NPC Combat feedback

[admin]

Captains

We started pushing new philosophy into NPC combat.

Previous design: combat perfomance ok, sailing very good, no weak spots
New design: Weak spots, bad sailing combined with strong shooting. 

Previous combat was more boring. NPCs did not have weak spots, could not even rake the NPC ship if his rank was high. You either outDPS the npc or they outDPSed you. 

Now it will be better, we started to reduce turning and sailing abilities that give the opportunity to avoid the NPC shots. If you can avoid the NPC shooting you can destroy it by raking. You can further increase enemy weak spots by applying chain to sails. (slowing them down even more)

If you fight AI often - please report your findings and suggestions of further improvement the depth of combat against NPCs and their AI.

Elite NPCs will also come soon into the game. 

 

Please report your impressions on new NPC combat. 

[Lovec1990]

Can you explain weak spots?

[AeRoTR]

Only problem is, did you nerf their laser accuracy of cannons ? If they have more firepower, with new damage model, they will be more of a problem with single shot laser accuracy shots.

I remember my AGA against another big NPC, while I was kiting, he was continously shooting my stern, red rudder evey 2 minutes plus, all shots on target, penetrated, and he sniped more than 100 crew with single shot cannon balls by hitting my stern. So this was the old damage model, I can not imagine what happens if accuracy stayed with new damage model.

[Aster]

Npcs do not know that they can fire their guns in boarding. This make boarding npcs trivial even with no boarding mods.

[DevsGoFluckYourselves]

Kindly Delete This Account

Edited July 31, 2020 by KindlyDeleteThisAccount

[toblerone]

One question: by "strong shooting" you mean more reload/frequency, more accuracy or … all of them

[LeBoiteux]

44 minutes ago, admin said:

New design: Weak spots, bad sailing combined with strong shooting. 

I do prefer this new design that really feels less mechanical, more natural and interesting.

As for suggestion, I'll think it over.

51 minutes ago, admin said:

Elite NPCs will also come soon into the game. 

+1.

[Fluffy Fishy]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Elite NPCs will also come soon into the game.

How will they compare to the difficulty level from that patch in 2016(?) where the AI was ramped up to be a tougher fight than most humans? I'd love to see that level of difficulty return, especially as their AI model is refined to behave in a more natural way.

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, admin said:

NPCs did not have weak spots, could not even rake the NPC ship if his rank was high. You either outDPS the npc or they outDPSed you. 

From my experience (starting January of 2018) that never was the case. NPC always shot too early, making angling very easy and predictable (A typical fault of many newer players as well, btw. Lack of patience .) I also regularly outturned even lower class NPC ships by anticipating their next turn and starting early.

Will give further feedback after testing PvE fights over next few days...

[n_Ka]

NPC loves to get beached

^^ true, but isn't bad to trap it in the beach, i make that many time when the IA is biggest

[Holm Hansen]

sorry, but i think the previous philosophy was better

If the NPCs outmaneuver me, it's up to myself. And i know what was going wrong.

 

But strong shooting (if improved cannon stats are meant), is something you can not estimate before. And to estimate that in advance plays a very important role here, in the decision to attack something. Here in this game and even in those days in reality.

And the whole multiplies with the abilities of elite npc ...

 

Also, in fleet battles while looting, you cannot avoid to take some hits, if you want the loot. It will be more worse then before with strong shooting.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Holm Hansen
addition

[Shrez]

NPC's are way to strong that's my feedback.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Shrez

[DevsGoFluckYourselves]

Kindly Delete This Account

Edited July 31, 2020 by KindlyDeleteThisAccount

[Bubba Smith]

I have found the NPC mechanic is good and certainly more challenging, honestly I do like it. Their jibbing or coming about into wind direction exposing a stern is a good programming advantage IF one is in the right position of course. Chaining sails gives a big advantage over NPCs and shouldn't be under estimated.  I have found that engagement position is very important at the start of the battle give the attacker the "gauge" from the onset. I'll keep at em and report back later. 

 

 

[DjTheBarbon]

The ai has clearly some major advantages :
- the reload speed is absurd and can easily surpass a ship with extra rum and 2 books of reload;
- the fire angle is sometimes impossible and you can loose half of your flank just because the AI has some sort of turrets;
- the boarding system is still such a pain,you must continue to keep the distance otherwise,if your speed is 3.5 kn or less,you are sucked by the istant boarding and istant preparation that in most of the cases will lead to a huge failure (because with the number of marines there is no hope different from a desperate disengage).
- the damage is not clear,sometimes you fire perfectly with a 2^ rate a 3^ rate and in result you do less damage even in double shot.

Personally I like to hunt down AI fleets with friends and I would like to have a fair fight.

[Zlatkowar]

2 hours ago, DjTheBarbon said:

The ai has clearly some major advantages :
- the reload speed is absurd and can easily surpass a ship with extra rum and 2 books of reload;
- the fire angle is sometimes impossible and you can loose half of your flank just because the AI has some sort of turrets;

Agree with that. I hate your new philosophy, plain and simple. There's my feedback.

You already gave AI a thousand advantages, theres no need to add more like the penetration change and whatever you did related to your post here. Sailing almost parallel to enemy bullets trajectory and they still penetrate... Come on. Meanwhile half my shots bounce off at a perfect angle. So much fun!

Seriously, I just convinced a few friends to come back to the game. Please don't ruin it...

[LeBoiteux]

Combat strategy

• I'd like to see some NPCs trying to demast and destroy sails.

bot kill missions

• random positioning of the ships in relation with each others (location, direction) and with the wind
• separate kill missions for shallow 9-pders (shallow frigates, LRQ, niagara...) and for deep water 5th-rate frigates (12-pders  and above)

Edited April 6, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Barbancourt]

22 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Combat strategy

• I'd like to see some NPCs trying to demast and destroy sails.

Hell NO.  We don't need the AI mast-sniping with their laser cannons.  It's already worse than it should be with players doing it.

 

[Aster]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

Combat strategy

• I'd like to see some NPCs trying to demast and destroy sails.

It would be comical to see how long it takes the AI firing double ball out of their carronades around corners to demast a ship.

[Aerospace]

I really can not understand what is trying to achieved by DEVs. 

I feel like they spend time on, 

* Trying to fix what is not broken. 

* Trying to fix what is partialy broken, making it totaly broken. 

* Introducing DLCs. 

Give us a break, and do not make stuff more difficult, this is a GAME, not a Job! 

I exchanged broadsides on a half wounded Victory in my L'Ocean. Guess what I noticed he has like double dps while I had gunnery enc., ins. aux cann. and old flag officer. I had to pull away cause he was gonna sink my lo/wo 100cm thick ship

[Petrel_]

For my opinion the AI is to much strong now, yesterday I have been in a fight with a LO/WO Agamenmon against two Belle Poule, and it was necessary to repair the ship, for me it is not the big problem but needs also to think about new players without any mods and books. It is already difficult to craft a good ship, if new players will lose it in a such easy way the will be very disappointed about and not try again. 

[LeBoiteux]

9 minutes ago, Petrel (LIONS) said:

For my opinion the AI is to much strong now, yesterday I have been in a fight with a LO/WO Agamenmon against two Belle Poule, and it was necessary to repair the ship

IMHO I think it normal to have to repair against 2 Belle Poule.

[Zlatkowar]

- do not engage in personal quarrels. use report and leave it be - the moderation team - 

AI Ships could be equipped with water guns, if devs boost them enough to compensate for whatever reason they will still hit and feel like Mark 7 guns. Making the AI that much more difficult and unbalanced is turning this game into a fantasy game. This is the sad part. You get a strong build, a quality ship (purple/gold), you upgrade it with mods, you unlock all knowledge slots... And then you engage the same ship which just happens to live under different rules / in another dimension and you still get rekt. How fair is that?

[LeBoiteux]

4 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

AI Ships could be equipped with water guns, if devs boost them enough to compensate for whatever reason they will still hit and feel like Mark 7 guns. Making the AI that much more difficult and unbalanced is turning this game into a fantasy game. This is the sad part. You get a strong build, a quality ship (purple/gold), you upgrade it with mods, you unlock all knowledge slots... And then you engage the same ship which just happens to live under different rules / in another dimension and you still get rekt. How fair is that?

I play against NA bots till the beginning (Sea trials) and I don't see the current AI as 'much more difficult', 'unbalanced' or not 'fair' as you wrote.

Bots have as Admin wrote in OP 'weak spots, bad sailing combined with strong shooting' (that is certainly partly due to the new damage model).

Thus it is easier to outmaneuvered them and rake them but, on the other hand, in a fair fight (ie about the same BR) if you make too many mistakes (say 3), you can get into big trouble.

Now you can be sunk sometimes. It may happen. But really not too often. In PvE fights, the current rate of human player mortality certainly remains quite low compared to the PvP fights.

On the plus side, the current PvE fights are funnier, a bit less mechanical and depend a bit more on your sailing skills.

My 2 cents 🙂

[toblerone]

I am quite skilled in PVE. I took a basic cutter (no books and no upgrades, oak wood if I recall correctly) and engaged a single NPC cutter outside my capital city.

Result: if I had not boarded the enemy ship, he would have sunk me.

My feedback: these NPCs are way too strong, at least at low level.

Edited April 7, 2019 by toblerone