Patch 30: Trading feedback

[Tom Farseer]

I recently found several ports that, according to the API (at least on @Felix Victor's beautiful map) neither drop nor consume any trade goods or resources.
Prime example being Carriacou.
Barahona is another port that has no trading but at least that allows resource production.

@admin
Is that by design or did some ports just fall through the gaps?

Edit: I just found antother one: Cayo del Anclote. Those ports are utterly useless now. Kinda makes paying for them a bad idea. Perpetually neutral ports can't be your objective on this^^

Edited March 7, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[Ink]

6 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

I recently found several ports that, according to the API (at least on @Felix Victor's beautiful map) neither drop nor consume any trade goods or resources.
Prime example being Carriacou.
Barahona is another port that has no trading but at least that allows resource production.

@admin
Is that by design or did some ports just fall through the gaps?

Edit: I just found antother one: Cayo del Anclote. Those ports are utterly useless now. Kinda makes paying for them a bad idea. Perpetually neutral ports can't be your objective on this^^

except Barahona the said ports (there are about 20 of them in total) will be merged into nearby counties at a bit later stage just like recently merged Little River

 

[Sir Max Magic]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Honestly, it would make sense to compartmentalize the currencies somewhat by play style... Reals for traders, doubloons for PvE'ers, and combat medals for PvP'ers.  Let the market sort out their exchange rates.

Absolutely agree on the second part ! +1

I already asked me when looking at the new economy on the testbed, why in God's name those Passenger and Delivery Missions gets Dubs as rewards...instead of well needed Reals !

Because reals were even before the wipe in high demand for many Players who couldnt afford anymore to buy ships or more advanced upgrades !!!  

Only rich players like me  or people relying on clan support didnt had issues with Reals...

...but for newer or lower ranked Players, it was AND is much harder to get their hands on reals as on Dubs  

This didnt changed with the new Delivery system...

 

And when now some smartasses come and state: "Hell, then they should sell their Dubs earned in Delivery Misiions for their needed reals"

...i oppose:

Only ONE Player at a time can sell his Dubs !

And those are mostly the already rich ones who can afford to cancel their contracts when they were undercutted !!!

But good luck for a new Player who needs REALS to get him a new Ship, who needs REALS to repair his damaged one, who needs REALS to buy new Crew and Cannons to compete with already rich Players in selling Dubs...  

He will always lose and waste even more Reals for contract fees which will never get sold...

 

So in my view, @Wraith is absolutely right here... @admin should sort the different curreencies for the different ways to play the game  

 

And btw.: where are the mentionend Trading Contracts which could get new Players Reals WITHOUT them having to spent hundreds of thousand Reals to get the Trading Goods first ???

Inventing Trading Contracts, which People could just pick to get a heavily weighted chest which cant be openend to avoid cheating with alts, for which they get Reals at the destination port  

 

@admin should seriously think about adding those

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[Archaos]

12 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

I already asked me when looking at the new economy on the testbed, why in God's name those Passenger and Delivery Missions gets Dubs as rewards...instead of well needed Reals !

Although I agree that there is a need for better Reals reward from something, I am not so sure the pax and delivery missions are the right place. Traders need to trade goods and currently one of the best trade goods that will help a nation are the rare clan resources and these require lots of doubloons. It is mainly the cost of these and how difficult they make getting doubloons that  will determine the price traders will sell the rare resources. I currently have an order in for 5k live oak which I plan to sell to people in my nation and I will do the same with other rare resources as I can afford the doubloons.

Currently the hardest profession in the game is ship crafters as they require all currencies, they need doubloons or Reals to get the rare resources, they need combat medals to get many ship permits now and they require victory marks to get other ship permits. They state they want to make ships more accessible yet the changes make it harder to craft ships unless you are in a big clan that can divide up the tasks of obtaining the various currencies.

[Angus MacDuff]

So I am moving resources back and forth, making money.  Small start fund means taking longer but im up to 200K and can consider a second trade ship for carrying.  All good.  I honestly can't see how I could do this without the trader tool, though.  Would I have to buy goods and just hope that they will be worth my efforts??  I know that a longer journey can mean more profit, but would I invest more than an hour of my time making that trip if I wasn't sure of a profit at the end?  @admin, I don't see how we can do this without some idea of potential profit/loss at the end of a journey.

[Aquillas]

2 hours ago, Ink said:

except Barahona the said ports (there are about 20 of them in total) will be merged into nearby counties at a bit later stage just like recently merged Little River

Is this the case for all former free towns, that are no more now? In this case, lovely change!

[Ink]

1 minute ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

Is this the case for all former free towns, that are no more now? In this case, lovely change!

yes, a former free towns

[Sir Max Magic]

56 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

So I am moving resources back and forth, making money.  Small start fund means taking longer but im up to 200K and can consider a second trade ship for carrying.  All good.  I honestly can't see how I could do this without the trader tool, though.  Would I have to buy goods and just hope that they will be worth my efforts??  I know that a longer journey can mean more profit, but would I invest more than an hour of my time making that trip if I wasn't sure of a profit at the end?  @admin, I don't see how we can do this without some idea of potential profit/loss at the end of a journey.

Agree +1

 

...but Trader Tool should be correct about Prices atleast  

Yesterday i hauled Chinese Books from KPR to Carriacou:

- Trader Tool stated at Carriacou selling Price would be 11.800

- in Reality, selling price was only 10.100

---> This is 11,68 % less than expected !!!

 

When you now take into account that i had to pay around 7.000 plus tax = 7.700, and only got 9.090 including tax out... thats barely worth a 2 1/2 Hours boring trading trip

(all prices are estimated but roughly correct...todays prices are ofc different ones than yesterday)

 

I understand that Trader Tool cant be used to show the current supply of Goods in specific ports...but it should be atleast correct about the Prices for the day !

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Ink said:

except Barahona the said ports (there are about 20 of them in total) will be merged into nearby counties at a bit later stage just like recently merged Little River

 

Uh but Little River and St Mary are still captureable ports. They still haven't been merged into that region yet.

[Ink]

26 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Uh but Little River and St Mary are still captureable ports. They still haven't been merged into that region yet.

you are right, but eventually all such ports will be merged into nearby counties

[Tom Farseer]

4 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said:

I understand that Trader Tool cant be used to show the current supply of Goods in specific ports...but it should be atleast correct about the Prices for the day !

Unless that changed, prices change whenever stuff gets sold or bought there. I have sat in cartagena before with 4 Indiamin full of textile machinery, while the price was 0. Waiting for the amount that someone sold before me dissappear.

[angriff]

Wow I just saw all the letter and passenger mission out of a port gone.  That is the first time I saw that.  Maybe this loading up all the missions is a bit of a worry.. Maybe you should have to carry provisions or fish if you have passengers.. maybe so much per passenger to reduce the taking of them.  Maybe just have them regenerate during the day like some supplies now.

[angriff]

Also we were looking at the Trader tool for some objects like Arabian Books.  Taking it to the end of the map you can get 12k versus buying for 4.8K.  However, if you take them to KPR instead you only get 7.2k  which make sense distance bonus.  However, what does not make sense is that port will sell them for 32K which is higher than the highest price you can sell them for.  It would make a better trading sense if you could pick them up in KPR after a small profit by the KPR store sayfor 8.2K leaving 3.8K for a guy buying them in KPR to take them all the way to Santo Tome

[Sir Texas Sir]

25 minutes ago, angriff said:

Also we were looking at the Trader tool for some objects like Arabian Books.  Taking it to the end of the map you can get 12k versus buying for 4.8K.  However, if you take them to KPR instead you only get 7.2k  which make sense distance bonus.  However, what does not make sense is that port will sell them for 32K which is higher than the highest price you can sell them for.  It would make a better trading sense if you could pick them up in KPR after a small profit by the KPR store sayfor 8.2K leaving 3.8K for a guy buying them in KPR to take them all the way to Santo Tome

If you see them for something like 32K that is prob a consumption port.  A port that gives you a good price for it and you will never make a profit off buying goods out of that port of those type.  Since you mention KPR, it's a consumption port, it's made to sale goods in not buy them (trade goods that is).   Why would they buy them from you and than sale them back for them to loose a profit?  

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

5 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said:

---> This is 11,68 % less than expected !!!

Alright, so far I knew there is bible-thumbing. Now I learn about something new, it is called calculator-thumbing. And needs to be expressed in bold letters, no less!

[angriff]

4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

If you see them for something like 32K that is prob a consumption port.  A port that gives you a good price for it and you will never make a profit off buying goods out of that port of those type.  Since you mention KPR, it's a consumption port, it's made to sale goods in not buy them (trade goods that is).   Why would they buy them from you and than sale them back for them to loose a profit?  

It has to do with a realistic economy.  The Sales price is of no use whatsoever in game play value at KPR at the higher price.  The price to take them to furthest point is maximum value of that product. 

Just as I can buy things in the UK that comes from China then take it to the US for even more profit that is how economies run.   If there is no real demand or consumption driving up the price in KPR though they can be consumed they are not directly.  The value lies in further distant ports that would continue the voyage and make the game function as a real economy.  Since it is fictitiously stopped in KPR with a fictitious demand and high sale price there is no true value of transport other than bypass that port.

I take a local good as far as I can so I maximize the profit.  This also stimulate the production  of other goods 

Edited March 8, 2019 by angriff

[I Shot Got]

 

Ok I tested this trading and this is what I have found.

After the wipe I started with the 150.000 Reals plus sold some ships to bring my total to 800.000 Reals starting money.

I bought high value goods but sold them on a medium profit route which took two and a half hours to sail. I then bought high value items and some of the next highest items (to fill the holds) and sailed them even further and sold them also buying goods in that port. I worked under the premise of carrying the highest value cargo I could in four Indiaman with a total of 155 items allowing space for fish and the completely missing bottles of mythology. I eventually returned to Christiansted and at the end of 2475km and 11 hours sailing and had 3.2mil Reals in the bank.

Good you say, well I'll be honest, it's not what I said. I'm not sure where 11 hours being glued to a screen watching the odd fish be caught and having to hit a button every 30 mins so I could keep sailing was fun. In fact it was flat out bloody boring. I am at a loss how this is an improvement to the game. Furthermore no way in hell could this run have been made on the PvP server without the loss of all 4 Indiaman used. Yes I tested it on PvE because as stated it would have been absolutely pointless as a lone player attempting this run on PvP.

Additionally I have an issue with having this 30 min time out - if players are going to be forced to make these mind numbing long distance trading runs please do me the favour of increasing it to 2 hours or even 3 hours so I can leave the computer and go and do something meaningful with my time while waiting for this travesty of a trade route to end. I don't run macros and I refuse to place items on, or jam, my keyboard so it negates this blasted timer. 

Add to the fact that clans can swamp short run routes with small profit margins at no risk in large numbers to make massive profits clearly defeats the point of money only being made from long runs . Alt accounts also defeat this system.

Simply put you won't stop players/clans becoming insanely rich on either PvP or PvE.

Regards Shot.

PS and how many bottles did you think I picked up over that 2475km and 11 hours of sailing.

 

[Abram Svensson]

25 minutes ago, I Shot Got said:

 

Ok I tested this trading and this is what I have found.

After the wipe I started with the 150.000 Reals plus sold some ships to bring my total to 800.000 Reals starting money.

I bought high value goods but sold them on a medium profit route which took two and a half hours to sail. I then bought high value items and some of the next highest items (to fill the holds) and sailed them even further and sold them also buying goods in that port. I worked under the premise of carrying the highest value cargo I could in four Indiaman with a total of 155 items allowing space for fish and the completely missing bottles of mythology. I eventually returned to Christiansted and at the end of 2475km and 11 hours sailing and had 3.2mil Reals in the bank.

Good you say, well I'll be honest, it's not what I said. I'm not sure where 11 hours being glued to a screen watching the odd fish be caught and having to hit a button every 30 mins so I could keep sailing was fun. In fact it was flat out bloody boring. I am at a loss how this is an improvement to the game. Furthermore no way in hell could this run have been made on the PvP server without the loss of all 4 Indiaman used. Yes I tested it on PvE because as stated it would have been absolutely pointless as a lone player attempting this run on PvP.

Additionally I have an issue with having this 30 min time out - if players are going to be forced to make these mind numbing long distance trading runs please do me the favour of increasing it to 2 hours or even 3 hours so I can leave the computer and go and do something meaningful with my time while waiting for this travesty of a trade route to end. I don't run macros and I refuse to place items on, or jam, my keyboard so it negates this blasted timer. 

Add to the fact that clans can swamp short run routes with small profit margins at no risk in large numbers to make massive profits clearly defeats the point of money only being made from long runs . Alt accounts also defeat this system.

Simply put you won't stop players/clans becoming insanely rich on either PvP or PvE.

Regards Shot.

PS and how many bottles did you think I picked up over that 2475km and 11 hours of sailing.

 

11 hours? which route did you sail?

Basically i´d say it is your decision how long you want to sail / what profit you want to make.

[I Shot Got]

 

It's a GAME not a job, it's meant to be fun not a chore!

Shot

 

[Sir Max Magic]

14 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Alright, so far I knew there is bible-thumbing. Now I learn about something new, it is called calculator-thumbing. And needs to be expressed in bold letters, no less!

You Guys are going on my nerves...i write and structure my text as i want !

I am over 50 years old and no Boy green behind his ears will tell me how i have to act...Period !!!

So ignore my texts or leave no comment...but when you leave a comment, it had to be directed WHAT i have written and not HOW !

 

Got me ?

[Sir Max Magic]

41 minutes ago, I Shot Got said:

 

Ok I tested this trading and this is what I have found.

After the wipe I started with the 150.000 Reals plus sold some ships to bring my total to 800.000 Reals starting money.

I bought high value goods but sold them on a medium profit route which took two and a half hours to sail. I then bought high value items and some of the next highest items (to fill the holds) and sailed them even further and sold them also buying goods in that port. I worked under the premise of carrying the highest value cargo I could in four Indiaman with a total of 155 items allowing space for fish and the completely missing bottles of mythology. I eventually returned to Christiansted and at the end of 2475km and 11 hours sailing and had 3.2mil Reals in the bank.

Good you say, well I'll be honest, it's not what I said. I'm not sure where 11 hours being glued to a screen watching the odd fish be caught and having to hit a button every 30 mins so I could keep sailing was fun. In fact it was flat out bloody boring. I am at a loss how this is an improvement to the game. Furthermore no way in hell could this run have been made on the PvP server without the loss of all 4 Indiaman used. Yes I tested it on PvE because as stated it would have been absolutely pointless as a lone player attempting this run on PvP.

Additionally I have an issue with having this 30 min time out - if players are going to be forced to make these mind numbing long distance trading runs please do me the favour of increasing it to 2 hours or even 3 hours so I can leave the computer and go and do something meaningful with my time while waiting for this travesty of a trade route to end. I don't run macros and I refuse to place items on, or jam, my keyboard so it negates this blasted timer. 

Add to the fact that clans can swamp short run routes with small profit margins at no risk in large numbers to make massive profits clearly defeats the point of money only being made from long runs . Alt accounts also defeat this system.

Simply put you won't stop players/clans becoming insanely rich on either PvP or PvE.

Regards Shot.

PS and how many bottles did you think I picked up over that 2475km and 11 hours of sailing.

 

Absolutely agree +1

You forgot to add what happens AFTER release when noone of us has 800.000 Reals to his exposal  

Now add even more, when new players come fresh to the game, have no clue what to do and will quickly struggle to earn enough reals to keep their ships and crew seaworthy !

 

I will predict, if everything stays the same, all we vets will stare at our Reals every day and wondering how we can raise them so we can buy or craft the next bigger ship

And no, selling stuff to other people via contracts will not work because noone has reals  

 

...we need much more sources of real income than trading alone !

Atleast Kill Missions should get Reals again as Mission Reward like it did in the old system...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2.4 millions, in 11 hours. That's like... login/logoff 2 hour sessions ( hops from port to port ) across a week ( or two weeks of every other day playing NA) .

Not bad for a "bloody casual". Perfectly acceptable.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, I Shot Got said:

PS and how many bottles did you think I picked up over that 2475km and 11 hours of sailing.

Hah! Possibly 1 probably 0. The old droprate was roughly 1 bottle pr. 24 real hours. According to my unscientific but extensive testing the droprate has been lowered dramatically. Don't worry about it, though, the quality of wreck contents has been dropped too. Only approximately 1 out of 5 bottles gives you nice things.

So sail around for two weeks, day and night, and you'll find one wreck that makes you happy.

[jodgi]

10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Perfectly acceptable.

You absolute madman!

[Tom Farseer]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Good you say, well I'll be honest, it's not what I said. I'm not sure where 11 hours being glued to a screen watching the odd fish be caught and having to hit a button every 30 mins so I could keep sailing was fun. In fact it was flat out bloody boring. I am at a loss how this is an improvement to the game. Furthermore no way in hell could this run have been made on the PvP server without the loss of all 4 Indiaman used. Yes I tested it on PvE because as stated it would have been absolutely pointless as a lone player attempting this run on PvP.

1. You chose to spend 11 hours non-stop on trading? Why would you even do that in the first place?
2. I and others regularly make Trade runs with 3 Indiamen (don't go fir/Fir no guns...) plus one main warship on the PvP Server. You can do it, just don't take the routes with the highest risk. In fact @Gregory Rainsborough has been doin little else than semi-AFK trading while reading up for his studies.
3. You made 3.2 million reals in less than a day. Even with sinking one semi-expensive warship per day in PvP that would hold you up for three or four days. Not counting the rewards you get by sinking people.
   For upkeep while doing mainly PvE missions that will have you set up for weeks if you half know what you are doing.

So what exactly is your point here?