Patch 31: Port investments, new hostility and preparation for release

[AeRoTR]

I think those port bonuses will be nerfed, or I am sure  

[Werewolf]

2 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Already DLC get lower chances of superior (purple/gold) ship.

As port craft bonus will start to grow, Herc-Pandora-Ratt will be totally sub-par against any similarly sized crafted ship. Please re-read port craft potential bonuses.

 

PS: all these "mystic" of DLC are free is pure crap.
What usually costs are mods.

An unmodded (so really free - aside cannons as stated) ship (and moreover with port bonuses) will be not a easy throw away, but simply feeding enemies' kills, simply standing no chances.

Again though, in my personal case, I don't spend any kind of resources or anything on my DLC ships. I view them only as cheap throwaway fun, I don't attempt to actually be competitive with them. I can see where your points stand for people that want to be competitive in their DLC ships, but I guess in my specific case I don't care about having a superior ship, etc. I was always told that in this game, the better captain wins, not the better ship. Whether or not that's true is a whole different debate... but if you're not going out to win in the first place, the DLC ships are quite fun. I like to do things in them I'd never do in a hard earned ship. Most of the things I have learned in this game, I learned from my losses.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Werewolf

[Licinio Chiavari]

15 minutes ago, Routan said:

Ppl dont ask for superior ship, just that they are competive.

Exactly.

And to Werewolf: you can learn something fighting a more experienced enemy with someway comparable ships and not 5v1.

If you're fighting a veteran who has a 20% sturdier, 10ish% faster, 15% faster reloading, 10% more precise, with 5% more penetration and 5% more manouvrable ship (taking into account a similar to DLC with 3-4 mods edge and port bonuses) you'll learn nothing. You'll die simply very fast.

Therefore, I'd repeat - and I hope in Devs statement - or allow port bonuses to DLCs or, give DLC owners blueprints for owned ships: if they want not throwaway ships but competitive (and may be someone really likes Hercules for example) they will be allowed to having to craft them as any other player.

[Werewolf]

4 hours ago, Routan said:

Ppl dont ask for superior ship, just that they are competive.

And that's fine, and is a totally logical request. I was simply stating my personal (read: doesn't matter) opinions on it.

[van der Clam]

6 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Exactly.

And to Werewolf: you can learn something fighting a more experienced enemy with someway comparable ships and not 5v1.

If you're fighting a veteran who has a 20% sturdier, 10ish% faster, 15% faster reloading, 10% more precise, with 5% more penetration and 5% more manouvrable ship (taking into account a similar to DLC with 3-4 mods edge and port bonuses) you'll learn nothing. You'll die simply very fast.

Therefore, I'd repeat - and I hope in Devs statement - or allow port bonuses to DLCs or, give DLC owners blueprints for owned ships: if they want not throwaway ships but competitive (and may be someone really likes Hercules for example) they will be allowed to having to craft them as any other player.

I'm curious, where was the "competitive balance" demand when DLCs came out OP af? As is they are still more OP than their counterparts. I agree that these bonuses might be slightly too high and could be dropped, but it's imperative that DLCs do not become more OP again. They're already OP in that they are 1 click redeemables with fine woods while regular ships are practically stuck with lame woods. I'd suggest that the balance be a DLC ship with LO/WO and no port bonus should have equal stats as an Oak/Oak with port bonus. But ffs, do not make the Herc op again. It already has more guns, already has higher caliber guns, already has lower BR than ships with less guns, already turns better than any regular ship, and already sails upwind with a missing mast faster than any regular ship....and regular ship i mean its supposed craftable counterpart, i.e. other 5th rate light frigs.

[--Privateer--]

13 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

while regular ships are practically stuck with lame woods

This needs to be fixed BEFORE DLCs get port bonuses.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

I'm curious, where was the "competitive balance" demand when DLCs came out OP af? As is they are still more OP than their counterparts. I agree that these bonuses might be slightly too high and could be dropped, but it's imperative that DLCs do not become more OP again.

 

 I think DLC ships will fade to insignificance as port bonuses take hold.

 You thought DLC were OP.... man this is going to be hillarious watching the outcome of these port bonuses. Ships with maxed out port bonuses churning out at a pace of knots, plus refits, plus books.... oh my. 

 Of course the bonuses can be lowered for ports but balance will again need to be addressed accross refits and books also would be my guess.

 Rebalancing all this isn't something i would relish doing.

 

 Just out of curiousity has anyone worked out the max speed you can get a frankenstein first rate up to with all buffs now?

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dibbler

[Oli Garchy]

3 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

 

 I think DLC ships will fade to insignificance as port bonuses take hold.

 You thought DLC were OP.... man this is going to be hillarious watching the outcome.

DLC ships arent op due to their stats but due to the vast amount of ships you can acquire compared to a non dlc ship user, crafting is a joke currently 

sailing  a variety of a ships is a big part of the appeal for this game. limiting the number of ships you can, sail, risk, lose and worst by blocking them behind a grind wall of permits rare woods, not to mention all the other factors that make the current crafting system a fail.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

2 minutes ago, Oli Garchy said:

DLC ships arent op due to their stats but due to the vast amount of ships you can acquire compared to a non dlc ship user, crafting is a joke currently 

sailing  a variety of a ships is a big part of the appeal for this game. limiting the number of ships you can, sail, risk, lose and worst by blocking them behind a grind wall of permits rare woods, not to mention all the other factors that make the current crafting system a fail.

 

 Wait until port craft bonuses are maxed out lol,  how many oak/oak super buffed ships can you make per day?

 All with +5% speed, +10% turn, +20% hull, crew transfer bonuses, sail bonuses.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dibbler

[Oli Garchy]

3 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

 

 Wait until port craft bonuses are maxed out lol,  how many oak/oak super buffed ships can you make per day?

 All with +5% speed, +10% turn, +20% hull, crew transfer bonuses, sail bonuses.

so you completely didnt read what i wrote?

[Dibbler (Retired)]

9 minutes ago, Oli Garchy said:

so you completely didnt read what i wrote?

 

 I did read what you wrote :).

" DLC ships arent op due to their stats but due to the vast amount of ships you can acquire compared to a non dlc ship user, crafting is a joke currently 

sailing  a variety of a ships is a big part of the appeal for this game. limiting the number of ships you can, sail, risk, lose and worst by blocking them behind a grind wall of permits rare woods, not to mention all the other factors that make the current crafting system a fail."

 

 With new bonuses wood type will matter much less than the port bonuses I think. As for permits they said will remove most from permit wall leaving 10 or so, not sure if has been actioned yet as not looked at craft. Personally i think game was better before DLC, permit wall, rare woods, rare ships etc.... but I tend to be resistant to change, guess see how plays out overall.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dibbler

[William Death]

23 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

Just out of curiousity has anyone worked out the max speed you can get a frankenstein first rate up to with all buffs now?

I did  

According to the map tool, its 13.0 on a fir/fir/sailing bonus 4 Victory. If you run copper, naval clock, and Elite Spanish Rig, then add Art of Shiphandling and Speed Trim books.

Pretty quick. The rig bonus should add another 1.4kn or so.... but then  you subtract maybe .4kn for cannons and reps (just guessing); leaves you around 14kn.

Which is about 5% faster than my ancient speedfit Victory, veteran of countless seal clubbing adventures over the many months I've had the joy of sailing her. Good times.

 

Just remember though, the speedfit SOLs are not the real problem. Because, unless you've got some garbage build on your ship, or let yourself get tagged straight downwind of them, then you'll ditch them if you run upwind, every time. Yeah, its silly to see a 15kn Bellona run down light ships. But if they'd turn upwind, they'll outrun him.

 

Truly though, I think port bonuses are going to need to be nerfed, or else we'll end up with some super ridiculous builds. Like 15.4kn Teak/WO Endymions. Or 12.8kn LO/WO Constitutions with LOL HP and thickness too. I can't wait to build mine!

 

I state it again: make all woods farmable in any captured port. Reduce max bonuses from one end of the wood spectrum to the other to +/- 10%,  have all port bonuses be +/- 5% from base stats.

Simple, effective. Nobody can complain they can't get a decent ship. Nobody can cry "DLC ships OP because woods pls nerf" or anything of the like. When everybody can get a decent ship,  then everybody can afford to lose a decent ship. PvP goes up, players are happier. 

[--Privateer--]

1 hour ago, Routan said:

With new port bonus you only need Oak Oak to make better ships.

I think you over estimate the new port bonus, they can't get oak/oak anywhere close to live oak for thickness.

[SantaRoja]

I think the only thing pp are asking to devs is to made captain skill decisive again.

#skillfirst

[Licinio Chiavari]

4 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

This needs to be fixed BEFORE DLCs get port bonuses.

Reasonable point.

If the policy will be keeping fine woods very rare, allow redeemable only with basic woods (so oak, fir and crew space) but give player owning them BP for them: allowing to craft them as he prefers.

So finally we will put an end to P2W whining crap... And there will be more balanced room for more DLCs without destroying game economy.

[Sir Loorkon]

I think DLC owners should have an option either to redeem a note that can be converted into a fine wood ship without portbonus or a permit that will require proper crafting and get the port bonus. 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think DLC owners should have an option either to redeem a note that can be converted into a fine wood ship without portbonus or a permit that will require proper crafting and get the port bonus. 

good suggestion

[Hawkwood]

50 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think DLC owners should have an option either to redeem a note that can be converted into a fine wood ship without portbonus or a permit that will require proper crafting and get the port bonus. 

That would be even more P2W.

[Sir Loorkon]

1 minute ago, Hawkwood said:

That would be even more P2W.

What is your solution?

[Hawkwood]

2 hours ago, SantaRoja said:

I think the only thing pp are asking to devs is to made captain skill decisive again.

#skillfirst

Skill first? In order to do that you would have to balance the wood chars to the point where better woods compared to less better make only +/-1 %. In the Caribbean where everyone can have everything, you wouldn´t need LO/WO/Teak anymore. On the other hand, balancing all woods chars to the point where it does not matter which woods you use, RVR would again become boring, because why fighting and conquering ports if there is actually nothing to gain?

This is just another vicious circle.Either way, not good for the game.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Hawkwood said:

Skill first? In order to do that you would have to balance the wood chars to the point where better woods compared to less better make only +/-1 %. In the Caribbean where everyone can have everything, you wouldn´t need LO/WO/Teak anymore. On the other hand, balancing all woods chars to the point where it does not matter which woods you use, RVR would again become boring, because why fighting and conquering ports if there is actually nothing to gain?

This is just another vicious circle.Either way, not good for the game.

So what is your solution?

[Angus MacDuff]

2 hours ago, SantaRoja said:

I think the only thing pp are asking to devs is to made captain skill decisive again.

#skillfirst

I agree with you that skill should be the determining factor in battle, but how to do that here?  Access to all materials for a better ship of course.  This brings in other problems such as the already mentioned "reason" for RVR.  In this regard I would suggest that RVR must be an economic imperative and strategic positioning requirement.  This is all already happening with these new mechanics.  The "frontline" mentality will mean that RVR is necessary to protect your own security, and our clan economies will be tied closely with our fortresses.  Hopefully this will allow the devs to loosen up on the rarity of woods and other resources....allowing smaller clans and solos a portion of the good stuff. 

[SantaRoja]

6 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

Skill first? In order to do that you would have to balance the wood chars to the point where better woods compared to less better make only +/-1 %. In the Caribbean where everyone can have everything, you wouldn´t need LO/WO/Teak anymore. On the other hand, balancing all woods chars to the point where it does not matter which woods you use, RVR would again become boring, because why fighting and conquering ports if there is actually nothing to gain?

This is just another vicious circle.Either way, not good for the game.

yes skill first, either by nerfing bonuses and tightening the stack.

i know the fight for rare resources are the reasons cause people do RvR but the bonus shouldn't make the game unbalanced.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Hawkwood said:

That would be even more P2W.

How?

[Hawkwood]

1 hour ago, SantaRoja said:

yes skill first, either by nerfing bonuses and tightening the stack.

i know the fight for rare resources are the reasons cause people do RvR but the bonus shouldn't make the game unbalanced.

Because no matter what you do as a developer, in my opinion the end would be the wag the dog situation..

1. Balance the woods in order that "skill matter", like Santa Roja suggested to the point where all attributes of all woods won´t matter(+/-1%), there will be no motivation for..

2. RVR, which will eventually die(again) from boredom and saturation, because there is no motivation for getting the LO/WO/Teak ports. So if you want to balance this madness(meta) of..

3. LO/WO/Teak, you need enough ports for all nations in the whole Caribbean, otherwise some are having huge advantage, the others will be crippled at release. But then..

4. Having enough of all LO/WO/Teak ports, the RVR motivation goes down, which is a matter of time, because always the same reason for RVR? So balance the woods, and then...

5. Back to point 1....

There is an urgent need for another reason/motivation to do RVR.( and port bonusses aren´t a motivation enough, since any nation can have those)

This is another vicious circle that needs to be broken, by having this "another reason to do RVR". Not found yet.

(wrote this in another topic)