Patch 30: Combat and boarding feedback

[Vernon Merrill]

As someone who sails 6th and 5th rates retry much exclusively, I can assure you that a full broadside from a COMPETENT captain in a lineship will, in fact, knock any of my vessels out of action.  

1)Spamming a full broadside at extreme angles is NOT the work of a competent captain. 

2) Not every battle can be “to the death”.   If I can limp away to fight another day, you can still consider that a victory.  

[Angus MacDuff]

4 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

2) Not every battle can be “to the death”.   If I can limp away to fight another day, you can still consider that a victory.

My number one rule is "do not sink", as my KD will attest.  I don't mess with SOL's in my Herc.  Why would someone do that??!!

[huliotkd]

43 minutes ago, admin said:

This 44m frigate is somewhat similar to Le Hermione (43m)
And its HP was increased from 6534 to 7000 in the last HP tunes (not by much)

Overall
New model

• Hermione HP 7000 (before tuning 6534)
• 3rd rate alpha in new damage model is 4500
• 1.55 broadsides to destroy side planking to 0 (+ 30- 40% of structure)

old model

• Hermione 4180 HP 
• 3rd rate Alpha 2240 
• 1.86 broadsides to destroy side planking to 0 (+ 5-10% of structure as it was only damaged when side planking was removed in old model)

Serieuse was on par with hermione and just slightly lighter than trincomalee (leda, hebe) and we are not yet ready for complete removal of heavy frigates combat abilities by making them useless against third rates.

HP numbers are still work in progress and might change by release and will continue to be tuned to perfection as we go. 

yesterday i shooted a full Victory long/carro68 broadside on a trinco and it lost 4/5 of the side and 1 notch of structure...he then escaped sailing at max speed easy as undamaged.

@admin a little nerf on hp is needed. we are again at prepatch situation.

a week ago i lost a Vic in boarding vs 2 lgv refit and a bellona because the 2 lgv resist to my full broadside on the masts and hull, so they came back sterncamping while bellona was in boarding also receiving my broadsides closerange.

1st rates must be more lethal, an HP nerf could resolve

 

[Aster]

First rates like the santi will all ready outright kill most fifth rates with a single broadside. I think they are plenty powerful.

[Teutonic]

59 minutes ago, Aster said:

First rates like the santi will all ready outright kill most fifth rates with a single broadside. I think they are plenty powerful.

Yeah.

The dynamic is good right now. Lineship broadside damage still knocks 5th rates out of the water and a 5th rate captain needs to be extremely careful and on point when fighting lineships.

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, huliotkd said:

yesterday i shooted a full Victory long/carro68 broadside on a trinco and it lost 4/5 of the side and 1 notch of structure...he then escaped sailing at max speed easy as undamaged.

@admin a little nerf on hp is needed. we are again at prepatch situation.

a week ago i lost a Vic in boarding vs 2 lgv refit and a bellona because the 2 lgv resist to my full broadside on the masts and hull, so they came back sterncamping while bellona was in boarding also receiving my broadsides closerange.

1st rates must be more lethal, an HP nerf could resolve

 

You won the battle in one broadside....  Whats the complaint here?

[Tom Farseer]

3 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

My number one rule is "do not sink", as my KD will attest.  I don't mess with SOL's in my Herc.  Why would someone do that??!!

Because it can be damn right funny if you pull it off
The skill gap for that must however be exorbitant. As in top of the line PvPer vs either newbie or (probably even more often) veteran that shows great resitance to learning

[huliotkd]

3 hours ago, Aster said:

First rates like the santi will all ready outright kill most fifth rates with a single broadside. I think they are plenty powerful.

yeah but also other 1st-2nd rate must be the same and victory isn't, so i wonder how is a pavel or buc.

 

2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

You won the battle in one broadside....  Whats the complaint here?

i didn't won, he escaped safely. 2 of them will kill me cause they can resist damages, disengage, repair and come back while i'm engaging the 2nd one...they can't do this, they must die at first full broadside

[Vernon Merrill]

11 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

i didn't won, he escaped safely. 2 of them will kill me cause they can resist damages, disengage, repair and come back while i'm engaging the 2nd one...they can't do this, they must die at first full broadside

I'm sorry but if you cant put a second broadside that would finish off that ship before they actually hurt you then I don't know what to tell you....  I don't know of any 5th rate that can do enough damage to beat 1.5 broadsides as Admin pointed out....  

And yes.  You DID win if the other ship is forced to leave.

[huliotkd]

3 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I'm sorry but if you cant put a second broadside that would finish off that ship before they actually hurt you then I don't know what to tell you....  I don't know of any 5th rate that can do enough damage to beat 1.5 broadsides as Admin pointed out....  

And yes.  You DID win if the other ship is forced to leave.

i think you aren't understanding....i was in Victory (9 kn) and i fired on a trinco (12.5kn)...trinco received damages and sailed far away at 12.5kn before i can recharge guns...

so it's impossible to kill it. but it should be destroyed at first broadside as it was IRL to simulate the strike-colours.   or maybe he can still move but at 4-5kn , not at 12.5kn as it was untouched.

is it clear now?

[Steele OooOoOOoOOOooooOOOO]

4 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

As someone who sails 6th and 5th rates retry much exclusively, I can assure you that a full broadside from a COMPETENT captain in a lineship will, in fact, knock any of my vessels out of action.  

1)Spamming a full broadside at extreme angles is NOT the work of a competent captain. 

2) Not every battle can be “to the death”.   If I can limp away to fight another day, you can still consider that a victory.  

Hitting from angles attacks cannon firing position and would damage guns And Crew in Real combat. it is as effective long term for smaller vessels to disrupt larger ones without being in a direct incoming broadside position

[Vernon Merrill]

2 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

i think you aren't understanding....i was in Victory (9 kn) and i fired on a trinco (12.5kn)...trinco received damages and sailed far away at 12.5kn before i can recharge guns...

so it's impossible to kill it. but it should be destroyed at first broadside as it was IRL to simulate the strike-colours.   or maybe he can still move but at 4-5kn , not at 12.5kn as it was untouched.

is it clear now?

Its VERY clear to me...  You want 1 broadside to sink the Trinc...  it takes 1.5....   

You didnt sink him, but you WON the battle...  

Is it clear now?

[Vernon Merrill]

2 minutes ago, MacaroniMax said:

Hitting from angles attacks cannon firing position and would damage guns And Crew in Real combat. it is as effective long term for smaller vessels to disrupt larger ones without being in a direct incoming broadside position

Yes.  Agreed.   I'm talking in regards to getting ALL of the shots from a broadside to actually hit the target...

New damage model bounces VERY few shots of large caliber.

[Teutonic]

Could always target their masts first.

Suddenly they lose a mast and can't run away anymore.

[huliotkd]

3 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Its VERY clear to me...  You want 1 broadside to sink the Trinc...  it takes 1.5....   

You didnt sink him, but you WON the battle...  

Is it clear now?

ok i accept 1.5 broadsides if the first 1 dismantle its speed, turning and fighting ability until he repair...

i see no difference if trinco takes 1 full broadside or not.  and this is wrong

Edited April 16, 2019 by huliotkd

[Guest]

 

8 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

Because it can be damn right funny if you pull it off
The skill gap for that must however be exorbitant. As in top of the line PvPer vs either newbie or (probably even more often) veteran that shows great resitance to learning

but is this good for the game in general? or is it good for the Veteran? Yes the veteran will enjoy it because he knows he has a chance on pulling it of tanking a few full ship of the line broadsides, but the new player will quit the game because for that player its not fun and probably humiliating and unrealistic.

 

Maybe what we should look at is the maneuverability and acceleration / deacceleration on those Ships of the Line, Maybe even up the damage for 24pd cannons and up and increase the lineships hp.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

Del

Edited April 16, 2019 by Guest

[Vernon Merrill]

Hahaha.  

[admin]

21 hours ago, huliotkd said:

 

a week ago i lost a Vic in boarding vs 2 lgv refit and a bellona because the 2 lgv resist to my full broadside on the masts and hull, so they came back sterncamping while bellona was in boarding also receiving my broadsides closerange.

1st rates must be more lethal, an HP nerf could resolve

 

Lighter frigates are more vulnerable than before (even after slight buffs to 4th rates and heavy frigates)
We of course are watching the situation closely and will tune the parameters if needed.

Ships of the line due to their price should be powerful but skilled frigates captain still have the chance to engage (and disengage due to speed advantages) Try changing tactics slightly if you feel the ships escape easily from you. But if they ran - this means you won the battle. 

[Guest]

i cant see the players in battle when i am in boarding (TAB button). the battle window is behind the boarding window. 

@admin

please fix it

Edited April 17, 2019 by Guest

[Slim McSauce]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

But if they ran - this means you won the battle. 

Will rewards reflect this? If someone attacks, and disengages I would consider that a win for the defenders so we agree, but battles like this can last hours and in the end there's nothing to show for it for the successful captain. Otherwise the merit doesn't hold and  it just feels like you had your time wasted while the frigate captain toys with you from afar, holding you in battle as long as he pleases since he has the speed advantage by a great margin. (as it should be)

Edited April 17, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Tom Farseer]

10 hours ago, Wyy said:

 

but is this good for the game in general? or is it good for the Veteran? Yes the veteran will enjoy it because he knows he has a chance on pulling it of tanking a few full ship of the line broadsides, but the new player will quit the game because for that player its not fun and probably humiliating and unrealistic.

 

Maybe what we should look at is the maneuverability and acceleration / deacceleration on those Ships of the Line, Maybe even up the damage for 24pd cannons and up and increase the lineships hp. 

To be honest the few times I have fought lineships in frigates or have seen other people fight 4th rates and up in a Snow or Herc and win, they never had to tank a full broadside.

I really don't like the "git gud" mentality in general, but if you lose a first rate to anything less than at least three "heavy" 5th rates which are helmed by skilled veterans it is honestly your own fault. Never mind tanking a bradside to the hull. All it takes is one or two good sternrakes or mast-sprays while the lighter ship is trying to hold it's angle. Once a mast is down any ship turns into easy meat.

There may be the odd case where a single light frigate or even sloop-o-war defeats a 4th rate but those are rare exceptions already. And the winner's names are widely known ingame for good reason.

[huliotkd]

31 minutes ago, admin said:

Lighter frigates are more vulnerable than before (even after slight buffs to 4th rates and heavy frigates)
We of course are watching the situation closely and will tune the parameters if needed.

Ships of the line due to their price should be powerful but skilled frigates captain still have the chance to engage (and disengage due to speed advantages) Try changing tactics slightly if you feel the ships escape easily from you. But if they ran - this means you won the battle. 

yes, true. they were 3 good players indeed, i got boarded 1st time then they put themselves aside and board me each other till the end. the problem is that if you bring back the old HP pre-HPbuff  i would have killed 1 or 2 with guns saving myself. i also killed some 1st rates usind a Diana, skill is a factor as mistakes of the loser.

but the 1st battle i talked about, my vic broadside vs a trinco, ended with trinco disengaged at full speed, like it is undamaged, repaired, and come back (he wasn't alone, they were 8 players) while it should be slowed down a lot by my inflicted damages, so i can kill it.  

not a single parameter (turning or speed or yard power) of a 5th rate (from bellepoule to up)  will change if it takes a full broadside of a Vic and this was like the pre-WeightdamagePatch  (i'm talking about a Victory cause it is the lower 1st rates of the 3 ones, but it is always a 1st rate...it must be lethal, not only dangerous)

 

it isn't correct, trinco must lose at least a mast for the rake and reload shock, must be damaged in structure for an half cause i was using long...like before HPbuff. 

as parameter of work @admin , you can test a full broadside of a Victory on a medium 5th (trinco) until it destroy all a side and all structure with all 54 hull hits. this should be the standard to which all upper and lower ships are adapted....like pre-HPbuff patch

 

 

heavy frigates are a different argument, they are quite a 4th rate but they should lose all side armor and 1/3 of structure by any 1st rate's-2nd rates full broadside (full i mean all guns hits)

 

new players ragequit question: no new player will ragequit the game if they lose a ship with insta-kill by a 1st rate - new player will start the game with the new damage model so they will get used to new threats faster than we veterans did and do in changing our menthality of the game. new player will stay in game because this games is for 18th century warship lovers...this game is unique in his genre. if a new player quit the game if for lack of PVE content.

[--Privateer--]

8 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

it isn't correct, trinco must lose at least a mast for the rake and reload shock

You can still shoot masts off really easily, but you have to aim for them, I don't think a mast should fall over when you shoot the hull, that doesn't make sense.

[Angus MacDuff]

58 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Will rewards reflect this? If someone attacks, and disengages I would consider that a win for the defenders so we agree, but battles like this can last hours and in the end there's nothing to show for it for the successful captain.

I've considered this myself and I don't think I agree with you that the Captain who wins (and doesn't kill) should receive a tangible reward.  Its a good feeling when you chase someone away, or make a close escape for that matter.  Having actual rewards involved would open up too many areas for abuse, however.