skill books, and 5% from random bonuses, a pure speed built vessel might look like this:

Fir/Fir for a total of 5% speed boost, Negative 2.5% hull integrity; Very Fast for 1% speed boost, negative .5% turning ability; a port investment of 10% speed boost and negative 5% hull integrity; and a variety of books and modules (ten total!) adding up to only 4% speed boost and negative 2% in other attributes (such as 1% in turning and 1% in hull integrity).  This would make for a vessel 20% faster than others, but with 8.5% less hull integrity and 1.5% less turning ability.  The average book and module would only add .4% speed and take away .2% in something else.

This would further mean that the best ship would be only 10% stronger than the base model, or 20% stronger with 10% of weaknesses in other areas, but the average ships would be significantly closer, reducing the equipment gap and allowing for skill to more truly shine through.

However, the true gist of the idea is this:  Please have a finite cap in mind for how much bonuses ships should be able to get.  What number feels right to you?  What should players sacrifice to get those bonuses?  How much more powerful should a fully kitted out vessel be than one fresh off the docks?

For those who read this far, thank you.  If you have examples of ridiculous ships, particularly your own, where you can demonstrate how it was built, how it was outfitted, and what the effects are in combat, please post them up here so that we might bring balance to bonuses before the launch of the game.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Signed. Especially now:

Port bonus, as soon big clans will start stacking VMs (the only one probably in short now) will start producing super-ships simply too strong. Add a random 4/5 and 5 book slots and we can get something totally un-manageable by great majority of players.

[Sir Max Magic]

3 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Signed. Especially now:

Port bonus, as soon big clans will start stacking VMs (the only one probably in short now) will start producing super-ships simply too strong. Add a random 4/5 and 5 book slots and we can get something totally un-manageable by great majority of players.

Absolutely agree ! +1

Got shocked when i figured out after patch how big the Port Bonusses could get --- totally unrealistic and breaking any last bid of balance we might had before  

Couple this with rare woods mostly available only for big clans and they get super ships, which will steamroll any other "default" ships !

 

And noone should come with the argument: You can buy those ships from big clans !

1. They will never ever sell 4/5 purple or 5/5 gold crafted ships to anybody outside of their clan

2. Until the "masses" will get their hands on 5/5 Port Trim Ships, all other Clanmembers will get equipped first...not to speak about replacing their lost ships from PBs

3. IF any Clan would finally sell some of their well made ships to the Public, the Price Tag will be insanely high...so high, that the "normal" Player can never risk to lose his billionaire ship in Battle

 

This system will lead to nothing else than frustration and major conflicts between the big clans and the smaller ones...even inside a nation...and to conflicts inside clans, when questionable clanleaders will use their kicking power to silence any critic  

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[o Barão]

You are right. I always defend a more balance NA experience for all players , but that is not what the devs want  and so we continue with this big problem.

This last week the devs came with this: " mods and books are getting massive nerfs in 1-2 days. + some base ship parameters like accel and decel turning. "

Link:

 

Sounds good right? However they are saying this now when we have a new patch that allows the big clans to make completely broken OP ships, so the status quo continues the same.

 

F.U.B.A.R.

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 minutes ago, no one said:

You are right. I always defend a more balance NA experience for all players , but that is not what the devs want  and so we continue with this big problem.

This last week the devs came with this: " mods and books are getting massive nerfs in 1-2 days. + some base ship parameters like accel and decel turning. "

 

 

Sounds good right? However they are saying this now when we have a new patch that allows the big clans to make completely broken OP ships, so the status quo continues the same.

 

F.U.B.A.R.

 

I read too about nerf of books.

And it's even worst.

EVERYBODY get nerfed... and big clans get the hefty bonuses with ports that they can cap and defend (and expand).

[Dibbler (Retired)]

8 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I read too about nerf of books.

And it's even worst.

EVERYBODY get nerfed... and big clans get the hefty bonuses with ports that they can cap and defend (and expand).

 

 Lol guess thats why we will keep book knowledge on final wipe. 😂🤣

 Personally i cannot see current port bonuses staying as they are, but wouldn't rule it out totally on past form.

 The idea of ability to invest in ports though is sound i think, just values and bonuses as others said are i think to high.   Am sure things will be tinkered with though which can even be done after release.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dibbler

[o Barão]

3 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

 

"EVERYBODY get nerfed... and big clans get the hefty bonuses with ports that they can cap and defend (and expand)."

True, and now it is going to be worse. When in the past an experienced solo player could get the books, upgrades and maybe get the ships he wanted with the right contacts or maybe tried to crafted them alone. It was very hard for a solo player to get this and it would be a great loss if he manages to lose the ship,  but it could happen. Now with the new patch hello kittyed that. Or you are in big clan or you have no future in the game.

I am hoping to see some changes in the pve server to make the gameplay there interesting, because i already lost all hopes in the pvp server. It is a dead game.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I'm actually OK with the port investments - I think they're a fantastic idea.  I just worry the numbers are too high.  There's nothing wrong with varying woods, permanent modules, skill books, or port investments.  I don't think any of this kills the game or PvP, because it hasn't hit release yet.  We're still testing, seeing what works and what doesn't.  I merely am offering a more structured approach to balancing all the ways to customize a ship - which I think most are in favor of.

[Sir Texas Sir]

20 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I read too about nerf of books.

And it's even worst.

EVERYBODY get nerfed... and big clans get the hefty bonuses with ports that they can cap and defend (and expand).

You do know freindly clans can use that port and get the same thing too.  Ya'll keep acting like big clans are all that is in the game.  Most nations aren't one clan after all doing every thing.

 

I do agree some of those numbers look really high if some one maxed out that part.

[Licinio Chiavari]

25 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You do know freindly clans can use that port and get the same thing too.  Ya'll keep acting like big clans are all that is in the game.  Most nations aren't one clan after all doing every thing.

 

I do agree some of those numbers look really high if some one maxed out that part.

I mean this is killing more and more small nations - small clans - solos.

[Chilly Willy]

Alot of changes since the start      

seems to kinda gotten away form original intent of realism

will be interesting to see how the mechanics develop