We should have a complete wipe at launch

[Beeekonda]

22 minutes ago, Galt said:

You all signed up to play an early access game, an "alpha" version of the game where it was expected for everything to be wiped on final release.

Wrong.

22 minutes ago, Galt said:

No beta game, in it's right mind, wouldn't start with a clean slate on release.

Wrong. Early Access =/= Beta Testing

Us going on test server and playing it is close to what "Beta Testing" is, and everything we get there is not going to make to live server.

22 minutes ago, Galt said:

We will still have our special ships we can redeem and the tutorial will take you far enough to get you started for instant PvP. 

We are discussing exp related stuff: Rank, craft lvl, knowledge slots and rare books. Obtaining ships and mods is not a problem

 

Some stuff to read if you are interested:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_access#Current

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Beeekonda

[Njord]

3 hours ago, Justme said:

cherry picking what will be wiped does not do anyone any favors

It does a favor to me for sure. Of course that's because I actually intensively tested the game prior to release and thus earned the books, so I have no reason to cry for a wipe on them.

[Njord]

3 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

What is "fair"? newcomers will always be in disadvantage over old players - so whats the hello kittying point?

"Fair" is EA testers putting in hundreds of hours prior to release while getting nothing but a non exclusive DLC to show for it and still have some tosser moan about how it is "not fair" that they at least get to keep their well earned books. And always the "new player" as empty excuse... simply sickening. As if new players stood any chance against veterans in combat, regardless of who has what books. I'm sure it will also help new players on their quest for the rarer books when they can move to the end of the line, because everyone has to look for them again and new players will have the least to offer for the books, effectively making it harder for them to get the books. The rank xp wipe makes perfect sense, the book wipe not. I really hope admin has enough integrity to at least keep his word on the books being saved.

[Njord]

2 hours ago, Cabral said:

hard to repeat another year of grinding to find the books again

I dare say impossible for anyone who truely and sincerely knows the value of his lifetime. Not because the task is impossible but because repeating it would make you a fool who does not understand the value of their time. I really loathe the book grind and its role as pseudo "content" but I went through it because I love the game. That being said there is no good reason to wipe books, other than possibly pleasing the whiners who couldn't be bothered to put any significant amount of time into the game prior to release to help improve it.

I can not take anyone asking for book wipe serious anyways, unless I could be 100% certain they have all books unlocked on at least one account. Just another whinger, who thinks loyal testers should be punished for helping gamelabs getting the game release ready instead of only showing up when the game is already finished and polished.

If a book wipe would make any good sense, it would be a slap to the face but understandable... like rank xp wipe. But it doesn't.

From every one of these posts you hear the same blabbering.... "new players... clean slate... because it's release...". What a steaming pile of BS.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Sovereign

[Barbarosa]

[Galt]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

The difference between alpha and beta and early access to full release is not the same. Alpha and beta still imply pre-launch testing stage which means incomplete with bugs, exploits and content and progression which is subject to change . In NA's case all these things have changed many times over, and the progress made is not the same progress as it will be, If the game launched without a wipe into a clean slate, then the alpha/beta EA testers will be at a disparity, and will not know the game which they launch into if they do not play it as it official is then they'll only remember it as the way it was, which at release will not be true in the sense that the game at release, is not the same game as it is in pre-release. One implies complete, the other reflects incomplete. An incomplete set of notes from a course back will not help you in your current or future predicament.

I can respect the idea that the game, on release, still won't be a completed form of the game (which is sorta the sense I got from you) and so there would be no reason to wipe. But I don't think that is the case, and what is actually important is that the devs don't seem to think that will be the case. As I understand it, they will be releasing the game into it's permanent state. From that position, even if it is a new game experience, as you said, then why should you start a new game with a lot of the xp given to you? I feel like you're arguing that "veterans have really only tested the end game so to throw them back to the beginning would be to give them a different game." So you are saying that they should either start a new game with half of the mechanics unlocked/applied, or you're saying that the starting position and the endgame, in Naval Action, are entirely different games. I disagree with both. 

 

1 hour ago, Beeekonda said:

Wrong.

Wrong. Early Access =/= Beta Testing

Us going on test server and playing it is close to what "Beta Testing" is, and everything we get there is not going to make to live server.

We are discussing exp related stuff: Rank, craft lvl, knowledge slots and rare books. Obtaining ships and mods is not a problem

 

Some stuff to read if you are interested:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_access#Current

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

 

I am just using the terminology of the devs. Steam classifies this as an "Early Access" title which is just "access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement." Every development project I have been a part of makes a point to ensure, on launch, that it is an equal footing for everyone. You reward the players that participated in the beta (in this case, an open alpha, as the devs put it) with some fun special title or whatever, maybe some special loot that they can show off. But you never give them an inherent advantage out of the gate. That's a good way to end your race early. In our case, Early Access is an open beta, which is still beta testing. Going onto another environment, like the test server, doesn't change with the current production environment is. Terms for you to consider; development, testing (test server) staging (where we are now with the game,) production (release.) I can understand that not everyone has a lot of experience with the development process. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deployment_environment

Edited March 19, 2019 by Galt

[Zlatkowar]

Very simple question here, from a PvE perspective. What is the interest of a total wipe? Because I see zero link with any form of "fairness" whatsoever.

What will it bring to the game? Instead of bragging at how you see no good reason other than "don''t take my stuff", enlighten me, what kind of positive change will a total wipe bring to all of us? 

[Barbarosa]

4 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

What is the interest of a total wipe?

Everybody will be equally poor. Besides suffering is harder when you know others do not suffer.

[Meraun]

We need a Full Wipe. Anything else will kill the game because the new Players will get frustrated by all the Vet's in their Bellonas will kell them

i mean Who the hello kitty woud release and MMo without a Wipe into release? Are you Nuts?

 

 

#wipeteer!

Edited March 19, 2019 by Meraun

[Meraun]

5 hours ago, Alonso Alvarado said:

You will have after few months less players than who are playing now. New players dont know how hard is this game nowadays. A lot of people left it the first months at 2016 and the game was easier in that moment. Many veteran players are not going to level up again their player level and ships knowledge. But imagine is free.

Fairness...pretty word. We can start to talk about double accounts and why many players adulterate the RvR in game ussing them, if you like.

Without a Wipe, you wont have anyone playing this game. We need fresh blood the splash out the all old hello kittying Rovers here

[Tristan Wolfe]

I get the feeling the vast majority of you have not played a game transitioning from beta to full release.  Generally speaking they do a full wipe upon release, that being said in the age of "Founder's Pack" and "Early Starts" I guess I can see why yall are cry babies.  I think a full wipe would be fair for new and returning players and be a bit more fun for us all.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Tristan Wolfe

[Barbarosa]

You can't wipe experience as said many times in forums. Worst/less experienced will loose regardless.

You can't wipe/ignore hard work for something promised just because you have recently decided to play again.

Moreover, people "share", we don't pickle extra books, we sell or gift them to new players, which means new players will get them faster.

...whatever. Till you stop playing again, fair winds.

[Galt]

16 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

You can't wipe experience as said many times in forums. 

I've played pretty much consistently since 2016 and although the community has been a little divided on this, everything must be wiped for there to be any success after launch. and I am pretty sure the devs have said this is now the case, though I am aware they have previously said to the contrary before. 

17 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

Worst/less experienced will loose regardless.

Just because you feel someone is destined to lose doesn't make the victory moral. Which in this case, it wouldn't be. I would argue it would be at least a bit more moral if everyone were to start on an equal playing field, at least then there can be a bit of blame on the victim. 

19 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

You can't wipe/ignore hard work for something promised 

We have all worked hard for it, and I can understand the frustration of having all of that wiped away; and I can completely understand that it might entirely turn you off the game. That's not at all what anyone wants. But if it was something that was promised, anticipated, why did you work so hard for it in the first place?

21 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

Moreover, people "share", we don't pickle extra books, we sell or gift them to new players, which means new players will get them faster.

I agree that this is the case, the community has been really good about helping the people on their team to be better. If that is the case, what are you really worried about? Everyone will be right back where they are now with books and upgrades. Although I will admit that grinding up ships again won't be the best thing,  at least we will have a good reason to sail some ships again. I miss my Ocean. But if there is only one reason that you are willing to give up the game (ship xp), then I would say that the game can't be that important to you in the first place. 

[Barbarosa]

I am only worried for people who think wiping will be what we need when we have countless of other issues.

Anyway my bad to start discussing things here again. Please keep it, I admire your judgements and sorry for not reading them.

Back to share memes. o7

[King of Crowns]

wipe it all. that way every has full content available to them on release. which means that they will stick around a little while longer to unlock stuff thus increasing the lifespan of the game. because once the game releases that's it...… there is no more life line it is either going to be a slow death spiral or a very fast one. but either way a death spiral. the clock will be ticking and we are gonna have 2 maybe 3 years to play the game before the pop reaches current levels again and the game is unplayable with no hope of revival. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by King of Crowns

[Alonso Alvarado]

3 hours ago, Meraun said:

Without a Wipe, you wont have anyone playing this game. We need fresh blood the splash out the all old hello kittying Rovers here

The problem is a bad conquest system which makes double accounts so important to monopolize RvR in game. And is a full wipe the solution for that? People who has put money on that is not going to quit. They will be again in game imposing their rules at pvp server. Port battles are played by the same people. Don´t you know it? A bad design in the game has the guilt.

But there is a group of veteran players who don´t take part on that and they will not waste time in level up again. You will lose those players. This game has no future at pvp server with this design. It will be only a question of few months after the launch that game dies definitely. Dont hope miracles from new players.

[Justme]

14 hours ago, Barbarosa said:

I am only worried for people who think wiping will be what we need when we have countless of other issues.

Anyway my bad to start discussing things here again. Please keep it, I admire your judgements and sorry for not reading them.

Back to share memes. o7

Wiping the game will not fix all the issues. How ever most of the ones against wiping the game are the players who were never really interested in giving feedback, or contributing to the development.

They are attempting to set themselves up as the dominate clans from the start. They simply don't want to be yet on a more level playing field.

 

[Justme]

57 minutes ago, Routan said:

So to get you right, build more boring grind in to the game, so ppl stay. Maybe then also increase the ep needed to level by x 10.

Think you are right, better lots of grind and less fun. You my friend is inded a wise man😀

Because giving the large clans an advantage at the beginning so they can decimate the new players and have complete control from the start is so much better for everyone right?

It would be nice to get @admin to address this concern, but given my history I would über stand if I'm ignored on this lol.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Justme

[Barbarosa]

1 hour ago, Justme said:

How ever most of the ones against wiping the game are the players who were never really interested in giving feedback, or contributing to the development.

You are right. They are banned, silenced, oppressed or simply tired of having hope.

It is not a coincidence that you keep seeing the very same people posting on everything. The ones actually "know" the game already tested the bitterness of contributing.  

"If you make listening and observation your occupation, you will gain much more than you can by talk." --Robert Baden-Powell

[Aquillas]

Losing XP, crafting XP, ship knowledge slots, player assets, ships and stuff is enough.

Let’s keep books and knowledges as a reward for testers, so that testers who really did it for several thousand hours keep more than testers who will open an account the day before the game release, just for getting the “Pandora”…

Real veterans will easily pass through the exams and directly go to Master & Commander, or equivalent in the new ranking. This will really be an advantage for participating to the initial map conquest.

That plan, which is I the one I understood from @admin, but I my need an update,  is fair enough for veterans and new players.

[Botq]

What really surprise me that there are some people who think there will be thousands of new players after release The game is out on steam for 3 years, most of the people who would like the game already have it and played during the development. In my eyes eco wipe make sense, XP wipe too, but not the books. New player would get beaten by veteran even with books or without, that doesnt make sense to wipe them. + The more people have the books now, the faster "new" players will be able to buy them or something. When I started playing like year ago, i really didnt care about some books. 

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, DesMoines said:

Level XP and craft XP can t be reset... It is attached to your steam account..  said in others post ....and in full post where Admin said... We will never Reset XP Leveling and XP Craft.

That has changed

[Njord]

4 hours ago, Routan said:

So to get you right, build more boring grind in to the game, so ppl stay.

Pretty flawed logic anyways, I can't be forced to go through the same boring grind / pseudo "content" twice just to please some whiners who couldn't be bothered during the first round that actually helped improving the game. If books are wiped too, I'll simply wish the devs all the best with their project and future endeavours and look for another game. I won't even leave a negative review ( tho not a positive either with such lack of respect for loyal EA testers ) , others will surely do it however...

I have said it several times and I will say it again. Book wipe would have nothing to do with new players. It's just a bunch of moaners who couldn't be bothered to put time into the game prior to release and let others do the testing / help with development and now they claim it would be "unfair to new players", when in reality they think it would not be fair to themselves... but it is, they didn't put in the time during EA and the loyal testers did.

They simply begrudge loyal testers for getting to keep their books, when they clearly earned and deserve them. Nothing but pathetic.

The rank xp wipe was a rather deceitful and shady move but in my opinion it can be forgiven, because it makes sense. Nobody should start with enough crew for a SOL or multiple indiamen on day 1 of release. So the rank xp wipe is understandable. Book wipe makes no sense at all and would just piss off the loyal playerbase even more.

[Angus MacDuff]

All the vets will be M&C on day one with a Herc and Pandora (Req too, I guess).  Still have to grind open the slots, though.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Angus MacDuff

[greybuscat]

On 3/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, Justme said:

I believe in the interest of fairness to new players at launch we should have at launch

I don't disagree in theory.

On 3/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, Justme said:

1. Compete wipe. No knowledge, books, Xp, money, rank etc should be allowed to be kept.

I agree in the sense that books confer the biggest advantages, by far, and the best books are usually held by the best players, who don't need assistance beating up the have-nots. I also agree in the sense that ship XP is a dumb idea that should be removed. The rest of it is going to be wiped already, isn't it?

The fact that so many players see books and ship XP wipes as deal breakers is a sign of bad game design. I cannot stress this enough.

On 3/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, Justme said:

2. Minimum rank before previous DLC purchased can be used. It would not be fair to new players to face P2W ships at game launch. Players should be held to a minimum rank before any of the DLC content can be used at launch.

The problem is, there will always be new players as long as the game is active, and they will face the same problem of being in a caribbean full of DLC ships, well-established clans, and experienced players.
DLC ships can always use tuning, so that they aren't perceived as P2W, but you can't protect new players from them in the long-term.

On 3/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, Justme said:

This I believe would foster a more balanced game in the beginning and is best interest of fairness for new players.

I think you have a mix of good ideas and bad ideas for achieving a fair experience at launch.

On 3/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, Justme said:

I can not see the benefit of allowing experienced players more advantages over new players beyond the hands on experience they already obtained by being testers.

This, in principle, I strongly agree with.