Naval Action DLC model vs IL-2 Sturmovik or DCS - some things needs adjusting

[BloodyRaven]

At the beginning I would like to assure you that I have really enjoyed and do still enjoy playing Naval Action, but I have to address some concerns about latest ship DLCs. I’m aware how the games business works and that you are trying to introduce in NA model from other eastern games, like IL-2 Sturmovik or DCS (premium planes). I fully accept that and I even accept the high prices… except for one thing.

In both of the mentioned games when I decide to buy a plane I’m receiving a fully equipped plane, with the same capabilities as any other plane of the same type which was bought by other players. In the event of a PvP confrontation only player skills decide who will be victorious. In our present reality in NA I’m receiving a ship which is missing few extremely important pieces, like guns and upgrades of my choosing. This basically means that someone who payed this high price for a ship will still have to grind for hours to buy proper things to equip the ship, to be able to PvP and fight as an equal against other players. And we have to do this every time we lose a purchased ship.

In my opinion this is a huge problem. Some people have more time, some less, some are more wealthy some less, and the game should provide each groups with the necessary means to be able to play together. So if you have time and don’t want to spend cash you should be able to get resources and craft any ship you want with all possible upgrades. On the other side if you treat this game as a way to have 1-2h of fun after work and have no problem with spending money, you can buy DLC with a ship and ALL critical equipment – maybe not in elite versions of refits but still with at least moderate versions. You are paying for one ship a price which is higher than the price of the game – please do not force people to grind and buy stuff every time they lose it.

 

Forever yours – Bloody 😊

[Beeekonda]

Getting free guns is a bit too much

1. Choice: Every player has its own preferences and specific builts. The devs will have to either spawn those ships with max caliber medium guns, which beats the purpose of free guns OR let players to chose what guns they want on their ships. The later will lead to 2nd point
2. You can redeem DLC just to spawn cannons, take them off to use on another ship, and sell/break down DLC ship. 
3. As a workaround Devs can make those 'spawned' guns BASIC like basic meds on BC so they will be only fit to DLC ships, but still thats too muhc

 

[Meraun]

it already way to easy to get a Ship with rare Woods via DLC. Giving it Cannons, upgrades and repairs of your choosing woud completely kill the Eco . Unlike the games you mention, in this game, ships are supposed to be crafted.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Meraun

[Beeekonda]

2 minutes ago, Meraun said:

it already why to easy to get a Ship with rare Woods via DLC. Giving it Cannons, upgrades and repairs of your choosing woud completely kill the Eco even more. Unlike the games you mention, in this game, ships are supposed to be crafted.

[Meraun]

1 minute ago, Routan said:

I belive we soon will see an upgrade dlc, so don’t think it will be part of the ship dlc. 

Cannons and repair would ofc be nice, that said it dosen’t take much effort to either craft your self just buy, but would be nice to have for the 2 hour man.

 

i'am a two hour man, and these Cannons are my main Source of Income. I hope they never add redeemable Guns and Upgrades. I mean, why no make a Arena game in the First place if they dom taht.

[Njord]

Then again you don't have to gather resources and build your planes in IL-2 Sturmvoik, now do you? The DLC ships already bypass and undermine the mmo core mechanics like crafting, trading and resource acquisition so yeah might aswell go full pay2win and give it guns, repairs and upgrades aswell.

In arena games where the loss of battle and vehicles does not matter much, DLC ships work perfectly when balanced but it simply does not mix with the concept of NA ( only Legends not OW anyways ).

How can you expect people on one side to dedicate a large amount of time to grind for ships in a game that they already paid 40 bucks for, when the other player just poofs his ships into existence? Even if both players own all DLC ships, why should either of them use crafted ships? That would be a loss of resources, when they could have used a DLC ship instead.

[BloodyRaven]

It's simple - time is money. Some peeps have time, some have money. I do not want to waste my time, but I can easily waste my money. Other may say that they don't want to waste cash, but have time at their disposal. Devs need only allow them to craft ships which others can buy. 

[Meraun]

Just now, BloodyRaven said:

. Devs need only allow them to craft ships which others can buy. 

Ehm, tahts the Case?

[BloodyRaven]

1 minute ago, Meraun said:

Ehm, tahts the Case?

Agree Meraun. But also I do not want to pay for a ship this crazy price and than be forced to grind cash to buy proper upgrades. Give me fully equipped ship. 

[Meraun]

5 minutes ago, BloodyRaven said:

Agree Meraun. But also I do not want to pay for a ship this crazy price and than be forced to grind cash to buy proper upgrades. Give me fully equipped ship. 

But taht woud kill all Crafting aka the whole Eco System. So no, meduim, guns are cheap anyway.

[BloodyRaven]

Upgrades mean - copper plating, french rig refit, carpenters etc.  

[Slim McSauce]

But NA is an Open world MMO with a player economy, so not really comparable to IL2, WoT or War Thunder which is a lobby-based MMO.
The same models that work in lobbies would kill an open world game, because you undermine player economy so much that it falls apart.
DLC ships kills ship crafting, and DLC cannons, guns, would just make the game more p2w and market would cease to exist.
You're basically saying kill off the game for a quick buck, which I mean, is already happening. Just look at the reviews. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[BloodyRaven]

 

25 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

But NA is an Open world MMO with a player economy, so not really comparable to IL2, WoT or War Thunder which is a lobby-based MMO.
The same models that work in lobbies would kill an open world game, because you undermine player economy so much that it falls apart.
DLC ships kills ship crafting, and DLC cannons, guns, would just make the game more p2w and market would cease to exist.
You're basically saying kill off the game for a quick buck, which I mean, is already happening. Just look at the reviews. 

What can I say. I see negative reviews and I also see in game world full of players with normal crafted ships, DLC flags, DLC ships and DLC paints... so.... 

[jodgi]

We're at a point where even I cringe.

[Beeekonda]

Why am I seeing  "player [based] economy". Things dead in this game (because of the players)

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

We're at a point where even I cringe.

I agree

Edited April 9, 2019 by Beeekonda

[Meraun]

25 minutes ago, BloodyRaven said:

What can I say. I see negative reviews and I also see in game world full of players with normal crafted ships, DLC flags, DLC ships and DLC paints... so.... 

If this comes, they may as well shut down the Servers. i mean wahts the point of RvR and Ressourves then? if even @jodgi and myself cringe by the tought of it, i means something.. we are usually accused of beeing yey-sayers 🙂

[balticsailor]

26 minutes ago, jodgi said:

We're at a point where even I cringe.

Oh no, see what you did there you even went to far for jodgi.

Shame they didn't take the upgrade system form NAL and brought it to NA: OW. I have to say i like the artwork and love to detail in all the refit, upgrades and so on, but they should put more time and effort in balancing all that stuff properly.... 

[BloodyRaven]

51 minutes ago, jodgi said:

We're at a point where even I cringe.

Sorry mate  I really understand you and all economy/crafting related arguments. 

But still, if NA devs are forcing me to spend crazy cash for ships, I do not want to waste my time grinding cash for upgrades. It's simple as that. 

[Ligatorswe]

29 minutes ago, BloodyRaven said:

Sorry mate  I really understand you and all economy/crafting related arguments. 

But still, if NA devs are forcing me to spend crazy cash for ships, I do not want to waste my time grinding cash for upgrades. It's simple as that. 

I am trying to think of one game where it is not mandatory to grind in one sense when you get premium vehicles. Grind crew, modules or such. I cant think of one. (Wws, wot, war thunder etc)

Nevertheless, that will NOT function here. This game has a market, and that marketsystem has to be upheld.

Mediumguns are good, you can buy them. Then move out and kill something!

[jodgi]

12 minutes ago, BloodyRaven said:

forcing me

That's a construed argument.

If you and just one or two friends set up production you will be set up for lower total cost ships than DLC users. You'd have to spend an evening or two setting it up, but once that's done you'll never have to grind anything unless you want to.

I'll do this going forward. The caveat is I have to give up on always going out with the best stuff. It is a change of heart for me, but I guess the eco sandbox has broken me finally.

Even shitty oak/oak ships work for those who go out to fight win or lose. If you win you gain stuff, if you lose you get almost everything back.

Listen, there is hope for Legends down the road. The DLC experiment shows how Legends would finance itself without causing so many panties to bunch up.

[Vizzini]

40 minutes ago, BloodyRaven said:

 

But still, if NA devs are forcing me to spend crazy cash for ships

yeah , this I cannot agree with. Like me you have a choice whether to purchase a DLC  or not.

I won't purchase any until the game is released and I can see what game I have paid for. Throwing more money at the game right now seems pointless, especially if it ends up as some crap arena game with the OW as a lobby.

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

You do the final exam, buy a dlc ship (if the pandora is not enough for you) you get a naval clock and enough repairs to sail for quite some time.

Even by buying medium cannons from stores you will probably never run out of money to the point you can't go out & fight anymore... and if you do, a simple passenger delivery will solve that in a few minute of you time.

 

Don't you want a DLC for teleporting into already started combat instance too ?

Edited April 9, 2019 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Socialism]

This brings up an interesting question.  Should you have to grind slots on a ship you paid cash for?  I’m trying to think how WoWs does it, and I’m pretty sure you get a ranked up commander with every ship purchase... which would be our equivalent of slots I suppose.  You also get some doubloons in WoWs and dock space.  

It’d be an interesting twist with our DLCs to include XP up to say 2/3 slots and 1 extra dock space (over 30).  Might make them seem a little more reasonably priced. 

[Teutonic]

We have already broken the unwritten MMO economy rule...

Look I get it. You don't want to waste time.

But the economy and having players go through the economy to get stuff is literally the basic foundation of an MMO! I cannot accept your suggestion and if this happened then I and many others still clinging on to this game to play will leave. It'a irritating enough that a dlc owner can just pop a ship ever 24 hours where others have to still mingle in the economy.

What people like you want is a battle instance like wot or warthunder. That gameplay is fine! But it 100% doesn't work in the current NA we have.

I'd love small battles to come back though...

Edited April 9, 2019 by Teutonic

[Guest]

an actual smart move would be to make the game F2P and having alot of comsetics as purchaseable in packages.