Time to give 9 pounders to the Prince de Neufchatel

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

I would prefer "northern master carpenters"and"steel toolbox" or "sea service toolbox" and "carpenter combat reports  ? just rinse repeat for 1 hours 30 minutes, of course expert carpenter as perk.

Enough to survive 1:30 hours while slapping and sinking smaller ships which catch up, fixing broadside from 2 big ships is enough for smaller ships to sink.

I had a 1st rate battle recently, there were 3 enemies 1 bailed out quick, 1 buc was heavily damaged by my L'Ocean and he had to run. I was left with another L'Ocean and battle lasted 1:30 hours while I badly hurt enemy 1st rate, he repaired to full, he hurt me I repaired to about full. At last 8 minutes I was without hull repairs as I was intercepted on my to port, even in that condition the battle ended due to timer and I was about full hp. I had  Northern Master Carpenters+Carpenter combat reports and expert carpenter perk.

This is stupid system, if the captains knows how to battle in his 1st rate, it will be draw but may be only boarding victory which also needs several attempts. When one makes some mistakes, at some point there should be punishment, but this repair system just saves most mistakes.

But not every one has all those and with a wipe even less folks will have all those, it also means you have exactly zero combat perks on your ship most likely.

 

[Tom Farseer]

47 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

2 hours ago, Aerospace said:

I would prefer "northern master carpenters"and"steel toolbox" or "sea service toolbox" and "carpenter combat reports  ? just rinse repeat for 1 hours 30 minutes, of course expert carpenter as perk.

Enough to survive 1:30 hours while slapping and sinking smaller ships which catch up, fixing broadside from 2 big ships is enough for smaller ships to sink.

I had a 1st rate battle recently, there were 3 enemies 1 bailed out quick, 1 buc was heavily damaged by my L'Ocean and he had to run. I was left with another L'Ocean and battle lasted 1:30 hours while I badly hurt enemy 1st rate, he repaired to full, he hurt me I repaired to about full. At last 8 minutes I was without hull repairs as I was intercepted on my to port, even in that condition the battle ended due to timer and I was about full hp. I had  Northern Master Carpenters+Carpenter combat reports and expert carpenter perk.

This is stupid system, if the captains knows how to battle in his 1st rate, it will be draw but may be only boarding victory which also needs several attempts. When one makes some mistakes, at some point there should be punishment, but this repair system just saves most mistakes.

But not every one has all those and with a wipe even less folks will have all those, it also means you have exactly zero combat perks on your ship most likely. 

That's a bit shortsighted. Give it a few weeks and people will start having those again. A few months and we will be having a select few "elite" players that have a full set of books and mods on their ships and just go around wrecking face. The skill gap in and of itself is already high enough. Lowering the gear gap a bit can only help newbies because it's usually not the newer players that have the goog gear

TL:DR: Gear gap: ok, but not too big please.

[Aerospace]

57 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

But not every one has all those and with a wipe even less folks will have all those, it also means you have exactly zero combat perks on your ship most likely.

Carta + Navy Structure + Northern Master Carpenters

AOSH + GUnnery Ency + Carpenter Reports + Marines + Reloading or Instrut.Cannoneers, teak/sab fast L'Ocean, 3/5 . 

Expert Carpentery + Charge + Double + Emergency Mast + Prepared

I can kill with combat or boarding, I can kite and repair. I will lose getting boarded by redoutable musket mod which happened in reality, by being boarded by 2 1st rates and zero repairs left  , so my mistake to not to have determined defenders as I am lazy to change perks many times.

---------------------------------------------------

For @LeBoiteux 

btw I really do not like your implementing 6pd vs 9pd rule (your no 6 pounder can beat 9 pounder rule) . I can kill any 9pd ship with a 6 pounder ship. I can not kill 32 pounder carro ship with a 6 pounder/18 carro ship, that is the problem, 32 pounders carronades not 9 pounder cannons. 32 pounder carronades are very strong. I tell you LRQ has 384 carronade broadside weight, you tell me you do not need to look at it, no 6pd is a match for 9pd ??? 9 pounder cannons LRQ has 108 cannon broadside weight, compare it to 384 !

32 carronades have very good penetration, dps, alpha. I do not think 9 pounder cannons = 32 pounder carronades equivalent with current damage model. 

9 pounder medium = 65 damage 40s reload 100m=101cm penetration 250m=86cm penetration

6 pounder medium = 50 damage 35s reload 100m=88cm 250m=73cm

32 pounder carronade= 108 damage 47s reload 100m=115 cm penetration 250m=87cm penetration

24 pounder carronade= 88 damage 43s reload 100m=106 cm penetration 250m=78cm

18 pounder carronade= 72 damge 40s reload 100m=99cm 250m=68cm

32 pounder carronade is not a substitue for 9 pounder medium with current damage model ! This is why 6th rate ship combat is broken still. Remove 32 carros for 6th rate ships, and limit carros to upperdecks on higher rate ships. According to me solves the broken state.

I even find 24 pounder carronade to be a bit strong for 9 pounder medium equivalent.

I do not even wanna talk about Poods, those are really POOP 🍩 for this game, limit them to Russians and give Russian ships an edge.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Aerospace

[LeBoiteux]

19 hours ago, Aerospace said:

For @LeBoiteux 

btw I really do not like your implementing 6pd vs 9pd rule (your no 6 pounder can beat 9 pounder rule) . I can kill any 9pd ship with a 6 pounder ship. I can not kill 32 pounder carro ship with a 6 pounder/18 carro ship, that is the problem, 32 pounders carronades not 9 pounder cannons. 32 pounder carronades are very strong. I tell you LRQ has 384 carronade broadside weight, you tell me you do not need to look at it, no 6pd is a match for 9pd ??? 9 pounder cannons LRQ has 108 cannon broadside weight, compare it to 384 !

32 carronades have very good penetration, dps, alpha. I do not think 9 pounder cannons = 32 pounder carronades equivalent with current damage model. 

9 pounder medium = 65 damage 40s reload 100m=101cm penetration 250m=86cm penetration

6 pounder medium = 50 damage 35s reload 100m=88cm 250m=73cm

32 pounder carronade= 108 damage 47s reload 100m=115 cm penetration 250m=87cm penetration

24 pounder carronade= 88 damage 43s reload 100m=106 cm penetration 250m=78cm

18 pounder carronade= 72 damge 40s reload 100m=99cm 250m=68cm

32 pounder carronade is not a substitue for 9 pounder medium with current damage model ! This is why 6th rate ship combat is broken still. Remove 32 carros for 6th rate ships, and limit carros to upperdecks on higher rate ships. According to me solves the broken state.

I even find 24 pounder carronade to be a bit strong for 9 pounder medium equivalent.

I do not even wanna talk about Poods, those are really POOP 🍩 for this game, limit them to Russians and give Russian ships an edge.

Lots of imprecisions about "what I said" (in another thread) and lots of colors... Please quote me (if you really want to discuss), don't rephrase approximately and wrongly what I wrote. 🙂

However, our only contradiction lies in the fact that I'd prefer a rating in terms of gun pdr (6-pders, 9-pders, 12 to 24-pdr frigates...), especially given the currently in-game carro split (12 to 24-pdr carro for 6-pders, 32-pdr carro for 9-pdrs and above, etc. ) while you want to keep the current rating with rates and give all 6th 'rates' lighter carro. No big deal. Any opinion is interesting. I remain open.

Anyway, devs (who decide) have currently chosen a third way :

• 32-pdr carro for all 9-pdr ships (following their in-game split rule)
• All 9-pdr ships (including light frigates/corvette) in shallows (IMO a nice move as 9-pders need to be together and need 'protection' from heavier frigates. It gives them an place where they can be fully used)
• Missions by rate (which seems to be in contradiction with the two previous points)

It also has a side effect. It mixes 6-pders and 9-pders in the same group/area (in the '6th-rate group' and in the shallows), making 6-pders weaker, especially as carro are the rule.

According to Admin, 9-pders were meant to be the 'lineships of the shallows'. They are.

Time to find a way to give both 6-pders and 9-pders a chance.

Edited March 25, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Vibrio Cholerae]

@Aerospace just to tell you Leboiteux is not playing the game so all he knows is form the forum

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

That's a bit shortsighted. Give it a few weeks and people will start having those again. A few months and we will be having a select few "elite" players that have a full set of books and mods on their ships and just go around wrecking face. The skill gap in and of itself is already high enough. Lowering the gear gap a bit can only help newbies because it's usually not the newer players that have the goog gear

TL:DR: Gear gap: ok, but not too big please.

last time i checked rng isnt in favour for any player, even a casual can kill npc ships and get lucky with loot

[angriff]

Is there historical evidence of this upgrade or are we just wanting to add photon torpedoes to a pleasingly looking vessel?

[Malachi]

Heh, she´s already carrying a too heavy armament in-game now, 9-pounders would be overkill (from a historical point of view, not speaking about balancing).

 

[LeBoiteux]

1 hour ago, Malachi said:

Heh, she´s already carrying a too heavy armament in-game now, 9-pounders would be overkill (from a historical point of view, not speaking about balancing).

 

From a historical point of view, indeed. And compared to the other 6-pders of the game, saying she's doing well would be an understatement. However, Admin explained why she would have some kind of buff (as other ships) on the previous page of this thread.

OP's main problem was that Prince had some trouble in duel against... a 18-pdr frigate carrying 32-pdr carro. So, he wouldn't be against 32-pdr carro or 9-pdr guns on his beloved Prince. I can understand : when love (and a nice sailing profile) speaks...🙂

Edited March 28, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Vernon Merrill]

Actually, my point was that 6-lb’ers dps cannot keep up with repairs on a 5th rate.  

Mans yes, there IS historical precedent.  Are we to assume that the man who capped the ship in real life couldn’t distinguish between a 9-lb and 6-lb. cannon?

P.S.- I’m not sure where you got the carro thing...  I never said the pirate frigate was running them.  He had longs.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by Vernon Merrill

[LeBoiteux]

4 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Actually, my point was that 6-lb’ers dps cannot keep up with repairs on a 5th rate.  

Thx for clarifying. 

4 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Mans yes, there IS historical precedent.  Are we to assume that the man who capped the ship in real life couldn’t distinguish between a 9-lb and 6-lb. cannon?

No.

Nobody ever said or wrote that Prince ever carried 18 or 20 9-pdr guns. There is only a poster on a blog who said he knows a letter written by the captain who captured her that says that out of 6 of her guns, some were 9 long guns while most of her guns (12 out of 18) were 12-pdr carro which is what she ordinarily carried (according to Gardiner). This is very common for a Privateer to fill in a few empty ports with whatever he has on his ship that he's just captured or bought, when he doesn't have enough available 'normal' guns. I could give you other examples of wrecked privateer showing a diversity of guns on board. Certainly often by lack of a better alternative. It does not mean the Prince was made to carry 20 9-pdr guns.

No historical precedent.

4 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

P.S.- I’m not sure where you got the carro thing...  I never said the pirate frigate was running them.  He had longs.  

All I meant was that giving Prince 20 9-pdr implies also giving her 20 9-32-pdr

(while the 18-pdr Pirate frigate you fought can carry 28 18-pdr +12 12-pdr (gun) or 26 32-pdr + 12 24-pdr (carro))

 

You ask for a mega non-historical buff. Admin said the ship will be buffed in some way for reasons of gameplay. Let's see. No big deal, just a matter of gameplay and balance in a game, not history 🙂

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by LeBoiteux