Game inbalances or cheating?

[Captain Mulec]

I dont write here often, well to be honest i rarely play this game lately but when i come online i am excited to do some PVP against other players. Well i was before, but lately i just lost some ships in suspicious circumstances. I have almost 1800hrs of gameplay on my clock, multiple portbattles, i always had good scores in battles, multiplayer or 1vs1 so i have experience. I dont know what happened to this game but to sail LO/WO Locean with all kinds of armor mods and be obliterated by Teak/WO Vic, while doing damage like all your canons were just 6pounders, its just so so unbelievable. Even more today when me in Teak/WO Wasa, and two more players in Connie and Indy were chasing Bellona. First it was incerdibly fast almost imposible to catch it, then it could not get dismasted while Bellona could do this with single broadside. When getting close enough for broadside exchange we found out it is just very very tanky, ok so lets try boarding, nope, not working, while doing so i took a lot damage and we had to retreat. In hour and a half i alone collected 800+ sail shots and 160+ mast hits with no dismasting, and that Bellona took more hits from other ships as well.

Not a single Bellona mast fell while Indy was dismasted in a broadside, i also lost front mast, repaired it and later lost 2 more, just like that from 95% to 20% sails in a second. What kind of sorcery is that. If that is not some kind of cheating then there must be something really wrong with this game. That ship was just too fast, too tanky, with indestructable masts, very powerful guns, and fast repairs, all at the same time so 3 ships could not handle it.

I really enyojed this game in 2016/2017 and ocasional plays in 2018, but lately those WTF moments come into my head just too often.

Can someone tell me how is such inballance possible?

[Guest]

Cannons can have laser accuracy, coupled with mast mods to prevent being demasted himself. If it's a 5/5 bellona then it has room for a couple of speed mods as well..

 

Welcome to the game that is anything but skill based, but decided by mods and gold ships.

[Cabral]

 In 2016/2017 you didn't had the "books" the game have now. It makes a huge difference.

[Captain Mulec]

I dont have any pic but those numbers... I reality those mast should be toothpicks by then. Btw i had 32pd longs, if that does not penetrate...

There were no books but there were perks...

[William Death]

Regarding your first fight (first rates):

Your modded LO/WO Ocean is tough, but you said "armor mods" this tells me nothing. If you were running diagonal riders or reinforced stern thats absolutely useless for the kind of brawl you describe... A properly upgraded Teak/WO Victory can dismantle a L'Ocean. Victory has the speed, turn rate, turn acceleration, and hull shape to get off a broadside into you and then quickly angle & bounce whatever you shoot at it.

If you felt like your cannons weren't doing damage, then you weren't getting penetrating hits. The other skipper likely had enough angle to bounce your shots (bouncing shots is a function of thickness, if you angle your hull, thickness increases [basic trigonometric relationships]).

 

Regarding your second fight:

Mast mods can deny you the ability to demast them. If you don't have the cannon penetration to overcome the thickness of their masts, you won't demast them.

Also a sail repair will instantly repair mast HP so if he was popping sail reps often he had nothing to worry about (we now have unlimited repairs).

If you didn't have mast mods on your ship, its quite easy to snap masts in 1-3 broadsides if you're good. (what he did to you).

Speed mod stacking is common. Throw in some sail force mods like elite spanish or elite pirate rig and you can get some insanely fast ships, including 14.5kn+ Bellona, Ingermanland, Indefatigable, etc.

 

Regarding game balance of all this:

Yeah, Naval Action was more balanced and more fun in 2016/early 2017. Combat was less mod/gear based and more skill based. Now we have unlimited repairs, 4-5+ mods of each type (many stackable), rare books and upgrades.... I don't like it either, but this is the game we now have. Hopefully devs fix it but...we'll just have to wait and see.

At any rate, I STRONGLY DOUBT this player you were fighting was hacking (nearly impossible to do in Naval Action, I'm told). More than likely, he is just an experienced player with a good ship and the right mods to either wreck his opponents or run away from what he can't fight.

[Cabral]

17 minutes ago, Captain Mulec said:

I dont have any pic but those numbers... I reality those mast should be toothpicks by then. Btw i had 32pd longs, if that does not penetrate...

There were no books but there were perks...

 In RL and before the introduction of these "books" in the game, bellona never did 14 knts... but now we have these phenomenons. What can we do? We must adapt to what they deliver us

Edited January 12, 2019 by Cabral

[Captain Mulec]

Regarding first battle. Well i know all about ship angling so it was not that.  Locean had some cartagena refit and aditional planking,... you know where i am going, no useless mods.

Speed mods stacking yes, but usually ship that is fast is not so tanky. You just can not have it all, there will always be some drawbacks.

And if someone missed it, i just said i made 160+ mast hits alone so i know how to aim as well.

But yes the point is game is not enjoyable anymore. Also when you lost ship you used to be able to buy a new one, now shops are empty. I dont like new UI, its confusing

 

[Audacious]

list names, they can run investigation. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Captain Mulec said:

Regarding first battle. Well i know all about ship angling so it was not that.  Locean had some cartagena refit and aditional planking,... you know where i am going, no useless mods.

Speed mods stacking yes, but usually ship that is fast is not so tanky. You just can not have it all, there will always be some drawbacks.

And if someone missed it, i just said i made 160+ mast hits alone so i know how to aim as well.

But yes the point is game is not enjoyable anymore. Also when you lost ship you used to be able to buy a new one, now shops are empty. I dont like new UI, its confusing

 

The counter of mast hits basically means nothing since it only counts how many you hit, not how many that penetrated. If the opponent sports something like elite french rig refit it's basically impossible to pen his masts. Add books for cannon acc and he can demast you - in effect creating a fight where no matter how good you are you will allways lose due to inferior equipment.

As I said - it's been a long, long time since this game was skill based.

[Captain Mulec]

I miss those times...

 

[Durin]

Mast hits are not mast penetrations. Also you cant tell wich guns produced those hits. I think everything there can be explained by certain upgrade combos.

for example i have this ingermanland, it can do 13.9 in battle, has thick sides, thick masts, high turnrate, high dps and its good at boarding too. its all a question of ship quality and make best use of your equipment

btw, that ship can be sunk easy if you know how to counter it

Edited January 12, 2019 by Durin

[Tom Farseer]

10 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Welcome to the game that is anything but skill based, but decided by mods and gold ships.

At some point I will have to drag @Carlos_Condell into recording some of his gameplay... Mostly sails on AI captured ships. Trashes people left right and center in them...
Sorry Carlos for drawing attention to you but this bs is spewed way too much lately.

Yes, there are imbalances, some of them quite bad. Yes, gear can make a big difference. But the game also still has a ridiculously big skill gap.

I myself have well over a thousand hours in the game, and from the fact that people have preferred me in Port Battle lineups over others, I'd say I am above average in skill. Still, I am nowhere near as deadly in PvP as Carlos or @Gregory Rainsborough or some of the other big names in GB and other nations. I've sunk requins in a Fir/Fir Indiaman, I've also been positively smoked sailing gold and purple meta ships, by better players than I am.

[Thonys]

8 hours ago, Captain Mulec said:

I miss those times...

 

try to adapt,  it where other times.

if you don't want your masts removed from your ship use Kiritimati mast upgrade...

you call it imbalance but on the points, you revere to it is just, unfamiliarity with the possibilities you have to arm or defend yourself,

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

The most ridiculous thing are mast hits registering but not penetrating. Leads to confusion, frustration and is not skill-based really. I'm not a sorcerer to know if I pen or not, unlike hull hits and all other hits in NA. I don't know if my opponent has 160cm mast thickness or 90 but a lot of HP for masts or if I need one more single hit to take down the mast, but I assume that it is hello kittying impossible to demast and give up betore final shot. @admin, the mast reverted pen hit markers was a major step back.

I actually liked it when they changed it back to where a mast hit actually meant a pen.  Than a bunch of folks complained (prob like the same half dozen that do every time) and it got changed back.  I'm sorry if they where that good to mast snipe you befere, listing hits that actually pen wasn't going to change that, they are still going to demast you.  I never went off the hit mark any way, you can normally tell a pen by the way it hit the mast and send splinter, the cloud gets a bit bigger right before you snap them too.  Things like this is what we look at not the hit count, but it would help the casuals and new players.  Us vets all ready know how to do it without the counter so that shouldn't matter.  

[Liq]

13 hours ago, Captain Mulec said:

Not a single Bellona mast fell

1 word

Mods

[Slim McSauce]

Mods have this game all fruity, go ahead and throw out all pre-conception of ship battles and stock up on 5/5 ships if you wan't to compete in  the PvP league, that or gank people, that seems to be big now.

[MassimoSud]

Well ... many people will say that what I'm about to say are all bulls@#t, but who cares!
Others will be silent because they are afraid of being teased (but privately they told me they had at least one doubt).
In some battles I have had the impression (certainty often) that the enemy ships had characteristics outside the standards.
I'm not referring to the almost impossible impossibility to demast ships, I know very well that almost all mount refits for the masts, so the demasting is no longer my "strategy".
I refer to the incredible speed of the ship, its incredible turne rate, its incredible ability to repair a lot and in a short time, at its incredible reloading speed, and all these features present on the same ship at the same time.
In some cases I faced ships that with 50/60% of sails ran at the same speed and turned much better than me (of course I used the same ship or even a ship that on paper had similar or even better features).
I came to think that someone, to tell the truth always the same players, have discovered how to have all the perks and refits on the same ship at the same time.
Then, when, in spite of the incredible characteristics of these "special" ships, I/we managed to sink them and/or capture them, we checked how these ships were built, the marvel of all that they had no particular refit and that they were all teak / WO (exactly as I build my ships).
How did I solve the problem?
Simply avoiding the players who, being always the same, I'm sure they have discovered some kind of exploit or that even they can hold special credentials for "special" players.
I'm sorry to say this, and I regret not being able to provide video (my computer is old and not powerful enough to record and play at the same time), but I have the doubt / certainty and I find it right to share it.
Good game (especially when it's honest!)

[Thonys]

13 minutes ago, MassimoSud said:

Well ... many people will say that what I'm about to say are all bulls@#t, but who cares!
Others will be silent because they are afraid of being teased (but privately they told me they had at least one doubt).
In some battles I have had the impression (certainty often) that the enemy ships had characteristics outside the standards.
I'm not referring to the almost impossible impossibility to demast ships, I know very well that almost all mount refits for the masts, so the demasting is no longer my "strategy".
I refer to the incredible speed of the ship, its incredible turne rate, its incredible ability to repair a lot and in a short time, at its incredible reloading speed, and all these features present on the same ship at the same time.
In some cases I faced ships that with 50/60% of sails ran at the same speed and turned much better than me (of course I used the same ship or even a ship that on paper had similar or even better features).
I came to think that someone, to tell the truth always the same players, have discovered how to have all the perks and refits on the same ship at the same time.
Then, when, in spite of the incredible characteristics of these "special" ships, I/we managed to sink them and/or capture them, we checked how these ships were built, the marvel of all that they had no particular refit and that they were all teak / WO (exactly as I build my ships).
How did I solve the problem?
Simply avoiding the players who, being always the same, I'm sure they have discovered some kind of exploit or that even they can hold special credentials for "special" players.
I'm sorry to say this, and I regret not being able to provide video (my computer is old and not powerful enough to record and play at the same time), but I have the doubt / certainty and I find it right to share it.
Good game (especially when it's honest!)

what you actually say is that there are players who are suspicious...

well to tell you the truth there are players who have phenomenal speeds whit the sails at 50 %

who make in every battle 45 leaks  in 2 broadside after each other and

yes there are unpenetrable ships.

but who cares. (we ALL know what's going on right)

just find the players who are honest...

Edited January 12, 2019 by Thonys

[do not say dlc]

I agree with you, we encountered a super ship, like the one you mention, just yesterday. A Bellona ( real tank, great turnrate, great speed, amazing repair ability, super cannons with fast reload and great penetration) a real 'space ship'.

Are these the same guys that used to exploit golden upgrades until they got found out?

Who knows...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just the encyclopedias of ship handling and gunnery are enough to catapult any ship to levels above - turns tighter and faster, cannon angle permits shooting okay while already angled ( fast and tight due to the former ).

 

[Slim McSauce]

We should start a petition to get NA to go back to base, pure ship combat with mods taking the back seat. I remember when mod stacking was a huge problem that everyone detested, and devs set out to fix out but they've somehow made it worse than it was before. 5 slot ships are so beyond the scope of how a ship should be upgraded. I could see this in a game like Destiny or WoW, even E.V.E. But for Naval Action these amounts of stat boosting for ships is unnecessary. It's really gotten out of control.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, do not say dlc said:

I agree with you, we encountered a super ship, like the one you mention, just yesterday. A Bellona ( real tank, great turnrate, great speed, amazing repair ability, super cannons with fast reload and great penetration) a real 'space ship'.

Are these the same guys that used to exploit golden upgrades until they got found out?

Who knows...

you mean a T|WO very fast 5/5 bellona with poods and carronades?. i got one of those, it goes next to 14kn depending on repairs at the best point of sails. Have 75 thickness and reloads a full broadside in 40 seconds. Dont hate the player hate the game is a therm, the game has insane mods which makes these things possible.

[do not say dlc]

6 minutes ago, Wyy said:

you mean a T|WO very fast 5/5 bellona with poods and carronades?. i got one of those, it goes next to 14kn depending on repairs at the best point of sails. Have 75 thickness and reloads a full broadside in 40 seconds. Dont hate the player hate the game is a therm, the game has insane mods which makes these things possible.

Cheater! and btw, what is the purpouse of such a special ship?

And SruPl is teling us that oak/crewspace is enough to pvp...lol

Edited January 12, 2019 by do not say dlc

[MassimoSud]

41 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Just the encyclopedias of ship handling and gunnery are enough to catapult any ship to levels above - turns tighter and faster, cannon angle permits shooting okay while already angled ( fast and tight due to the former ).

 

Excuse me, I have all the three upgrades and it's not true what you say.

These ships seem to be done by a different material (steel) and they are too fast, turns too good, reload too fast and repair too much and too fast, even with the three shipknowledge you're talking about!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Okay. 5/5 - those 2 encyclopedias plus 5 modules plus 3 books on top of interesting wood choices.

I wonder the monster i could do with that and i'm average, let alone if i know how to sail a big ship like that.