Patch 30: Trading feedback

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

Very simple.

I made some PvP and lost ships.For replacing, I started mine exploitation (coal, iron, oak, fir, hemp) to resume crafting capability. I did not notice that this is now a ruining activity. I saw, after hemp collection, too late, that my reals vanished to some dozens left only.

I tried to get back to healty situation by hunting NPC traders. I went from Fort-Royal to near Scarborough, and found nothing worth, then to North of la Desirade, in my brand new oak/oak medium gun Cerberus.I filled the hold with fish and salt before finally finding a single traders  snow, which I captured. 

So great! At the end of this boring 3 hours, I earned 3 salted pork... This gave 4k reals, after selling the traders too.

i think 1 prob is that you cant make money with fights anymore. the repairs are more expensive than what you get after the fight

[Aquillas]

@admin

Also another point. From PvP, I got no medals. Because I didn't went to patrol area. The access to these areas is difficult for players who have no output near Haiti. My clan mates told me yesterday to go to there. Will I have to bore again two or three hours, through empty seas in  a trader to put necessary repairs there? Do you think boring two more hours would give a solution?

We need far more outpost than the present limit, something like 2 times the present limit, for increasing mobility and fun.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Eleazar de Damas

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

 

I tried to get back to healty situation by hunting NPC traders. I went from Fort-Royal to near Scarborough, and found nothing worth, then to North of la Desirade, in my brand new oak/oak medium gun Cerberus.I filled the hold with fish and salt before finally finding a single traders  snow, which I captured. 

So great! At the end of this boring 3 hours, I earned 3 salted pork... This gave 4k reals, after selling the traders too.

You should change your tactics a bit
If you lose all ships in pvp you need indeed to recover losses. 

• If you like trading. Find two hubs in a distant destinations (in safer areas) and trade goods between them. I know some players are making 150-500k per run on expensive goods. Cheap goods are perfect for short routes - 15 mins can make 10k per run. Expensive goods are not profitable at short routes but make huge margins on longer runs
• If you like trader hunting, looking for traders in Central Antilles is not optimal - they tend to concentrate in zones without national capitals. 
• If you like sinking NPCs, maybe capture them and sell to port (for higher level ships you get more for selling them to port than for sinking)
• I do not know the todays rate for combat medals - visit patrol every so often and sell the medals. 
• Sell doubloons from challenges or other activities (i think you can sell them at 20, but can be wrong, as the market is currently destabilized due to wipes uncertainty)

[Israel Hands]

9 hours ago, van der Decken said:

Every port has ships to buy from the admiralty and shipyard. It seems people just want only a perfect built ship and don't like that to be rare. I personally like rarity of items in game. I just don't like elite items for only elite players that can then decimate the populace.

The problem isn't "elite" items, the problem is that all items are so unbalanced that nobody in their right minds go PvP'ing in a shitty ship. Why play if all you are is lamb to someone elses slaughter? - Skill is not a factor in 1v1 PvP and ganking zones req a larger group and even then you're at a marked disadvantage compared to others. Add to that - some mods are elite and they are so wickedly overpowered that they in effect minimizes the ability of one side to demast whilst the other, especially with the new damage model, can completely demast an opponent with a single broadside.. Shitty mechanic basically.

29 minutes ago, admin said:

You should change your tactics a bit
If you lose all ships in pvp you need indeed to recover losses. 

• If you like trading. Find two hubs in a distant destinations (in safer areas) and trade goods between them. I know some players are making 150-500k per run on expensive goods. Cheap goods are perfect for short routes - 15 mins can make 10k per run. Expensive goods are not profitable at short routes but make huge margins on longer runs 
• If you like trader hunting, looking for traders in Central Antilles is not optimal - they tend to concentrate in zones without national capitals. 
• If you like sinking NPCs, maybe capture them and sell to port (for higher level ships you get more for selling them to port than for sinking)
• I do not know the todays rate for combat medals - visit patrol every so often and sell the medals. 
• Sell doubloons from challenges or other activities (i think you can sell them at 20, but can be wrong, as the market is currently destabilized due to wipes uncertainty)

I'll go point by point:

1: Why trade when there is nothing worthwhile to buy? The cycle of labour should be trading -> ressources for crafting -> crafting -> PvP'ing, PvP'ers should be able to buy ships from crafters that should be able to buy ressources from harvesters that should be able to sell ressources either to traders or crafters. Atm the rare woods are required for PvP ships due to imbalances of the woods and the mods, this exponentially increases the problem of ressources being increasingly clan-managed. These problems will only be increased if stuff actually becomes available for purchase as it is so easy to make reals in current system that inflation will quickly make it unrealistic for any new player to get into the game since all basic items are priced way outside of a new players capacity to earn reals.

2: Why hunt traders at all? - The RNG of the drop means that the likelyhood of rare woods etc. drops so infrequently that hunter trading is just downright boring and you get no sense of satisfaction from it. Even if it holds trading ressources it's not worth anything because you can't buy anything worthwhile.

3: You need medals to craft nearly every ship, even a rattlesnake req 2 combat medals and the only reason for crafting such a shitty ship (in todays combat model) is to look at it, it looks gorgeous btw.

4: Dubs are worthless, you can't get anything worthwhile for them and they drop too often.

[Israel Hands]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

yea, right. You are da best it's the equipment that makes it impossible to win

I never said I was the best, I've written extensively about PvP and never have I claimed to be the best. I am however the richest man on the server so when it comes to discussing trading and crafting I'm the expert. And for the record - does this not confirm my opinion from someone who actually rank as the best or there about:

 

Or what about this suggestion, does that not imply that there is an issue that needs to be adressed?:

 

 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 hour ago, admin said:

New building productions allow a solo player to build any oak/oak ship he wants in reasonable time

I don't want to build an oak/oak ship.  If i'm going to put expensive mods onto a ship, I want it to be the best possible build.  As a solo player (mostly) I am quite happy with the trading, but the resource extraction does seem quite high at the moment.  I still firmly believe that making resources too difficult to obtain is a bad idea.  They shouldn't fall into your lap for nothing, but I hope you can keep working on a balance so that more ships are in OW...not less.  The rare woods is going to continue to be a big issue as it will develop a two tier player base. 

[Hawkwood]

27 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

I am however the richest man on the server

No, you aren´t.

[Meraun]

17 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I don't want to build an oak/oak ship.  If i'm going to put expensive mods onto a ship, I want it to be the best possible build.  As a solo player (mostly) I am quite happy with the trading, but the resource extraction does seem quite high at the moment.  I still firmly believe that making resources too difficult to obtain is a bad idea.  They shouldn't fall into your lap for nothing, but I hope you can keep working on a balance so that more ships are in OW...not less.  The rare woods is going to continue to be a big issue as it will develop a two tier player base. 

Hmmm with beeing a Trader, can you not let someone build the Ship for you andy Pay him?

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Short trading runs are a bit of a waste of time.

Either or you go long runs (several hours) or you go against npc. It is a pitty because I liked trading.

 

I don't agree.  I have a run that is 15 minutes.  I make (approx.) 1k reals per item.  2 Indiamen generate 80k reals...plus the return run is almost as good. 

[Meraun]

 

40 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

. I am however the richest man on the server so when it comes to discussing trading and crafting I'm the expert.

 

How woud you know taht?

[Angus MacDuff]

1 hour ago, Meraun said:

Hmmm with beeing a Trader, can you not let someone build the Ship for you andy Pay him?

Who says im a trader?  I make enough money to get by, but I don't enjoy it.  I like to build the ships that I sail.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Angus MacDuff

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Intrepido said:

0% taxes?

Of course not.  But it is still a good amount of money and I don't waste a lot of my day trading.

[Vizzini]

Items like repairs and rum , which appear in ports should never be cheaper that the base cost of the resource and crafting hours. Right now they are just being hoovered up ( by me and others ) on contract and farmed out elsewhere, generating good returns. The minimum prices for these items should reflect the convenience and rise accordingly

[Suppenkelle]

3 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

I am however the richest man on the server 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Hawkwood said:

No, you aren´t.

Can we have a ranking for traders like for PvP @admin? 

 

[Palatinose]

8 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

For example these ones.

Perhaps ask @rediii which ship he would choose if offered for free.

There is a difference between advertising the use of other woods and denying the mathematical fact of rare woods' superiority. 

Nontheless we agree that the captains skill is more important. And that's all I'm argueing here for. 

[van der Clam]

@admin Is it intended that Cargo Optimization perk does not apply to fleet ships? Considering I am the only character that has control over each ship (no officers per ship) that my perks would apply to all ships in my fleet.

[Yehoodi]

On 3/2/2019 at 10:49 AM, angriff said:

I do have one criticism of the passenger and letter missions.  There seems to be a disparity in the coding to make mission rewards a function of distance of the crows flies.  This is tantamount of a taxi fare limit when going to Santa Maria on the South Coast of Cuba from Turneffe is 1300 doubloons and taking another passenger from the same starting point to San Sebastian on the Eastern Florida coast is 1600 which is quite a disparity in risk and actual time to sail around Cuba.   

I am not sure how this can disparity can be remedied but just plain straight distances as the Crow flies is not going to cut it.  It may require a matrix audit table that can be adjusted with time to reflect the reality of time travelled rather than straight distance.

I agree with this point.  As the crow files does not work and folks will simply will not take them, as i have not taken these deliveries.  

And it should be by ocean distance, something that might be difficult to code.

One way i would think to do it, altho would take human time, is to take rough distances between a hand full of ports from one end of the map to the other to get a linear line of ocean sailing.  For example go to Charleston, and look on trader tool for distance from CT to Islamorado, and then to Islamorado and see distance from that port to say San Marcos, to get a rough idea of sea distance from CT to San Marcos.  Just a thought.  Again it just need to be rough, but it is  a lot longer than the crows flies distance between CT and San Marcos

 

 

[Yehoodi]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:40 PM, Archaos said:

Thats not the point, its the fact that it is possible to make so many doubloons on a single run.

In fact is a single t.Lynx can carry 50k doubloons without the hold optimization perk and 60k doubloons with the perk and when you count the 10k in the wallet you can get 70k doubloons with a single T.Lynx. Also remember you can have more in fleet as well.

Edit: and here is a screenshot showing it 😋

Edit 2: BTW I did not use an exploit to obtain these doubloons.

Great idea, I have been pulling into a port with an outpost to drop off doubloons when my chest gets near 10k.  Also, will plan my routes to hit an outpost to drop off dubs.  

But i like the idea of storing them in the hold if one needs extra space on a delivery run. :-). 

[Yehoodi]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:37 AM, rediii said:

Sorry to hurt you but I have doubts many people are sailing lynxes and fir fir princes around on the map to fight this money making mechanic that has NO other alternative.

Or where can you get 50k dubs or something like that with a timeinvestment of a few hours with no risk?

 

Smart people have a free outpost slot and just dock up in the next free for all/neutral/nationport to put it into the captainschest

I have not done this yet, but it has crossed my mind.  

[Archaos]

22 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

Great idea, I have been pulling into a port with an outpost to drop off doubloons when my chest gets near 10k.  Also, will plan my routes to hit an outpost to drop off dubs.  

But i like the idea of storing them in the hold if one needs extra space on a delivery run. :-). 

I agree and that is what I do too, the screenshot was only to show how many could be carried as someone said a T.Lynx could not carry that many. Carrying too many in the hold slows you down, so it is always best to empty your chest whenever possible as it only costs you maximum 2% of your stash if you do it when you are full.

On a long run deep into enemy areas I may end up with around 10k~15k doubloons in my hold, but after this it starts affecting the speed of my 5/5 speed modded T.Lynx and I can no longer hit speed cap.

[Yehoodi]

4 hours ago, Archaos said:

I agree and that is what I do too, the screenshot was only to show how many could be carried as someone said a T.Lynx could not carry that many. Carrying too many in the hold slows you down, so it is always best to empty your chest whenever possible as it only costs you maximum 2% of your stash if you do it when you are full.

On a long run deep into enemy areas I may end up with around 10k~15k doubloons in my hold, but after this it starts affecting the speed of my 5/5 speed modded T.Lynx and I can no longer hit speed cap.

At moment my tlynxs are blue and i have not reach the speed cap. I do have two very fast blue ones but i want to wait to see how things work.  I am just getting use to cruising around and for the first time not really have to worry too much about being attacked or even tagged.  So that is a relief, from the other end of the spectrum of hauling Tbrigs in the bahamas and worrying about the enemy, like Nassau for example.   I do not venture my Indys in troubled waters.  

Right now just testing the deliveries with my tlynx with all replaceable parts, the ship and upgrades, so no sweat even if I get tagged and sunk.   Later i might set up a max speed tlynx.   The delivery are nice as nice payback, but must less worries from being attacked both with being in a fast ship and the losses are not as bad as if one looses a trader filled with trade goods. 

 

[angriff]

Well now that Doubloons are all but worthless I find myself enjoying travelling to my ports stopping and taking passengers along the way.  It is fun and as others have noted you can amass a huge number of these meaningless trinkets.

As far as trading I find I pretty much now do that exact same thing I did before the patch.  There are two major differences. 

I now make less money per trader trip as cargo for the most part is distance to profit margin.  This makes life easier so you dont have to worry about whether there is medium level products to move anymore and you dont have to spend time gathering up the slim pickens to a hub port. 

The second and somewhat major difference is the lack of a means to gather rare woods so I can ignore that aspect of the game entirely.  Recently found a clan mission my clan was invited to buy 5000 white oak for 50,000 doubloons (each sellable for 4 or 5 Reals)  This makes the white oak worth  about 40 or 50 reals or about what it was worth before but I cannot convince my clan that owns zero ports and zero resources to try because of the next wipe threat.

However, the inability to gather rare woods coupled with the rare PVP fights that I would have let alone would manage to have an ending that achieved a combat medal means I dont have to worry about crafting over 50 percent of the ships in the game.  This has made me forget not only the PVP game but additionally becoming a ship crafter is no longer something that would be profitable at lower level ranked ships without upgrades.   

I was willing to risk a ship I had crafted with only time invested in one of the 8 or 10 PVP battles I was in.  I was also willing to sell ships crafted at reasonable prices but since I never won a PVP battle nor expect I will ever then I will risk my expensive ships rarely or when I am sure that I have sufficient support to at least survive.  I have not been so lucky to that before the patch so the game will likely become about catching and selling fish.  I am looking for my old fish map that told me where the big fish are then dusting it off.

Edited March 14, 2019 by angriff

[angriff]

PVP rewards should be just that.  Rewards that entice you to play PVP.  Before the patch Doubloons were needed for PVP rewards and they were made available to players who attacked AI so they because items that would entice you to fight in PVP battles as you had a fighting chance and you could see what worked or did not work fo you.  Now with the introduction of anther currency in Combat Medals that has gone back to the former just PVP Doubloons before you could find them elsewhere.

[Archaos]

26 minutes ago, angriff said:

Well now that Doubloons are all but worthless I find myself enjoying travelling to my ports stopping and taking passengers along the way.  It is fun and as others have noted you can amass a huge number of these meaningless trinkets.

 

26 minutes ago, angriff said:

The second and somewhat major difference is the lack of a means to gather rare woods so I can ignore that aspect of the game entirely.  Recently found a clan mission my clan was invited to buy 5000 white oak for 50,000 doubloons (each sellable for 4 or 5 Reals)  This makes the white oak worth  about 40 or 50 reals or about what it was worth before but I cannot convince my clan that owns zero ports and zero resources to try because of the next wipe threat.

On the one hand you state that you can amass a huge number of doubloons, but then you say you cannot get the rare resources because your clan were not interested. But why do you need your clan to get them if you are amassing so many doubloons, as long as your clan is on the friend list of the owning clan you can get the mission yourself. So far since the patch I have redeemed 10k Live Oak, 10k White oak and by tomorrow I will have redeemed 10k Sabicu logs, and that is with no help from my clan, so it can be done solo.

For me these rare resources cost nothing but time as the doubloons are rewards from delivery missions that cost nothing, so its all pure profit.

[angriff]

7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

 

On the one hand you state that you can amass a huge number of doubloons, but then you say you cannot get the rare resources because your clan were not interested. But why do you need your clan to get them if you are amassing so many doubloons, as long as your clan is on the friend list of the owning clan you can get the mission yourself. So far since the patch I have redeemed 10k Live Oak, 10k White oak and by tomorrow I will have redeemed 10k Sabicu logs, and that is with no help from my clan, so it can be done solo.

For me these rare resources cost nothing but time as the doubloons are rewards from delivery missions that cost nothing, so its all pure profit.

While I can appreciate that and have amassed similar amounts of doubloons with that same intent but then I thought.  It has been a week now and I have no combat medals.  It is all a hoax there are no combat medals.  No combat medals no combat medals it is a shame.  everyone says you need them to craft things so having wood with no combat medals is the same as no collusion.