No Reinforcement Zones!!!!

[Sir Texas Sir]

31 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Back on topic:

I wouldn't mind if there was a reinfocement zone of some sort near national capitals. But brits have survived in the past without Capital Area protection and will survive again if they have clans that are willing to recruit players and teach them how to survive in the harsh world that lies outside of their comfy and uncaptureable ports.

Russia is "Hard" because there you have to build everything from scratch yourself. You have to work together, regardless of differences and language barriers. Britain is easy because a small empire is already there at the start, and expansion is easy in any direction. Just because Russians have learned to see past our own clans and collaborate, doesn't make anything easy. Only possible.

I think the zones are good for the casuals and newbs.  Who cares if some RA wants to grind fleetss in them.  They wouldn't be a good fight anyway if you caught them out side as most guys like that are total scrubs in a fight. It's more about making the salt of taking away the goodies from such players.  

Honestly I'm surprised as big as GB has been on both servers back when we had PvP2/Global how weak they always have seem cause the clans just don't want to work together.  I wish I copy that stats of the nations pops @adminposted a while back. I was really suprsied just how small US was compared to other nations. GB and Pirates seem to be the top two that should have problems holding there own.  Though I'm wondering after release if it's going to stay as stale as it is now or will there be new fire of life sparked into every one to fight/rvr/PvP each other.

[Barbarosa]

In most cases strong will always try to dominate, abuse the weak. Isn't it too naive to expect from experienced players to guide and protect new players?
Law exist to protect the weak from strong. Don't leave new players to the mercy of their seal clubbers. Protect them by system and design.

Definitely not with stupid capital safe zones.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Barbarosa

[Hullabaloo]

36 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Then recruit the new players in Brit chat into your clan so you can teach them what to do and where to go to be moderately safe.

Brit clans do that all the time, continually.

38 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Meanwhile, how many different clans joined Brits since HAVOC started winning PBs for them? I could start counting, but I want to finish this post today.

Russia has recruited almost exclusively players and clans that we have played with before and wanted to play with again. How many of the new British clans since last September had a relationship beforehand?

I have no idea, HAVOC are not a Brit clan really as well you know. They do little for Brits, they were Swedish, Dutch now Brit and in a few weeks Danish, and HAVOC players openly acknowledge they have no interest in Brit nation. Although there's nothing wrong with that imo 

You call it  'collaboration', others might call it a 'clique'? A core group of players who rather than fight each other to create 'content' , group together to 'farm' noobs and some of whom (on the few occasions they do get sunk) complain that you were not 'supposed' to attack them!

I have respect for HAVOC cos they fight and they win and they don't need to hide behind the coat tails of other clans to do it.  I don't want to get into this my nation is better than yours nonsense anyway, it make no sense to me anyway, they are all the same. Brit clans are every bit as encouraging to new players as anyone else as far as I've seen, they are just in different circumstances as I have already explained.

Yes, you have to overcome a language barrier, I will give you that.

 

45 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

You wish. No thanks.

I put a lol after that, because of course you don't. Why would anyone? Precisely my point.

[Hullabaloo]

2 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Sorry, Hulla. You opened this thread

No mate. I opened a thread on Reinforcement Zones, you turned it into a discussion about different nations. It is a problem (IF it is one) about the game. GB and Pirates are unique in that they are overwhelmingly the first nation people choose when they first play the game (and its the middle of the map). That is the ONLY difference. What other difference do you think there could possibly be? You are just better?

[Hullabaloo]

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

to correct you here

I stand corrected, that may be your view. Problem is, I know some HAVOC members and that's not what they said.

Anyway I give up this has gone completely off topic. It's better to save all this for the National News bit (which I never read), I don't want to do the politics anyway and am annoyed at myself for getting drawn into it.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Hullabaloo

[Dibbler (Retired)]

24 minutes ago, rediii said:

Problem of that "protect yojr noobs" thing is that it is painfully boring and ineffective to do it. You either wait and bore out or can only react and chase someone who will most likely be in the fastest ship possible.

I did try it for a while. You end up sailing behind a sealclubber withut the chance to engage. He cant get away from you either do. So you have a situation where your enemy and you just chase until one gives up.

 

 Yes thats generally what happens .

 Raiding  solo in small ships used to be a mighty chase then as players give up try and tag the last one wanting to leave and kill. The number of times i was chased from US coast by a swarm of 5th rates after sinking someone in a fast snow, often all the way to   shallows of Bermuda.   If you want people to react from a capital you have to make them assume is an easy win, is how greg and other small ship captains got so much action. Now though i suspect most small ship raiding is a forgotten heroic past only peformed by the suicidal .

 Difference was though i would turn up in a snow, prince or light frigate... not the spanish armada lol. Watching a fleet of 5-6 guys in 1st rates outside kpr wondering why nobody wants to engage their port battle fleet (especially with new damage model) is amusing.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Dibbler

[Hullabaloo]

10 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Be fair. You're only doing what brings you fun. Helping noobs to become experienced players is no fun but a lot of work. That's why I always will honor players like Sveno, Fury, Benabib and others who helped you and me to get a good start.

Exactly, it's a lot of work! and you put that work in and they just find another game anyway! so that work is wasted. One way around that is to wait until you find a player that has shown a lot of interest in the game and is more likely to stick around. You can't just go recruiting random noobs and 'training' them, you would go mad! and that goes TRIPLE with experienced Brit players!

[Dibbler (Retired)]

32 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

 

Be fair. You're only doing what brings you fun. Helping noobs to become experienced players is no fun but a lot of work. That's why I always will honor players like Sveno, Fury, Benabib and others who helped you and me to get a good start.

Britain has a problem with its experienced players. No problem with its noobs and no problem with game mechanic.

 

 Some still help,  i do time to time but it isn't a job.

 People have different free time restrictions in their life, and they do what they want to enjoy themselves as they see fit.  I don't see it as a problem of whichever nation/players not performing on demand/ training  new guys,  more that perhaps they want to do other things rather than the actions you wish them to do.

 

 Just go and flip cartagena or whatever port, clan will react or not and will result in RvR.  I don't get why people grumble about sitting at KPR and not finding action, go make it happen .

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Dibbler

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

Now feel in Russian situation . And nothing stands by we growed up .

Edited April 1, 2019 by Capitano Tomasso Fortuna

[Hawkwood]

8 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

Sorry I know there was already a thread but it didn't have 'Reinforcement Zone' in the title and was difficult to find.

I have never liked Reinforcement Zones. They certainly don't suit my play style and they felt way too big and too numerous and it made it too easy for players to essentially perma PvE on the War server. I'm glad they have gone in their old format. Currently playing as Brit it is hilarious having an almost continuous war going on right outside your Capital.

But to get rid of them completely? We must remember that most of us on this forum are experienced players and the PvP focused amongst us easily the most numerous subset. So the Question I am asking is, is this really good for the well-being of the game and for balance and for new player retention? Here are some points/problems for discussion:

1. The way this was announced! There are 2 lines as a PS on the Patch Notes, that's all I can see. Where are the new RoE rules for capital zones even explained? Did I miss them? (defo possible) or are are we supposed to try and work them out? Why has Admin not made a pinned topic for it's discussion? Just seems odd the way it's been done.

2. Capitals mean nothing. New players need somewhere with at least some relative safety so they can find their feet and learn the game? NOt being able to play perma-safe PvE on the war server no. But not this baptism of fire surely?  They can leave the area entirely of course and set up somewhere else on the map yes. But this is counter intuitive to what a new player will expect when they start the game and the very place that will be their trade hub, where they are MADE to begin the game will be the most dangerous place on the map! Putting a permanent Patrol Zone directly outside a Capital would actually make it marginally safer!  We know that most new players simply don't do this. It's carnage outside KPR, they will die and they will quit.

3. Coast Guard won't happen in a way that adequately protects new players as it is. I like the idea that Nations would be responsible for protecting their own waters but in reality I doubt this is going to happen in a meaningful way that offers any effective protection. Currently playing as a Brit, it's just too time-consuming and frustrating explaining do's and don'ts, tagging rules, battle timers, BR balancing etc to new players over and over. Battles that do occur here are 'fair' but 'fair' will be too much of a drain on ships and resources over the long term to provide this 'service'. It's a lot of PvP yes, right on your doorstep, which is nice, but it's going to get a bit boring trying to defend the permanent siege on your capital day after day. Most clans I suspect will move (that's fine) but they will be leaving only the new players at KPR to be fed to the sharks. Come on guy's you really want open access all seal clubbing?

4. Great Britain 'Easy', Russia 'Hard' I believe it tells new players on the Nation choosing screen? Obviously that needs to be changed because quite clearly the exact opposite is true!

My suggestion would be this:

Bring back Reinforcement Zones but in this way:

Capital Zone. One Port (the Capital) has a reinforcement Zone of the full (old) size. In this zone home players are not taggable. If enemies are tagged, other enemies cannot join the battle unless they were dragged at tag. Home side can enter for 20 minutes. It should be still be dangerous to attack another Nation's Capital. I do it all the time and I wouldn't mind this. 

Reinforcement Zone. Two Ports (either side of the Capital) have a reinforcement Zone. In this Zone home players ARE taggable and Enemy players can reinforce for 2.5 Minutes, Home side can reinforce for 20 Minutes. 

No BR limits for either side.

LIMIT enemy AI in Capital/Reinforcement zones to Traders only and all 'Kill' Missions to spawn outside of zones. (This seems immersive to me and prevents players staying in zones to PVE grind all day)

This way an organised coast guard is at least viable and new players get offered a good level of protection (but not from AI which was crap).  They will still have to learn quickly how to survive though. Attacking a Capital is still viable for those who want to but it put's you at a disadvantage and you are likely to end up out-numbered (which seems reasonable to me). New players can at least visit neighbouring Ports without having to 'run the gauntlet' and get a feel for travel and trade and hauling goods. The concept of home (safer) waters will be palpable but no player is going to get very far by staying within them.

Just a suggestion there will almost certainly be better ones.

Absolutely against any other form of reinforcement, safe, green zone, whatever you want to call it.

You might remember when i asked you, why you went GB, because i know your name from combat news, or global chat? I guess you just came because of HAVOC, but telling you, you came too late.  This "noob" bashing at KPR is, with or without reinforcement zone a permanent state. Get used to it 🙂.

 

 

 

[Hullabaloo]

 

37 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

You might remember when i asked you, why you went GB, because i know your name from combat news, or global chat? I guess you just came because of HAVOC, but telling you, you came too late.  This "noob" bashing at KPR is, with or without reinforcement zone a permanent state. Get used to it 🙂.

no/how would i know?/no/too late? for what?/That doesn't make even make sense in the context of this topic/I already did, long ago. That is one of the most useless comments I've seen on this forum, and that is saying something

[Hawkwood]

31 minutes ago, Hullabaloo said:

 

no/how would i know?/no/too late? for what?/That doesn't make even make sense in the context of this topic/I already did, long ago. That is one of the most useless comments I've seen on this forum, and that is saying something

Of course you don´t.

You can try to "train" those bots at KPR or try to "explain" them what are they doing wrong, or tell them to leave Jamaica.. Many did before you came, and we HAD REINFORCEMENT ZONE then..Ask Licinio how he and his gang managed to earn like 100 PVP marks per day there....

Btw, leave GB if you don´t like the "noob" bashing at KPR. Come back as a "noob" basher, do as you like. But stop crying on forum, because you missed the golden HAVOC era, which came to an end. And now you have to see, what is it like being in GB.

Cheers.

"Mate".

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Is not fast to get anywhere. Is not fast to get rank. Is not fast to get any ship they want. That's the first lesson.

Or maybe, it is fast to come up with a plan and fast to capture a ship from AI adequate to their rank. That's the second lesson.

Third lesson is... what Graf said. Sail the same ships the newcomers sail, so they feel welcome and have fun together  

Having one sailing a navybrig going out with a good bunch but all in bellonas is a fast way for them to stop.

 

[Hullabaloo]

1 hour ago, Hawkwood said:

But stop crying on forum, because you missed the golden HAVOC era, which came to an end. And now you have to see, what is it like being in GB.

You are completely missing the point 'chief'.  believe it or not It's not about what I like or dislike, I don't mind no reinforcement zones personally, i don't need them. 

and I have Prolific Forger have been in 3 nations already so changing again wouldn't be a problem, although I doubt I will, I quite like it in the Brits

Edited April 1, 2019 by Hullabaloo

[Angus MacDuff]

I couldn't care less about R Zones for myself.  I never hunted in them and I don't use my own.  I do care about the current bloodbath around KPR.  It's not good for the long term.

[Meraun]

increasing the Capitalzones might make sence. But in general i believe its up to the Players to defend their Nations waters. At Release, veterans or higher Tier Players shoud form  Costal patrols, or be active in the Nations chat to react on Calls for Help.

If i wanna get PvP, i might as well get infront of my Nation's Port instead of Traveling to the PvP Zone or raid trough enemy Waters.

Its the Clans duty to defend their Nations Coast. After all, we all need new recruits.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

12 hours ago, Routan said:

Been there, done that. Even crafted the best ship in best woods and give to players for free. Not going there again untill the game actually work so player want to play the game.

Speak for yourself  

You are not Legion. You are one.

Same as any other individual.

Thanks.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Good. Now play the game if you wish, the way you see fit.

 

[Simon Cadete]

Those that have been playing the game since steam release need to think about the following: was the game that bad back then? People survived when it was just basic roe and 2 ( maybe 5) minute timers.

i think crafting should go back to the way it was in the beginning but include labor contracts. Remove all permit requirements and make shipbuilding easy again so that people don’t feel so attached to their ships and afraid of losing them. 

For those that say leave casuals alone and    People should play the way they want to I say this: if all you do is login for a few hours a week and ALL you do is pve, is the war server the appropriate server for you? If you want to pve all day and refuse to leave to the appropriate server then at least don’t join any pvp fights and keep on sailing past the cross swords towards your next ai trader or ai fleet. 

You can’t have the cake and eat it too...

[Hawkwood]

13 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

You are completely missing the point 'chief'.  believe it or not It's not about what I like or dislike, I don't mind no reinforcement zones personally, i don't need them. 

and I have Prolific Forger have been in 3 nations already so changing again wouldn't be a problem, although I doubt I will, I quite like it in the Brits

If you don´t need R Zone, why posting this "suggestion", few days after they being removed?

Changing nation so often says a lot about you. Bon voyage then.

[Angus MacDuff]

4 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

For those that say leave casuals alone and    People should play the way they want to I say this: if all you do is login for a few hours a week and ALL you do is pve, is the war server the appropriate server for you? If you want to pve all day and refuse to leave to the appropriate server then at least don’t join any pvp fights and keep on sailing past the cross swords towards your next ai trader or ai fleet. 

You can’t have the cake and eat it too...

Why do you feel you have any right to say that?  I don't mean that to be disrespectful, but I don't know how else I can say it.  Its not for you to tell another player what the appropriate server is.  You have no right to criticise what a player does in his several hours per week.  Whether or not a player chooses to join in PVP battles is none of your (or MY) business.  I apologise that this sounds harsh, mon ami, but this is a computer game that each individual pays for, so he can in fact, have his cake and eat it too.  For me, I truly don't care what you do in a safe zone (if they were to ever come back, of course). 

[Hullabaloo]

20 hours ago, Hawkwood said:

If you don´t need R Zone, why posting this "suggestion", few days after they being removed?

Changing nation so often says a lot about you. Bon voyage then.

Because of concern about the game generally and the experience of other, newer players. Your inability to grasp that concept says a lot about you!