Patch 30: Trading feedback

[Archaos]

21 hours ago, admin said:

letter delivery will be replaced by cargo delivery very soon
heavy cargo good profit in reals for a manageable short route to provide for 100% losses in PvP if you urgently need cash.

I think replacing the letter delivery with cargo delivery will have a serious impact on the amount of doubloons in the market and it will make the passenger delivery runs less attractive. I usually take a mixture of passengers and letters missions and even though I will admit it is easy to make doubloons doing these runs, it takes time to earn the doubloons with income difficult to push above 4k doubloons per hour sailed. Removing the letters mission would halve that at least and if you try and mix cargo and passengers you slow your ship down making it too easy to get intercepted.

So if you want to introduce cargo delivery, please do not replace letter delivery.

[LeBoiteux]

23 hours ago, admin said:

letter delivery will be replaced by cargo delivery very soon

Make letter delivery available only for 7th rates (maybe also 6th rates) to promote more of them in OW.

Come on !!! Do something for small ones.

And it's historical. 4-pdr Corvettes with 12/18 guns weren't built to fight in line. 

[Zlatkowar]

3 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Make letter delivery available only for 7th rates (maybe also 6th rates) to promote more of them in OW.

Come on !!! Do something for small ones.

And it's historical. 4-pdr Corvettes with 12/18 guns weren't built to fight in line. 

Agree. Love the Turbo T Lynx trips around the map. Removing the possibility to do so wouild be a total bummer.

[Aquillas]

I tried trading all the evening, with two computer to multiply by two the inactivity while sailing doing Nothing.

One account was getting doubloons delivery missions and passengers. Got 6000 in spite of a mission not working (2500 doubs lost, F11 made). In 6 hours, including the time I was in restaurant with my family, computers dealing with themselves

The other one was classically trading… What a pity! I earnt more reals yesterday evening in a basic cutter fighting from an "impossible" nation… 

My conclusion is I will never trade anymore. Too much boring in toooooo long afk sailing,  for not enough reward.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Eleazar de Damas

[Archaos]

33 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

One account was getting doubloons delivery missions and passengers. Got 6000 in spite of a mission not working (2500 doubs lost, F11 made). In 6 hours, including the time I was in restaurant with my family, computers dealing with themselves

All I can say is you must be doing something wrong if you only got 6k doubloons in 6 hours. To make more from delivery missions you really cannot be afk too much, you have to call into many ports along your route picking up new missions along the way. When you have 10 missions start abandoning some so you can take more, you can still hand them in for the reward. The most I have had at one time is 24 missions and I could have more if I had a fleet ship, but fleet ships slow you down. On a trip of 6 hours you should be pulling in between 25k and 30k doubloons easily and still have a hold full of missions to deliver. I usually head home when I have 30k doubloons as the doubloons in my hold tend to start slowing my T. Lynx down so I cannot hit speed cap.

If you want to do a single afk run to somewhere distant then I would suggest grabbing missions from around your home port for a couple of days to get a bunch all going to one distant port and then do a single afk run and you should be able to pull in around 20k doubloons in a single run depending on your luck with missions to the same port.

[Macjimm]

Suppose it depends on your expectations and your goals.

Decent trade ships are 7-50k Reals.  Speed upgrades are another 40k Reals (if you are patient and trade for, or craft, them).  So in the trading world losses are affordable.  Ships are easily replaced.

Basic PvE trading can net about 100-400km profit per hour.  PvP trading can be considerable more.  Passive PvP businesses can be more profitable but take a little while to establish.  PvP returns are not available immediately, and it sometimes takes a week to complete a cycle.  Personally the PvP trade is more satisfying even if it yields less Reals or Doubloons.

The deliveries are a welcome addition.  They create no problems so I'd like to see them unchanged.   It is easy for traders to collect Doubloons now.  I check for contracts and pick missions that have destinations close to where I will be travelling.  I agree it helps to check ports along the route, although often I just sail longer distances in one hop.  It's safer and takes less time.  The deliveries are a welcome bonus, icing on the cakes.  Players who don't like them can ignore them.

I am enthusiastically waiting for ports to use local goods to increase port production.  

Players who want to earn enough quickly,  to buy large rare wood warships, may have to work with other players, clans.  It seems difficult, for solo players, to earn fast enough to buy, or craft, several big warships per day.  Some would argue that it's a good thing that 1st rates are uncommon.

The resources/goods icons are cute little cartoons and assist logistics.  They are pretty.

I'd like to see:

1) A manifest of my warehouses, a ledger that I carry with me sailing.

2) A hot key that opens/closes all fleet holds without clicking on each separate ship.

3) International communication and trade.  Friends across borders, (Other nations).   Optional hailing and "details sharing" between foreign players.

4) Memory for knowledge slots, such that a ship moved to the "main" will remember her combination.

5) Client side naming of ships.  It won't affect others and will ease finding and sorting.

 

 

[Aquillas]

11 hours ago, Archaos said:

All I can say is you must be doing something wrong if you only got 6k doubloons in 6 hours. To make more from delivery missions you really cannot be afk too much, you have to call into many ports along your route picking up new missions along the way. When you have 10 missions start abandoning some so you can take more, you can still hand them in for the reward. The most I have had at one time is 24 missions and I could have more if I had a fleet ship, but fleet ships slow you down. On a trip of 6 hours you should be pulling in between 25k and 30k doubloons easily and still have a hold full of missions to deliver. I usually head home when I have 30k doubloons as the doubloons in my hold tend to start slowing my T. Lynx down so I cannot hit speed cap.

If you want to do a single afk run to somewhere distant then I would suggest grabbing missions from around your home port for a couple of days to get a bunch all going to one distant port and then do a single afk run and you should be able to pull in around 20k doubloons in a single run depending on your luck with missions to the same port.

I agree with you that I could optimize doubloons collection. But these are not the pb. Easy to collect anyway.

But making reals by trade is very boring. Rewards are not worth the bore. The aftk is mandatory for increasong profit by increasing distance. Good for family life, just now, I'm launching a trade run and go for my Week-end shopping

Edited March 23, 2019 by Eleazar de Damas

[DeRuyter]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:21 PM, Archaos said:

All I can say is you must be doing something wrong if you only got 6k doubloons in 6 hours. To make more from delivery missions you really cannot be afk too much, you have to call into many ports along your route picking up new missions along the way. When you have 10 missions start abandoning some so you can take more, you can still hand them in for the reward. The most I have had at one time is 24 missions and I could have more if I had a fleet ship, but fleet ships slow you down. On a trip of 6 hours you should be pulling in between 25k and 30k doubloons easily and still have a hold full of missions to deliver. I usually head home when I have 30k doubloons as the doubloons in my hold tend to start slowing my T. Lynx down so I cannot hit speed cap.

If you want to do a single afk run to somewhere distant then I would suggest grabbing missions from around your home port for a couple of days to get a bunch all going to one distant port and then do a single afk run and you should be able to pull in around 20k doubloons in a single run depending on your luck with missions to the same port.

How do you collect missions along the way? You can't pick up missions in enemy ports. Are you sailing only to friendly ports?

[Archaos]

7 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

How do you collect missions along the way? You can't pick up missions in enemy ports. Are you sailing only to friendly ports?

There are plenty of open to all ports along the way, plan your route accordingly. If you are going to an area where there is mainly enemy closed ports then stock up with deliveries before heading out there.

I guess I currently have an advantage playing Brit as they own so many ports, but I have done runs through Danish, Swedish and French waters and still been able to pick up enough missions to keep me going. You find in the end you eventually have to make a decision to stop taking missions or you could go on forever or until your ship became overloaded with doubloons.

[Teutonic]

14 minutes ago, Archaos said:

There are plenty of open to all ports along the way, plan your route accordingly. If you are going to an area where there is mainly enemy closed ports then stock up with deliveries before heading out there.

I guess I currently have an advantage playing Brit as they own so many ports, but I have done runs through Danish, Swedish and French waters and still been able to pick up enough missions to keep me going. You find in the end you eventually have to make a decision to stop taking missions or you could go on forever or until your ship became overloaded with doubloons.

give me a rough play by play of what you do? example
1. start in port - look at missions and take one to "X far away port"
2. start sailing in that direction and enter each port along the way.
3. accept missions that go to other port along the way

is that basically the gist of it?

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

give me a rough play by play of what you do? example
1. start in port - look at missions and take one to "X far away port"
2. start sailing in that direction and enter each port along the way.
3. accept missions that go to other port along the way

is that basically the gist of it?

Yes thats about right. For example the other day I started at KPR and there were a few missions to places like Old Providence, Serrana and Omoa, so I took them all then stopped into Carlisle and Port Morant to see what they had, if I remember correct there were some for the same area but also some for around the Tumbado area, so already a route is forming in my mind. Head down to OP then across to Gracias A Dios and follow the coast up to Belize and towards Tumbado. I then picked up a few more missions in the Cays before hitting Serrana to deliver the first mission. Most missions only paid around the 1k mark on this run but after 3 hours I was up around Santa Fe area where I took a break and next day finished off in about 1.5 hours finishing the Cuban coast heading down to Cayman Brac, across to Portillo and La Navasse before returning to Jamaican ports and back to KPR with 30k of Doubloons.

You dont have to visit every port and sometimes a lucrative run may cause a change of route, just keep an eye on which ports you are visiting and remember you cannot pick up more missions in enemy closed ports.

It is also handy on your trip round to gather intel on where the clan resources ports are, so far I have found 24 ports with clan resources.

[Teutonic]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

 

It is also handy on your trip round to gather intel on where the clan resources ports are, so far I have found 24 ports with clan resources.

I don't mean to pry too hard - Are they primarily British ports then?

From the ports I know with clan resources - that would bring the # of ports that I know of to be about 40 ports in total.

 

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

I don't mean to pry too hard - Are they primarily British ports then?

From the ports I know with clan resources - that would bring the # of ports that I know of to be about 40 ports in total.

 

No a lot of the ports I have found are not Brit ports, I have yet to find Teak as a clan resource in a Brit port.

[Teutonic]

Just now, Archaos said:

No a lot of the ports I have found are not Brit ports, I have yet to find Teak as a clan resource in a Brit port.

understood then, will lower the estimated resource ports again then.

[Tom Farseer]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, angriff said:

They could drop taxes to 4 percent but they dont.  Why is that unless only their indulgence?

I can only speak for my clan (SNOW), who currently hold 11 ports on War server. On a very good day we make up to 300k in tax money for the clan warehouse. On average we made just over 100k since the wipe and that number is falling now. Last few days trade volume was low, so we made less than we pay for our ports. Reducing tax to 4% simply isn't economically wise for us, as few people trade lately. For the first two weeks after wipe tax income was awesome because everyone tried to get to his personal base amount of money again. Once people are fine moneywise, with the current activity levels there is not much reason to trade, as long as you don't lose too many ships.
So taxes stay where they are mostly.
Also: Why would any Clan drop taxe rates currently? #GreedyGreedyCapitalism

Edited March 25, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[angriff]

 I suppose the current roving rare wood forrest are a bit much and may have to move more often or maybe more forests with smaller volumes so they move more often.   Apparently the entire British side is without any teak other then 'found' teak on AI ships or shipwrecks.  

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

[van Veen]

35 minutes ago, angriff said:

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

^ This is an issue.

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

PvE trading is ok to have as long as it doesn't conflict with player driven economy or conflict is not too radical. Ship resources and crafting are part of trading. Ships if we want that people trade ships.

Crafter of your ship should get reward based on its combat success. You also see who was the captain sailing the ship to earn your crafters reward.

Something like this was tested before. This would work as an additional reason to craft and sell ships. This can include xp but also something that lasts over the maximum rank.

Not much realism in this one, maybe crafter gets famous and rewarded from building successful designs and ships.

Labor Hours should be the limiting factor in crafting. I am not saying that players have to wait days to craft. This will decrease resource prices but increase material/parts prices. I don't like that much the idea that crafting is limited by rare resources or wood types. Wood Types should be in balance. Some resources can be more rare than others but limiting too much will directly limit the amount of war we wage.

Crafting parts should give you crafting xp, this is mandatory, and crafting resources to parts will increase value of your products. We add parts crafting LH requirements and decrease ship LH requirements. This will make parts trade much more interesting? Neither you want high level crafters to craft parts as that would decrease ship production. This increases social interactions, communication. Time is money, LH is time.

Trade window should have an option to pay from crafting. One will pass resources to be crafted and reward, another will craft to get the reward.

 

When players were leveling crafing, years ago. They wanted to buy resources from other players. As time is money, sailing a trader has a very god damn high value. You produce resources but if you don't get enough money from sailing a trader, you only transport for your own needs. The money you spend to get resources could be zero or very close to zero in case LH were more expensive. You create value for your resources by using expensive LH. If you have no other use, you can always get resources.

If LH reals value is about 0. You transport your LH valued resources to crafting port. Your income will be directly based on resources prices in the port, is almost directly the income you get from sailing a trader. Very low cost resource production will decrease risks to move resources and increase value of sailing a trader, not talking from LH price here.

As some people don't want to be crafters they have free LH. They can easily exchange LH to resources and the only task left is to sail a trader, invest time, exchange LH+time to money.

You don't sail a trader to transport your free resources and you don't find anyone to craft parts for, you lose your free income. I could imagine that players want to use this free income in a way or another.

 

Player driven economy should have a bigger role than PvE trading.

[Archaos]

22 hours ago, angriff said:

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

That is why they need to send people out exploring to find out where these clan resources are. I have found two ports with teak clan resources on my travels but they are not British ports. There is not a lot of RvR going on at the moment and that is why people are not really fighting for them, but once the final wipe is done and game released then I am sure the intel on such ports will be vital and nations will take them over to ensure their supply.

[SS Minnow]

Just tried a delivery mission (clanmate screenshot the mission).  Sailed from Truxillo to Turneffe.  Reals were paid but NO DOUBLOONS.  Others have tested and received both rewards but at a friendly port.  Maybe the delivery to enemy closed ports is bugged.

[Teutonic]

4 minutes ago, SS Minnow said:

Just tried a delivery mission (clanmate screenshot the mission).  Sailed from Truxillo to Turneffe.  Reals were paid but NO DOUBLOONS.  Others have tested and received both rewards but at a friendly port.  Maybe the delivery to enemy closed ports is bugged.

did your doubloon chest portion have max or near maximum?

it seems when you get a doubloon reward it goes to your chest - but if your chest is full or full enough to not be able to fit in it, it won't accept the reward.

[SS Minnow]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

did your doubloon chest portion have max or near maximum?

No, only had 239 in the chest.  We will retest the mission to get all screenshots.

[Teutonic]

can you accept the same mission multiple times?

[SS Minnow]

no it disappears for the player that took it, but remains for someone else to try it

[Teutonic]

rewards seem like 5-10% too low.