Patch 30: General feedback

[Jan van Santen]

28 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

wrong ship mate 😃
I think he was arguing about the indef being 4th rate, which effectively changes nothing apart from the missions stated above

Rofl to "changes nothing"

It makes the ship useless, is that nothing ?

As a 4th rate its subpar to the Aga and thus useless. So now ican neither be used in 5th and 4th patrol...

Granted, Devs are free to do that in an Early Acess game, but why ???

Balance in SP has already been proven not to be an argument by tthe example of LReq in 6th SP

 Any1 here seriously seeing 2 classes difference between LReq and Indefat ?? 

Same for the Connie: as 3rd its no match to a Bellona and for 4th rated patrols it cant be used anymore.

Thus for PvE the effect of todays reclassing equals 2 ship wipes. Weren't we told there are no ship wipes on PvE ??

Thank god i didnt put any effort into a Connie ....and I get 3 free dockspaces, formerly occupied by now useless Indefats....

Edited March 5, 2019 by Jan van Santen

[Neads O'Tune]

5 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Means nothing? lol It means hello kittying load of things, shows how little you know about game mechanics.

1. Connie is now forced to use 1-3 rate books which are often much weaker than 4-5 books (consider it a nerf for both USS US and Connie, already weak ships that have "planned buff" somewhere "in the near future /soon/"

 

Then the rate change should have been saved until the changes to the ship itself were made

[Abram Svensson]

4 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Means nothing? lol It means hello kittying load of things, shows how little you know about game mechanics.

1. Connie is now forced to use 1-3 rate books which are often much weaker than 4-5 books (consider it a nerf for both USS US and Connie, already weak ships that have "planned buff" somewhere "in the near future /soon/"

2. Connies and USS US won't be allowed in 4th rate patrols, which is a bit ridiculous.

3. You will need a higher level shipyard (3, which is very expensive) to build Connies/USS US. 

Do I need to keep going with how it changes a lot of things for worse/more complicated?

We are talking about the Indefatigable and not the Conni.

Start reading my posts before you start to critisize my game knowledge.

[Percival Merewether]

23 minutes ago, admin said:

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

Wouldn't it be wise to leave the material quality out for the creation of base stats in-game?

In my opinion it should be so that an Oak/Oak Bellona in-game has similiar stats to a Live/White Constitution.. In real life it would be a true nightmare scenario for a ship like to Constitution to go up against a Ship of the Line built with the same quality of materials as she was. And I'm fairly certain that a regular Oak built british 74-SotL would devastate the USS Constitution.

EDIT: On a completely different note: do we even need rating in-game when we have BR?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Percival Merewether

[van Veen]

Let's stop exchange of arguments and just vote  

[Tom Farseer]

11 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

As a 4th rate its subpar to the Aga and thus useless. So now ican neither be used in 5th and 4th patrol...

Not with current armament options. Carro indef melts Aggy. Period. Seen it happen twice, yesterday, done it myself once right after as well. It it needs a difference in skill of both players but it is far from useless.

[Tom Farseer]

9 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

EDIT: On a completely different note: do we even need rating in-game when we have BR?

As long as missions are based on ship rates, yes.
Logical conclusion: @admin maybe think about connecting mission tiers to BR rather than ship class? (Viability of that option is obviously dependent on coding effort)

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tom Farseer
grammar

[AeRoTR]

Why don't we limit carros to only upperdecks? Will solve all carro related problems like full carro ships melting bigger ship. No need to change ship rating just because carro opness. 

[Zlatkowar]

45 minutes ago, admin said:

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

Why don't you make BR the priority stat over ship rate and make it variable instead of fixed as it is now? Base it on broadside weight (varies with what cannons you have equipped), wood type and maybe upgrades equipped and/or crew % (don't know how far you want to push the BR calculation and what makes most sense).

This would probably be much harder to fine tune, and limitations would be needed to avoid absurd scenarios, but it would add to diversity in builds and ship choice and add some uncertainty in fights as it is harder to guess what kind of ships you have in front of you.

[Jan van Santen]

29 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Not with current armament options. Carro indef melts Aggy. Period. Seen it happen twice, yesterday, done it myself once right after as well. It it needs a difference in skill of both players but it is far from useless.

You forgot poods and PvE.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Jan van Santen

[LeBoiteux]

Can't we halve the 5th Rate group and have in game, say, 8th Rates with the lightest frigates in a Rate and the heaviest in another ? Having HMS Cerberus and Trinco/Endymion in the same Rate and mixing 5th Rates of 174x and 5th Rates of 180x is not logical.

At least, a thorough review of in-game Rates taking into account the actually implemented ships, not the historical labels, would be nice.

 

PS : And please, give PvE server access to L'Hermione and the Wasa (ship notes or blueprints).

Edited March 5, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, admin said:

US Super frigates were built so tough so they could be considered third rates - we finally came to peace to this (US players will remember heated discussions about it). Superfrigates = third rates
Indefatigable has such high DPM and HP so it does not make ANY sense to be called a 5th rate. It's not a 5th rate. 
 

The constitution would be closer to an endymion than she would be 3rd rate in real life and in game. The US superfrigates are also overrated in my opinion but I guess rating matters little. Is that not a nerf to the ship mod wise since mods are stronger 4-5th?

 

 

 

 

[Jan van Santen]

Either the 5a, 5 b 5 c under-class ranking  or BR as an ingame classification instead of the pure historical rate ranking: both  make (ingame) a lot more sense.

Or, if it boils down to  SP : ship by ship. 2 LReq's vs each other is as fair as 2 5th rated Indefats.

[admin]

10 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Can't we halve the 5th Rate group and have in game, say, 8th Rates with the lightest frigates in a Rate and the heaviest in another ? Having HMS Cerberus and Trinco/Endymion in the same Rate and mixing 5th Rates of 174x and 5th Rates of 180x is not logical.

At least, a thorough review of in-game Rates taking into account the actually implemented ships, not the historical labels, would be nice.

 

PS : And please, give PvE server access to L'Hermione and the Wasa (ship notes or blueprints).

pve server will get the opportunity to convert doubloons to combat medals once price stabilize - soon - we know that you can't get them and will fix it.

[HachiRoku]

3 minutes ago, Borch said:

Oh, but they did.

 

indef going from 5th rates to 4th rates has 0 influence ingame. BR matters. I'm currently wondering why 4-5th rates have better mods than 1-3rd rates anyway. Except for mods I really don't care about the connies rating and to be fair I do not use any mods that are restricted to ratings. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by HachiRoku

[LeBoiteux]

1 hour ago, Malachi said:

Since you´re such an educated fellow, please elaborate on this. And what does 'block' mean in this context?

Come on ! You actually do not know that the Royal Navy used blocks ?

Ah ! Ah ! Ah ! 

Here is for your education :

 

(interesting flag btw :- )

Edited March 5, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Tom Farseer]

Holy smokes! I know you wanted to increase difficulty for Group Kill missions, but that seems like overkill to me.
Three 4th rates against two 1st rates AND three 3rd rates? Seems a bit over the top. Finetuning, is the thing we are looking for

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tom Farseer
spelling mistakes

[Sir Texas Sir]

 

3 hours ago, admin said:

based on its hp and firepower its a 4th rate.

I do n't k now it doesn't have a 3rd deck and your assuming that folks run 42's on the second decks to get that fire power.  

So I looked at three 3rd rates ships made of T/WO

USS United States 12994 hp

Constitiution          13730

3rd Rate                  14841

Seem they got a bit less HP's than the Bellona/3rd.  At least let the Connie and US be faster than the Belloa/3rd.  Some one got the Wasa to check on it's states too? 

1 hour ago, admin said:

Joke
Thats why you can change that status quo in 3 simple steps

1. Raise hostility in that port
2. Win the port battle
3. Take the city
4. [Optional] Hear the lamentations of their women in global chat.

You probably dont even have to wait for so long. You can just take it right away when you find out they have it.

On the serious note.
If you know where resource are you can take it. The clan owners will decide what they do with it. We won't tell them what to do. It's theirs. Part of the game.
 

Issue comes when the map gets owned by mainly top clans and the little guys can't take ports from these guys.  This is why BR's need to be looked at.  Even the bad players if they have numbers might win, compared to a small hard core clan that has a tight group and can hold down ports with off times and small BR's from a much larger nation/player base that is made of causals and new players.  

And we haven't even gotten into the problem of getting screened out of fights by friends all the time of those nations/clans.   

It might be good to do a map reset once in a blue moon so the game doens't grow stale like it has in the past with the same folks owning certain ports since pretty much the last wipe.

1 hour ago, Neads O'Tune said:

And for the nations that lock their ports behind night timers?

The ports that have infinity resources should not be able to have timers, they should be able to war over at any time of the day/night.  That will make them exchange hands a lot.  Remember also your night is others days and your days is there nights.  The problem is when folks put the ports in totally off times like AUS/SEA times even though it's not a clan made up of those players.  They just put it when it's hardest for any one else to flip.

1 hour ago, admin said:

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

I wouldn't say 1-2K more is almost equal.  

26 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

You forgot poods and PvE.

 poods will be wiped soon so will be very rare.

13 minutes ago, admin said:

pve server will get the opportunity to convert doubloons to combat medals once price stabilize - soon - we know that you can't get them and will fix it.

shhhhhh last week I told them they should play PvP if they want PvP rewards, don't let them think we are going to be nice and let them have them......lol  

[OjK]

@Tom Farseer near Vieques?

Where the hell did You get this screenshot from? ;-)))

 

I really wish, that fixes and changes would be more like "repainting the walls" if they got dirty, not building whole house from scratch again.
Small changes and adjustments, not some huge overhaul.

Also, it wasn't Connie that needed nerf for beeing too strong 4th rate in comparison.
It was other 4ths that required some serious buffs.

Edited March 5, 2019 by OjK

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Holy smokes! I know you wanted to increase difficulty for Group Kill missions, but that seems like overkill to me.
Three 4th rates against two 1st rates AND three 3rd rates? Seems a bit over the top. Finetuning, is the thing we are looking for

Group missions are hard raids, that do not require long travels (unlike hunt or S&D missions)
 

[OjK]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Group missions are hard raids, that do not require long travels (unlike hunt or S&D missions)

It's mission for 3 people.

If I'll take Agamemnon on that mission, after one salvo from a 1st rate, I'm already out of side armor.
My salvo won't even make it 20% of his.

Can't angle, as actually AI has annoying tendency to single shot every cannon.

My first friend has to fight another 1st Rate.

And my last friend, need to fight 3x3rd rates.

 

Nope. It's not a "hard mission"
It's impossible mission, wasting space on the list, cause no one will do them.

[admin]

3 minutes ago, OjK said:

It's mission for 3 people.

If I'll take Agamemnon on that mission, after one salvo from a 1st rate, I'm already out of side armor.
My salvo won't even make it 20% of his.

Can't angle, as actually AI has annoying tendency to single shot every cannon.

My first friend has to fight another 1st Rate.

And my last friend, need to fight 3x3rd rates.

 

Nope. It's not a "hard mission"
It's impossible mission, wasting space on the list, cause no one will do them.

Of course it is going to be an impossible mission if you use tactics described in your post
What you should do is focus fire and first gang up on the first rate, then on the second one, then finish the 3rd rates one by one. 
 

[Neads O'Tune]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

Group missions are hard raids, that do not require long travels (unlike hunt or S&D missions)
 

Even harder if you are the only one that gets pulled into the mission. You should have waited until that problem was fixed until making this change.

As well as waiting until you have given the Conni variants 3rd rate stats before giving them a 3rd rate classifaction.

[Teutonic]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Of course it is going to be an impossible mission if you use tactics described in your post
What you should do is focus fire and first gang up on the first rate, then on the second one, then finish the 4rd rates one by one. 
 

These group missions are like "Mini-Epics" and they are great.

These missions force the group that joins them to coordinate together to overcome the odds. I do think some of the NPC setups you have to fight are a little too strong, but you're right. If you decide to 1v1 each NPC you're doing it wrong.

[Tom Farseer]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

What you should do is focus fire and first gang up on the first rate, then on the second one, then finish the 3rd rates one by one. 

which you cannot do. After 3 minutes one Aggy is effectively out of the fight. So you have two ships against the same amount of enemies. wich means in turn the next aggy will last about 3 minutes more... I agree that group kill missions were a bit on the easy side. but you overshot a little on the adjustment in my opinion.