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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

they are not a problem no. I have not tested a pvp battle myself because there is none but there is no need for repairs at all. You will die. I wouldnt mind testing 1st vs 1st pvp but it doesnt matter. It will not work anyway. If even bellonas are shredded by 1 broadside its to much. The ship is out of the game. 

I think this is great for a test.  There's no question that they have given us something very close to realistic with this damage model.  Another example from the Battle of the Nile is the Brit 74, Bellerophon took a serious beating from Orient, showing that a lone 74 cannot stand up to a 1st rate.  Of course, orient was ganged up on and sunk.  Now we have to decide if this is what we want for the game.  Full realism is very lopsided and you are right that no-one will bring a lone Bellona near a 1st rate (never mind a 5th rate).  I'm thinking that two 1st rates trading broadsides will be "mutually assured destruction".  Do we want this?

Edited by Angus MacDuff
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

all ships, I had a duel today against a havoc player. Trinco vs indef. I put wrong guns on. 9 longs instead of 32 carros. He asked to restart but I said lets try anyway. I will show you screenshots of bounces now. 

https://prnt.sc/migzmf

9 hull hits with longs.

I tryed long range fighting against him. 18s and 9s bounced a 250 m good angles. Not perfect but when do you get the 100% angle. Even charged shot would not penetrate. 

Dont get me wrong. Indef>trinco all day long but I have 0 tactical options because I have limited doubles, limited charge and he has more and more reps. I hello kittyed up and did not have 18s 32s for the close range battle I was planing. Still there should be options for 9s right? His damage is me pounding and pounding his ship with one side but I did mess up and miss one broadside of doubles. 

Then it's very clear thickness needs reduction across the board if it is to work how intended. Problem with balancing ship stats is  that there's so many wide variables. Right off the bat you have wood types which can turn a 5th rate into a 4th rate, or a 3rd rate into a 5th rate. Then you have mods which exagerate that and it ends up being a wild beast that's hard to tame and get control of.

Edited by Slim McSauce
Posted
Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

I think this is great for a test.  There's no question that they have given us something very close to realistic with this damage model.  Another example from the Battle of the Nile is the Brit 74, Bellerophon took a serious beating from Orient, sowing that a lone 74 cannot stand up to a 1st rate.  Of course, orient was ganged up on and sunk.  Now we have to decide if this is what we want for the game.  Full realism is very lopsided and you are right that no-one will bring a lone Bellona near a 1st rate (never mind a 5th rate).  I'm thinking that two 1st rates trading broadsides will be "mutually assured destruction".  Do we want this?

well it is kind of more extreme than real. Ships were defeated after 1 broadside, Rarely if ever completely dismasted and sank :) 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I think this is great for a test.  There's no question that they have given us something very close to realistic with this damage model.  Another example from the Battle of the Nile is the Brit 74, Bellerophon took a serious beating from Orient, sowing that a lone 74 cannot stand up to a 1st rate.  Of course, orient was ganged up on and sunk.  Now we have to decide if this is what we want for the game.  Full realism is very lopsided and you are right that no-one will bring a lone Bellona near a 1st rate (never mind a 5th rate).  I'm thinking that two 1st rates trading broadsides will be "mutually assured destruction".  Do we want this?

I am a better captain than the Bellerophon and I do not want 1st rates 1 shotting bellonas 😉

Posted
3 minutes ago, Pada said:

Is this an early april fools joke?

I hoping there was a mistake and damage is 2x or so. I can only speak for bigger ships vs smaller ships. For equal sized ships there is no way to test against AI. They dont have meta builds. 

Posted (edited)

Admin we need a temporary return of the pvp rooms to test this change properly. Sailing across the map to meet with others in redeemed ships is not an option. Make it easier for the testers.

Edited by Slim McSauce
  • Like 4
Posted
1 minute ago, Capn Rocko said:

Has anyone tried stern raking a 1st rate to see how fast the mizzen falls? 

We did 1st rate stern rake on 1st rate...  no mast came down.  Then two stern rakes on the same 1st rate by a frigate...  still no mast damage

 

Posted
49 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

But they are AI, right?  7 players would have your stern gone and you chained to a stop

first rate on first rate 5 rakes no mast down almost no structure dmg.

frig vs first rate- frig demasted after 1st rake and anchoring game by first rate then sunk in 1 broadside the frig

both player vs player

Posted
5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I hoping there was a mistake and damage is 2x or so. I can only speak for bigger ships vs smaller ships. For equal sized ships there is no way to test against AI. They dont have meta builds. 

Isent there a player on testbed you can test it with, ore is that impossible?

Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Yes they were. Check the sources. 1 full broadside from a 1st rate in most cases would leave a frigate disabled and adrift. Exactly how it's represented now.

 

44 minutes ago, Wyy said:

broadsided an essex with the vic, took down full side and half structure, thats more or less what you're mentioning here

Ok guys. Any more sources than the serieuse from Aboukir, which didn't sink immediately? Simple logic should tell anybody, that a ship doesn't sink all time it gets hit by 50 - 60 cannonballs. It was wrecked and drifted onto a shoal. We don't know what exactly happend, what got hit, rigging status etc. This is one example. It will be the norm in NA now. I just spawned next to a Surprise and simply send it to the bottom in less then 5 seconds. Do we want that? I am all for bigger damage from bigger ships and frigates that are far inferior to SOLs but not sinking in one broadside (and sinking really fast here).

43 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

They don't mean sinking vernon. They mean surrender or not being able to keep sailing. A 5th rate would be shredded by 60 cannons hitting her at close range. No frigate in their right mind would pass a loaded 1st rate anyway. 

Again, in NA they just sink. And where does this idea come from, that those ships get shredded by 60 cannons. look at the size of those balls. We are talking here about the extreme case that some here take as the norm. 

New system is a good move in the right direction, but it definitely needs some tuning.

And I still think that HP bars in general are the devil :D

Edited by Cecil Selous
Posted
2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

first rate on first rate 5 rakes no mast down almost no structure dmg.

 

5 full broadside rakes - no structure damage at all? 5 rakes should get structure down to half (AT LEAST)

Posted
1 minute ago, staun said:

Isent there a player on testbed you can test it with, ore is that impossible?

I am not sailing to an enemy port for 1 hour to test soemthing.

Posted
1 minute ago, Cecil Selous said:

 

Ok guys. Any more sources than the serieuse from Aboukir, which didn't sink immediately? Simple logic should tell anybody, that ship doesn't sink all time it gets hit by 50 - 60 cannonballs. It was wrecked and drifted onto a shoal. We don't know what exactly happend, what got hit, rigging status etc. This is one example. It will be the norm in NA now. I just spawned next to a Surprise and simply send it to the bottom in less then 5 seconds. Do we want that? I am all for bigger damage from bigger ships and frigates that are far inferior to SOLs but not sinking in one broadside (and sinking really fast here).

Again, in NA they just sink. And where does this idea come from, that those ships get shredded by 60 cannons. look at the size of those balls. We are talking here about the extreme case that some here take as the norm. 

New system is a good move in the right direction, but it definitely needs some tuning.

And I still think that HP bars in general are the devil :D

sure. Armour is not a major problem. Its right direction but far to right. 

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, admin said:

5 full broadside rakes - no structure damage at all? 5 rakes should get structure down to half (AT LEAST)

I just did a rake on a Wasa with the Victory from around 250 meters. took 3/4 of its structure away. 

EDIT: but another player in a Vic was next to her and shot a broadside into her side too. So I can't verify the exact amount, that I did. Before both broadsides, the Hull HP of the Wasa was around 3/4 on both sides.

Edited by Cecil Selous
Posted
2 minutes ago, admin said:

5 full broadside rakes - no structure damage at all? 5 rakes should get structure down to half (AT LEAST)

i recorded it will upload asap

Posted
1 minute ago, Cecil Selous said:

I just did a rake on a Wasa with the Victory from around 250 meters. took 3/4 of its structure away. 

Probably depends on who is doing the shooting...

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, z4ys said:

first rate on first rate 5 rakes no mast down almost no structure dmg.

frig vs first rate- frig demasted after 1st rake and anchoring game by first rate then sunk in 1 broadside the frig

both player vs player

What about crew? modules? any fires? That's what I'd be looking at more than structure. Fires should be deadly.

Edited by Slim McSauce
Posted
12 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

Do we want that? I am all for bigger damage from bigger ships and frigates that are far inferior to SOLs but not sinking in one broadside (and sinking really fast here).

24 hours is 75 days in NA.
20 mins is almost a day. Half day to sink a frigate from the SOL does not sound as dramatic. 

I know a lot of you are in shock but for the game new system is going to be good (after tuning)
it will be music for the masses 
oBpmT7T.jpg

 

ps. because it fits the pattern imprinted into the brain of age of sail fans by history. 

  • Like 5
Posted
Just now, admin said:

24 hours is 75 days in NA.
20 mins is almost a day. Half day to sink a frigate from the SOL does not sound as dramatic. 

I know a lot of you are in shock but for the game new system is going to be good (after tuning)
it will be music for the masses
oBpmT7T.jpg

but please not one broadside 1st rate to aggy and you are basically dead. 

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