Reinforcement Zone 'nerf'

[victor]

40 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The Prussians don't seem to miss the R zone too much.  Dunno about the other two, but Prussian noobs seem to do just fine.

I'm not sure it's totally correct predicting the possible behavior of newbies that will be forced to accept a no safe zone situation taking as an example the behavior of newbies that freely chose to begin in a no safe zone faction.

Edited March 13, 2019 by victor

[Sven Silberbart]

The RZ atm protect everyone including max level and they are much too big. I am fine with protecting new players, but at some point a new player must be PvP'ready, because this is a war server. Shrink or remove RF zones are the right way in my opinion. Personally i would like to have a newbee protecton zone around the capital, nothing more. Lets say a small zone where everyone under Master and Commander (not sailing a trader ship, cause of alts) rank couldn't be attacked. Everyone else having a higher rank are not protected. Sometimes i think the people dont want to protect the newbees, instead they want to have a PvE Heaven at war server.

[Teutonic]

15 minutes ago, victor said:

I'm not sure it's totally correct predicting the possible behavior of newbies that will be forced to accept a no safe zone situation taking as an example the behavior of newbies that freely chose to begin in a no safe zone faction.

I think we are going to see a loss of players initially, but they may come back. Still the reinforcement zone was never given a proper chance. It was always a "fake" safety feature.

12 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

The RZ atm protect everyone including max level and they are much too big. I am fine with protecting new players, but at some point a new player must be PvP'ready, because this is a war server. Shrink or remove RF zones are the right way in my opinion. Personally i would like to have a newbee protecton zone around the capital, nothing more. Lets say a small zone where everyone under Master and Commander (not sailing a trader ship, cause of alts) rank couldn't be attacked. Everyone else having a higher rank are not protected. Sometimes i think the people dont want to protect the newbees, instead they want to have a PvE Heaven at war server.

true, but I do hope those players still decide to stay... 

We need to encourage PvE minded players to play in the pool with us, not to be ravaged and left in the dirt alone.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Sven Silberbart said:

The RZ atm protect everyone including max level and they are much too big. I am fine with protecting new players, but at some point a new player must be PvP'ready, because this is a war server. Shrink or remove RF zones are the right way in my opinion. Personally i would like to have a newbee protecton zone around the capital, nothing more. Lets say a small zone where everyone under Master and Commander (not sailing a trader ship, cause of alts) rank couldn't be attacked. Everyone else having a higher rank are not protected. Sometimes i think the people dont want to protect the newbees, instead they want to have a PvE Heaven at war server.

Why does it matter to you what others do?  Your not being forced to play with them so why do they have to be forced to play with you. Some folks don't ahve all day to PvP and want to log in do some missions and level up some without being dragged into a fight they aren't ready for or have time for.  Now your just going to run off more players than keep and your going to see a server even more dead than we have right now.

Wouldn't you get better PvP when folks come out when they want to PvP?  How if we don't want any PvE than lets remove all AI and have a PvP only server, cause that is what you will get and we all know how NA:L failed.....only a few folks want that and it's not enough to sustand a server.  Those PvE guys are the ones that craft ships, pay tax's, fuels the econ.  They are the ones that you hunt cause your to much a coward to fight other PvPers.   When they all go and I'm sure it won't be to the PvE serve than what will you do?  

[Aerospace]

50 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why does it matter to you what others do?  Your not being forced to play with them so why do they have to be forced to play with you.

Ohh it does matter. I may be wanna farm Rear Admirals who has very limited pvp experience, it is fun sinking them, reminds me how big pvp I am !

May be I wanna farm every trader, crafter, npc farmer, so they can quit the game, and it is game over NA cause I can not farm remaining 100 pvpers. I can move to another game and show random people how skilled I am ?

We kept saying, we kept trying, with basic concept and basic words even the trees would understand, this games needs a healthy eco-system where many fish live. Most of them will be eating moss/vegetation, some bigger fish eating the smaller ones and sometimes each other, but eco-system dies when no small fish is left.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Aerospace

[victor]

2 hours ago, Sven Silberbart said:

The RZ atm protect everyone including max level and they are much too big. I am fine with protecting new players, but at some point a new player must be PvP'ready, because this is a war server. Shrink or remove RF zones are the right way in my opinion. Personally i would like to have a newbee protecton zone around the capital, nothing more. Lets say a small zone where everyone under Master and Commander (not sailing a trader ship, cause of alts) rank couldn't be attacked. Everyone else having a higher rank are not protected. Sometimes i think the people dont want to protect the newbees, instead they want to have a PvE Heaven at war server.

Well, I could simply answer that sometimes I think that people don't want to PVP, instead they want to have a gankfest heaven.

But the point is another: if the PVP players will scare away too many preys from war servr (let alone if they are carebears or whatnot) they will end up having to prey on each other. And I'm not so sure that this is what a lot of them is disposed to face.

[Sven Silberbart]

A reinforcement zone simply does not match my understanding of a war(server). I am not a gladiator, i want to play as a simple captain in a bigger war of the nations. I dont like NA-L, because it feels artificial. Arena games bringing fast action and fun to me, but they do not bind me long time to a game. What makes me like NA is the sandbox, the whole world and the feeling to be part of a bigger war. The economy wich is cross-linked with the war. The RvR, because a RvR battle serves a bigger purpose (cap an important e.g.). Or the diplomacy options between nations (that is why i want to get back an improved ally system). Yes, a war is not fair and it never was. It is the nature of a war and I want to see NA as a war game, as it should be. That includes a dangerous carribean sea, wich means no safe zone for me (expect newbees).

Btw.. removing RZ brings danger to my enemies, but it also works the other way around. I am a father of 2 little kids, i have a full time job and i havent much time to play, only in the evening. But with the click onto the "join war server" - button i accept the risk to get caught by enemy players or groups of players, also when I am just want to do a fast PvE battle. I havent a problem with that.. that's war and just pixels. Actual I like the risk and the "panic" if i see a big enemy fleet turns towards me and i have to run as fast as i can or call for help.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Sven Silberbart

[Zoky]

@admin Can you hurry up with removal of reinforcement zones, please ty 😎

[King of Crowns]

18 hours ago, admin said:

Reinforcements zones will be reduced or removed completely. Capital protected area will remain

RZs are not needed on the war server.
They did not deliver on their goal to increase retention on the war server and the only place where they increase retention is the Peace server (when the whole world is safe). 
In reality the only 2 parameters that affect online growth on the PVP server and they are

• pvp assists - best correlation. If you have pvp assists you stay in the game longest (not longer per day - longer overall - you basically play more)
• pve assists - second best correlation. If you have pve assists you stay in the game longer

Thats why battles are open now for the weaker side and we see un uptick in pvp kills as a result
Thats why doable group missions are coming back en force with great rewards.

Community can help by actively recruiting rookies into their pvp or pve organizations. 

sad to see that yall waited to till everyone quit before you removed the things that killed the game. HOWEVER this is a great move moving into the launch of the game. don't let the crybabys talk you into walking it back again. 

[King of Crowns]

12 hours ago, Socialism said:

Prussian noobs also use ports out of the way to do their farming (no one goes to the top of haiti), as does the Russian noobs up in their location oriented safe zone.  Poland is a better example and how they were farmed out of the game a couple of times.  In fact as I write this I remember back during the prussia/pirate war we made an effort to go to those ports at the top of haiti and sink HANSA traders.  They were tired of it immediately and it was one of the reasons why we made a peace deal.  

Fact of the matter is that safe zones either need to exist and be 100% safe (no pvp) or need to be removed completed.  Admin has chose to remove them, but I think his reasoning is incorrect.  We have not tested 100% safe reinforcement zones and he is using a flawed system to form his opinions.  Personally I'd like to test the idea of an expanded capital zone that allows for no PVP battles and see what the results would be.

Players left the game for the PVE server because of several factors - 

Lineships are expensive to make and easy to lose
Unsafe Reinforcement zones
Little incentive to PVP outside capital areas
RVR mega zergs that steam roll territory
PVE server won't be wiped. 

To say that safe zones didn't work and people moved over to the peace server because of that reason alone is a fallacy.  

when did you get unbanned? did you bend the knee and kiss the ring?

safe zones needs to go period. #atlas has no safe zones. and people play. 

 

[Rabman]

Safe zones are a crutch that in no way help a player get oriented in the world. They offer a false sense of security that make you think its safe, but it is in fact not safe. Someone said above they got sunk 22 times going to a mission. I have to ask, why did you not stop at the 2nd or 3rd time? Why continue smashing your head into a wall when its not working. Reach out to the community in game and find a solution, and start working cooperatively in an MMO. Then you might say, why should I have to cooperate in a game with thousands of players, well for exactly that reason, there are thousands of people who want to sink someone. It's dangerous to go alone.

Even the US PvE guys would huddle together around Cabo and farm the french third rate fleet, no one ganked the ten or twenty of them out there around the clock farming that fleet.

Our clan practically leveled 100% from PvP on release; in random ships captured from NPC's or players. Mostly Snows or Renomees. Things were much more dangerous then than they are now. No safe zones, tons of gank fleets everywhere; we were greenhorns. Compare 2500 people on the water versus 200-300 NA prime time; it's ridiculous. Literally find a port out of the way and farm your bots in peace. The giant safe zones everywhere haven't protected anyone, the coast guard used to do that job and you need players for that. The safe zones were a crutch due to the diminishing population. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Rabman

[Palatinose]

The issue isn't black and white. Agreed to both sides: @victor points out correctly that this feature will mainly leave non-experienced players with problems. On the other hand has it been this way even with RZs: those who understood the mechanics used them and did not lose much/anything. 

@Rabman compared to the times you describe, many factors have been added: stronk clans will have the best materials and ships, coming out of newb mode is a longer way. PvP is not everywhere like in the days, it's limited and in many cases a pro vs. noob game. With 2.5k players, no big differences in woods and mods, cheap ships pvp was everywhere as the time/effort to reenter it, was fairly lower than now. Meaning players who start now will have a much harder time to get ships and therefore competibility in combat.

For a long time I was so annoyed of all the RAs sitting in their cosy warmth until I realized, if there is just more players, statistic tells me, there will be more of those ready to leave. I wouldn't care if we went all hardcore, but neither me nor you are casuals. I entirely lack the understanding for this way to play, but for numbers' sake make the zones entirely safe but the "real" ow more rewarding. I fear as others said already that there won't be more PvP as players with a desire for peaceful gaming and partial excitement will choose the peace server now rather than become targets. One server for all game styles.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Fine with the capital zone but the reinforcement zones just do not seem to have really any purpose. They are too large to be beneficial. Just having the capital zone will work seeing the NPC traffic that currently goes into those ports being majority no bigger than a 6th rate. Easy ships to fight for a solo new player or someone with more experience to help a new player become more comfortable with the game. While much larger NPC fleets of higher class of ships tend to be already outside these zones. Places like Puerto De Espana or Portobelo have large amount of 5th rates and above coming in and out of those areas. When the final wipe happens players will need to move out farther from the capital areas to actually rank up efficiently and unlock slots if they prefer to grind via PvE and grind missions.