How to fix DLC ships without changing DLCs

[Dalai Lama]

My suggestion deals with the biggest concern of many people about DLC ships giving a too big advantage (rare woods/redeemable) of those who doesn't own a DLC.

So everyone who owns a DLC can redeem his ship every 24 hrs and that is something less likely to be changed as it has been sold/advertised that way from the start.

A way to close the gap between those owning a dlc and those who don't will be done by the new port update giving access to easy replaceable boats to clans owning a port, wich is good in my opinion, but not enough.

An additional way, without changing the dlc in a negative way for those already owning one, could be to make dlc ships capturable. This way everyone could optain these ships by boarding them, no negative impact on the person owning the dlc as he lost it anyways (before would habe been sunk) and he can redeem it again after 24hrs.

Still keeps the boat rare to those not owning the dlc but gives access to them to everyone. Exploit could be easily limited through the boat being still not tradeable. E.g. only the person which captured it can keep it.

Maybe introduce even rare notes of them boats (single digit chance) to chests etc.

This would still leave the major advantage (redeem/24hrs) for those owning the dlc but would give the others the opportunity to "farm" those boats.

Maybe you have a better suggestions how to improve the impact of redeemable dlc ships without changing them?

Discuss...

 

 

[Vizzini]

Permit DLC 1 per day like the paint. Not a note. Mr 2 hours a day man could log on every day, grab himself a permit and have a few ships ready for the weekend when he has more time ( i'm looking at you sunday population) He crafts a santi , low quality materials using his permit , doesn't get a gold or purple and decides to sell it or use it.

 

most people understand we need the dlc's to work and to support the game, without them it would need a subscription

[Dalai Lama]

Agreed, as the OP stated I am suggesting ways to improve impact of DLC ships on eco/players/RvR etc. without changing DLCs themselves.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Henry Durnin

[Durin]

25 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Mr 2 hours a day man

i still dont understand why that man who doesnt have the time for a single battle (worst case 1,5h battle plus sailing towarts it and back = more then two hours) has to handycap himself by turning this into a singleplayer game? why not combine  his manhours with 9 other 2h-a-day-mans and suddently have the eco power of a 20h-a-day-man. with that he and the other 9 can get any ship without a problems. specially since he wont have the time to loose all those ships a 20h per day gameplay can provide them every day?

Edited April 11, 2019 by Durin

[Angus MacDuff]

32 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

Still keeps the boat rare to those not owning the dlc but gives access to them to everyone. Exploit could be easily limited through the boat being still not tradeable. E.g. only the person which captured it can keep it.

I come out in a cutter...my friend from another nation comes out in his DLC ship...we enter battle...he surrenders.  Trade complete.

DLC ships are here to stay and it is unfair to change them after purchase.  What needs to be changed is the ability of players to counter them with in game assets.  This could include being able to craft the DLC ships.  Or we can deal with what everyone is complaining about and remove the rare woods and permit problems.  DLC ships are not OP.  What they are is very convenient.  If building quality ships were made more convenient, nobody would have a valid reason to complain about the DLCs.

[LeBoiteux]

In our economic system, things can hardly be charged for some and free for others (apart from social assistance).

Also can't it be exploited ? DLC owners as free distributor of DLC ships ? A player with an ALT with DLC in an enemy nation 'fight' against his friends of his nation and 'lose'. He 'fights' against friends of an enemy nation and oops... lose. And a friend of his in this enemy nation will do the same for his nation.

My 2 cents. 🙂

Edited April 11, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Meraun]

Just remove Permit and make Rare woods a bit less rare and we are good to go

[Vizzini]

24 minutes ago, Koveras said:

That would change the DLC and give every buyer a refund option. Considering how much bad blood there is between the banned band of degenerates and devs I'd advice against a course of action that could entail a refund option.

a seperate dlc just for permits, how is that changing an existing dlc ?

 

you would still need the rest of the materials, the bonus would be, you get the permit you want, just like the paint dlc gives you the colour you want

 

the exisitng ship dlc's would not be affected as they give you the complete ship

 

or am I missing something

[Vizzini]

18 minutes ago, Durin said:

i still dont understand why that man who doesnt have the time for a single battle (worst case 1,5h battle plus sailing towarts it and back = more then two hours) has to handycap himself by turning this into a singleplayer game? why not combine  his manhours with 9 other 2h-a-day-mans and suddently have the eco power of a 20h-a-day-man. with that he and the other 9 can get any ship without a problems. specially since he wont have the time to loose all those ships a 20h per day gameplay can provide them every day?

forcing players to play a particular way has a strange habbit of forcing them out of the game. do you think everybody wants to team up with others ? are solo players not wanted in NA ?

[Vizzini]

24 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

Agreed, as the OP stated I am suggesting ways to improve impact of DLC ships on eco/players/RvR etc. without changing DLCs themselves.

a separate permit dlc in no way changes what is available right now. You are given the complete ship right now... not a permit used as part of the crafting process

[Vizzini]

22 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I come out in a cutter...my friend from another nation comes out in his DLC ship...we enter battle...he surrenders.  Trade complete.

DLC ships are here to stay and it is unfair to change them after purchase.  What needs to be changed is the ability of players to counter them with in game assets.  This could include being able to craft the DLC ships.  Or we can deal with what everyone is complaining about and remove the rare woods and permit problems.  DLC ships are not OP.  What they are is very convenient.  If building quality ships were made more convenient, nobody would have a valid reason to complain about the DLCs.

yeah not tradeable or capturable ( same thing in reality)

we cannot alter what is already available, we can add things to keep everybody happier

[Dalai Lama]

Sorry maybe I misunderstood, but I am still not sure what an additional Permit DLC along side the redeemable DLCs would achieve. 

Exploit is a problem but could be minimized by keeping those ships not tradeable.

Aga and Belle Poule are already good counters for DLC boats maybe there should be a cheap and accessible counter for each dlc boat... for the requin there is no counter or comparable boat e.g.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Henry Durnin

[Dalai Lama]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The problem is the contrast. Black and White.

 

DLCs: zero economy required.

Crafting ships: Full working economy of farming minions= permits/luck opening chests+reals+doubloons+risks delivering resources

I cannot agree 100%.

dlc ships still require cannons and repairs.

RNG premits as being a different topic, I don't like so many ships being behind a RNG wall as well. Randomness is not very rewarding. But Random permits shouldn't include DLC competitor boats, and we have already a counter like aga vs ratvissan in place, but maybe in need of some further balancing with doub costs etc. 

[John Cavanaugh]

2 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

I cannot agree 100%.

dlc ships still require cannons and repairs.

 

cannons and repairs, like Oak/Oak and Fir/Fir non-permit ships (eg aggy) can be clicked out with little to no effort. You cannot say the same for any permit requiring ship, or any ship built with woods other than oak or fir. The exorbitant costs associated with rare woods due to the clan, doubloon, and port constraint bottlenecking on that aspect of the economy has lead to those woods being completely unavailable to most players (read - anyone outside of a small handful of clans). Teak/White oak Ratt with mediums costs you what, 20k reales to gun and outfit? that Oak/Oak Aggy with mediums still cost close to double, and is drastically inferior. a Teak/White Aggy, the closest comparison to the Ratt, would cost you upwards of several million reales to produce, if you can even find someone willing to sell you the requisite woods

20k vs X millions, cannons and repairs are a drop in the bucket.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Im not so sure about the results of an aga vs ratt duel.

On paper the aga should win (not by a great margin btw) but those 10 chasers on the ratt are a great advantage.

true, if the rattvisan comes behind the aga it can just sit behind it and grape it, the only thing the aga can do is to tack to avoid it but will eventually get boarded. But if it avoids getting in front of the rattvisan it should be quite equal

[Tom Farseer]

2 hours ago, Henry Durnin said:

Still keeps the boat rare to those not owning the dlc but gives access to them to everyone. Exploit could be easily limited through the boat being still not tradeable. E.g. only the person which captured it can keep it.

Can easily be exploited. All one needs is a friend (or Alt) in a different Nation and a quiet spot to "trade" eg. Capture the ship in  battle instance.

[Capitalism]

Since they’re blowing up econ and crafting anyway, and DLCs are not going to change, I feel like our time would be better spent lobbying to make all AI ships, 3rd rate and under capturable, and return all ships (even those with permits and DLC) to be found in AI fleets.

This would hugely lower the bar for all players to have access to these ships. It would even the playing field a lot between those with fancy woods and the DLC ships, while also motivating people to go out, find and cap nice AI builds and put them up for sale. 

There would still be motivation to have the DLC for convenience and to build non-crew space, purpose-built ships, but for general PvP your captured Bellona or Trinco would probably be just fine.

[PG Monkey]

You can't fix something if it's not broken

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, PG Monkey said:

You can't fix something if it's not broken

What is broken is the advantage that DLC players have over non-DLC players where it comes to quality of woods and convenience of replacement.  A player with a T/WO Rattvisan can replace his ship every day (if he's smart, he'll have a couple in port).  A non-DLC player with a T/WO Agamemnon may not be able to replace his ship at all. 

[Dalai Lama]

2 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

What is broken is the advantage that DLC players have over non-DLC players where it comes to quality of woods and convenience of replacement.  A player with a T/WO Rattvisan can replace his ship every day (if he's smart, he'll have a couple in port).  A non-DLC player with a T/WO Agamemnon may not be able to replace his ship at all. 

For me theres two major problems with rare woods at the moment.

One is price, 10 doubs per log is a lot considering the latest changes to missions. With doubs being limiting factor not sure how much will drip into the open market.

The second is that all woods have the same rarity except fir and oak, even inferior ones like sabicu or cagurian.

 

[jodgi]

5 hours ago, Henry Durnin said:

but not enough.

Your entire topic hinges on this but you don't bother to explain why "it's not enough".

[Angus MacDuff]

29 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

For me theres two major problems with rare woods at the moment.

One is price, 10 doubs per log is a lot considering the latest changes to missions.

Price only becomes a factor if you have access to the item.  Many won't.

[Dalai Lama]

1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Price only becomes a factor if you have access to the item.  Many won't.

Well if price and amount is balanced clans will feed the free market to get some additional income for sure

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Remove the chance to be a purple or gold and have the traits like agile and such. Have them be a plain three slot blue ship.

[Greysteak]

Or remove the ability to redeem them in anything except oak or fir and crew space.