A proper BR system for Port Battles

[OjK]

New patch, and yet again, new mess with BR pool of the ports.
How about, we sit down for a minute, and think about a proper design of port battle limits.
Let's use Trafalgar as a nice benchmark.

Battle of Trafalgar took 74 ships to participate.
Out of them, only 60 were the Ships of the line. (80%)
Out of those, 49 were the 3rd Rate. (another 80%)

 

So now, let's move that numbers to the Naval Action.

Out of 25 ships per side, 80% beeing Ships of the Line should be 20 ships.
Out of those 20 ships, 16 should be 3rd Rates, and other 4 should be bigger.

Math:

2980 - 4x either 1st or 2nd Rate -> current avg BR of ships from that range is 745
7008 - 16x 3rd Rate -> current avg BR of 3rd Rate Ships is 438
+ extra 1000 BR for 5 frigates.

That makes total of 11.000 BR for one fleet
For the most epic sailing battle in history.

And we're setting up the BR for 25.000? More than twice as much?
How about we tune down the numbers?

12.000 for Biggest ports
10.000 for Capitals
5.000 for majority of smaller ports, with also limitations of nothing bigger than 3rd rates?

Also, some smaller ports (not shallows!) where BR would be even smaller - like 3000, 4000 with only 4th rates and smaller allowed

Yeah, huge battles 25v25 are fun. But there should be some place in the game for smaller encounters as well!

Also, the small differences in BR per port are really needed. If every port will have the exact same value, there will be just ONE template for all the port battles.
Not fun.

Edited April 25, 2019 by OjK

[Sven Silberbart]

AGREE

[Tom Farseer]

I wholeheartedly agree to everything you just posted. Well said!

Edited April 25, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[Angus MacDuff]

You could also inject a "Rate limit on the PB.  For instance, with the highest BR PB, you can have 2 x 1st Rate, 3 x 2nd rate and no limit on the rest.  You could even balance it more by requiring at least 3 x 5th rate.

[Serk]

I agree,  but then we need more variety for 3rd rate ships. I’m looking at you, Téméraire

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Serk said:

I agree,  but then we need more variety for 3rd rate ships. I’m looking at you, Téméraire

2nd rate...

[Carlos_Condell]

Agreed

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, OjK said:

New patch, and yet again, new mess with BR pool of the ports.

I guess devs have not received positive comments for the previous system and abandoned it thinking people do not like it. 
Many of my friends preferred full first rates battles and left the game when limits were introduced. Bigger battles give more options for mistakes in coordination.

[Meraun]

Shoudnet we test the new System first? There has not been a single RvR PB since the patch since we are all taking neutral ports..

I believe Country Capitals shoud allow 25 vs 25 big Sols.  with 25000 BR. Keep them smaller Battles to smaller Ports.

I Short, i favore the new System.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Meraun

[OjK]

22 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

You could also inject a "Rate limit on the PB.  For instance, with the highest BR PB, you can have 2 x 1st Rate, 3 x 2nd rate and no limit on the rest.  You could even balance it more by requiring at least 3 x 5th rate.

Well, I made such proposals few times on the forums already.
I'd love to see that, I could even do the "paper work" for game devs if they'd agree to implement that, and write down the details of how class-structurized BR could be achieved, while beeing easy to understand.

Unfortunately, never noticed any interest from admin about any of my previous port battle structure post.

So as for now, I'll be just happy with tweaking the numbers.

Edited April 25, 2019 by OjK

[OjK]

Just now, Meraun said:

Shoudnet we test the new System first? There has not been a single RvR PB since the patch since we are all taking neutral ports..

What do You want to test actually?
25 L'Oceans is 22.500 BR. And county capitals are 20k-25k
 

[Sven Silberbart]

I remember the old mono 1st rate battles as boring, it has been tested long time ago

[Baity McBait Bait mark2]

Would be nice for mixed fleets, they always make the best battles.

[Socialism]

What I don't get is why are first rate fleet PBs back...but then all the recent crafting and woods changes are designed to limit first rates and make them rare....but we now have 10x more 1st rate battles.....  and this new system is designed to increase RVR?  Shit doesn't add up.

All this does is make sure GB and whatever Zerg nation is hot for the month will be able to roll the map

Edited April 25, 2019 by Socialism

[Meraun]

12 minutes ago, OjK said:

What do You want to test actually?
25 L'Oceans is 22.500 BR. And county capitals are 20k-25k
 

But 3/4 of the Port are non-Country Capitals with 10k BR  + all Shallow PB's. Taht means that most engangment will be alot smaller with mix fleet's right?

[OjK]

1 minute ago, Meraun said:

But 3/4 of the Port are non-Country Capitals with 10k BR  + all Shallow PB's. Taht means that most engangment will be alot smaller with mix fleet's right?

We had those already. If You didn't notice, the 10K BR was what used to be a capital rating for at least a year.
So again - what would You like to test?

And don't forget - if You'd like to attack someone regional port now, first You need to make through the 25x 1st Rate Battle for the County Capital.

[Vizzini]

 

The make up of a pb fleet is for many nations, whoever turns up , what ship they have available and whoever gets through the screeners. There should be no formula for how many ships of which class per PB , that should be player choice ( dictated by the devs with the hard cap on BR )

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, OjK said:

New patch, and yet again, new mess with BR pool of the ports.
How about, we sit down for a minute, and think about a proper design of port battle limits.
Let's use Trafalgar as a nice benchmark.

Battle of Trafalgar took 74 ships to participate.
Out of them, only 60 were the Ships of the line. (80%)
Out of those, 49 were the 3rd Rate. (another 80%)

 

So now, let's move that numbers to the Naval Action.

Out of 25 ships per side, 80% beeing Ships of the Line should be 20 ships.
Out of those 20 ships, 16 should be 3rd Rates, and other 4 should be bigger.

Math:

2980 - 4x either 1st or 2nd Rate -> current avg BR of ships from that range is 745
7008 - 16x 3rd Rate -> current avg BR of 3rd Rate Ships is 438
+ extra 1000 BR for 5 frigates.

That makes total of 11.000 BR
For the most epic sailing battle in history.

And we're setting up the BR for 25.000? More than twice as much?
How about we tune down the numbers?

12.000 for Biggest ports
10.000 for Capitals
5.000 for majority of smaller ports, with also limitations of nothing bigger than 3rd rates?

Also, some smaller ports (not shallows!) where BR would be even smaller - like 3000, 4000 with only 4th rates and smaller allowed

Yeah, huge battles 25v25 are fun. But there should be some place in the game for smaller encounters as well!

Also, the small differences in BR per port are really needed. If every port will have the exact same value, there will be just ONE template for all the port battles.
Not fun.

the best is when the port owner has  br options. a small clan or smal nation can set small br.

[OjK]

Just now, El Patron said:

the best is when the port owner has  br options. a small clan or smal nation can set small br.

No no, that would be way too easily exploited.
Just imagine setting BR for "just few ships" and then fighting the "selected few" top-of-elite players every time.

[Teutonic]

My group could barely fill 5k BR ports and that was with literally every single person I could get online.

The change to shallows is "ok". You need 10 surprises, a cerb and mortar brig to barely fill the port. 

The fact that deep water are minimum of 10,000 BR means if your Timezone doesn't have 20 people then you're shit out of luck.

 

[Guest]

all guys are crying here. atm we dont have the numbers but the devs make a game for more players. not for 500

[Barbarosa]

There is no high BR, there is less vodka.

With enough vodka you can go with 5-8 guys on your prime time against full fleet of Russians.

No worries BR will change as soon as Russians take over the ports they want.

[Snoopy]

I agree with the principle, but the historic math is slightly off:

Your BR calculations would prevent you from having an actual Trafalgar line up in the game.
If you map the battle's OOB and corresponding BR using napkin math:

British side had 27 SoL total (7* 1/2nd rates = 5215, 17* 3rd rate = 7446, 3*4th rate = 1020 [these are 64gun ships, 3rd rate in the RN]) = 13661 BR
France/Spain: 33 SoL (4* 1/2nd rates = 2980,   28* 3rd rate = 12264, 1 64gun = 340 = 15584 BR

This is per the OP's math, I really wouldn't lob First and Second rates into one category, it also ignores the Spanish/French 80gunners being listed as Third Rates; the BR for the Spanish and French 74s is on the low side, both had 36pd guns vs British 32s,

The actual BR of the Franco-Spanish fleet is more like this:

4 First Rates: 4*900 = 3600
6 80gun two decker: 6*700 = 4200
2 74, British 32pd 2*500 = 1000
20 74, Spanish/French 36pd 550ish = 11000
1 64 = 340

total: 20140 BR

[Sven Silberbart]

-nix-

Edited April 25, 2019 by Sven Silberbart

[Sven Silberbart]

53 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

My group could barely fill 5k BR ports and that was with literally every single person I could get online.

The change to shallows is "ok". You need 10 surprises, a cerb and mortar brig to barely fill the port. 

The fact that deep water are minimum of 10,000 BR means if your Timezone doesn't have 20 people then you're shit out of luck.

 

Right. BR Limits must be lowered a lot.

21 minutes ago, El Patron said:

all guys are crying here. atm we dont have the numbers but the devs make a game for more players. not for 500

Why not making a game which is playable with big and low Pop?