Is this game insane???

[Bartholomew.E.Dogg]

It is unfortunate that real life sometimes interferes with our gameplay.  On the few occasions that I have been caught in an extended battle and I really have to leave I message the enemy & explain and then offer to surrender my ship. Rather than hitting surrender button  I stop and offer to allow boarding, this way the enemy is not denied the kill. Yes I lose my ship and/or cargo but I feel that this is the best compromise and in the spirit of the game.

[Slim McSauce]

7 minutes ago, Bartholomew.E.Dogg said:

It is unfortunate that real life sometimes interferes with our gameplay.  On the few occasions that I have been caught in an extended battle and I really have to leave I message the enemy & explain and then offer to surrender my ship. Rather than hitting surrender button  I stop and offer to allow boarding, this way the enemy is not denied the kill. Yes I lose my ship and/or cargo but I feel that this is the best compromise and in the spirit of the game.

It's not often that a chase lasts more than an hour regularly if you get re-tagged leaving a battle you either sink then or are able to move so far away that you're safe from attack This is either a freeport, open port or a port belonging to your nation, where you were on the map would determine where this is possible in some cases you aren't in an area than can have a chase last for more than an hour. but behind that is something that's much more common and that's being revenge ganked by 20 people right after a battle in retribution to you getting a successfull kill in what preferably was ether a reasonable scenario or reasonable odds. So for traders, a single frigate can go after another players full fleet of indiamans and by a reasonable odds get a kill.

A reasonable scenario would be a 4th rate taking on three players with their fleets of indiamans sailing together. The odds are not the same, because the number of guns compared to before but with how ships are the heavier you are the more you benefit from bonuses for survival because your survival is pretty high to begin with. A constitution being able to reach the thickness and tank of a much larger SOL is way better than anything a 5th rate can dream to achieve, it's just too small.

 

 

 

[SnovaZdorowa]

Ну, после удачного боя или отрыва - почему бы и не сделать?
safe logoff from instance:
откат на следующий вход в игру 12 часов к примеру.
на входе сообщение в комабат или глобал Player *** login after safe logoff, XXml SSW from YYYtown
и блокировка на поднятие парусов минут там сколько-нибудь.
 

[staun]

52 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

It goes way beyond that and I'm going to assume you're just being narrow minded to prove a point.

If one part of your game is tyrannical, it's likely many other parts of the game are too, and when you don't know that you don't see to connection between ganks and people's willingness to put the necessary hours in for pvp.

Think I am less narrowminded then ppl who only focus on give all to the hunters. I have many times stated I belive in a fair and balanced game.

But to be honnest doubt that the fear of gank lets ppl stay home. Those ppl I often see request to make it easier to escape after they killed a guy In combat, is those in top of the PvP leaderboard. Fact they go hunt even for the fear of a revenge fleet:

But am I to understand you want to remove tyrannical mechanic in the game?

Would that not ruin both PvP and RvR if both sides have to agree on it, before it could happend.

What would happens to the game if ppl have no way of stopping the hunters to farm. Because if you remove defence fleets, thats is what going to happens.

Ppl don’t stop PvP because of gank fleets, ore atleast than not my expirience. They don’t do PvP because they don’t want to lose a ship. Either because they know they don’t have the skill ore they have a hard time to replace the lost ship. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by staun

[staun]

@Slim McSauce what could be good was to get some facts. Maybe we could get @admin to pull some numbers so we have facts to make argumentions on. Lets get the kill death ratio for lets say the top 100 PvP players. But counts cleanced for patrolezone. What would you say a fair number was. I think the higer it is the less a problem defence fleets are. What is a succes for you. Think admin somewhere said for them a succesful raid should give enough to revolver from 2-3 loses. But where do you think the cut should be?

[z4ys]

Just now, staun said:

@Slim McSauce what could be good was to get some facts. Maybe we could get @admin to pull some numbers so we have facts to make argumentions on. Lets get the kill death ratio for lets say the top 100 PvP players. But counts cleanced for patrolezone. What would you say a fair number was. I think the higer it is the less a problem defence fleets are. What is a succes for you. Think admin somewhere said for them a succesful raid should give enough to revolver from 2-3 loses. But where do you think the cut should be?

 

[staun]

Are those numbers cleansed from patrole zone and Pb’s?

Edited December 25, 2018 by staun

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, staun said:

Are those numbers cleansed from patrole zone?

at this point PZ wasnt as popular like now

[staun]

Just now, z4ys said:

at this point PZ wasnt as popular like now

I added pb after you qouted. If we talk abouth the problem of defence fleet I think that also should be removed.

But those numbers ofc only shows the survival rate. But the discussion is also should ppl could be forced to fight and maybe even have to surrender because of real life issues.

[Slim McSauce]

35 minutes ago, staun said:

Think I am less narrowminded then ppl who only focus on give all to the hunters. I have many times stated I belive in a fair and balanced game.

But to be honnest doubt that the fear of gank lets ppl stay home. Those ppl I often see request to make it easier to escape after they killed a guy In combat, is those in top of the PvP leaderboard. Fact they go hunt even for the fear of a revenge fleet:

But am I to understand you want to remove tyrannical mechanic in the game?

Would that not ruin both PvP and RvR if both sides have to agree on it, before it could happend.

What would happens to the game if ppl have no way of stopping the hunters to farm. Because if you remove defence fleets, thats is what going to happens.

Ppl don’t stop PvP because of gank fleets, ore atleast than not my expirience. They don’t do PvP because they don’t want to lose a ship. Either because they know they don’t have the skill ore they have a hard time to replace the lost ship. 

Ok since you seem to want a sincere discussion and are open to having your ideas challenged and mind changed, I will provide you with what I believe to understand. 

It's not just fear of ganks and gankers, it's the sour anger when you're ganked and the hatred for the ganker. No one in their right mind can say they never felt spite to the person who by mere chance has stumbled upon an opportunity to easily take your stuff and cause you suffering. You think hate is in any way good for the spirit of a game? No of course not it's GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP that makes every battle a good one. When you gank someone you're not only taking stuff from them, you're depriving them of their hope.

If you kill the spirit you kill the game. Any game across life this is true with and if you are not trying to remedy the situation you're letting it grow and gosh I can't even begin to tell you how badly that could bring something down.
 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[z4ys]

In my opinion people should plan ahead and always expect the worst. When I just have 30 mins I dont do something that could keep me ingame for more than 30 mins. But when I do I do it and know that i will use surrender or logout before in OW while using the 120 timer.

To me it looks like as the thread creator had no clue about the game mechanics. Sure game could give a warning when pressing "leave game" while not in port. But how it will prevent those people that use alt f4.

Should we gave safe logout out of battles? - No we had it and it was abused to shit.

There should be no "free to leave a gank card" you got yourself into the situation so deal with it - outsmart your enemies. There is no need that the game holds players hands here. a la others are so mean so take my hand i pull you out of your own created misery.

 

[staun]

5 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Ok since you seem to want a sincere discussion and are open to having your ideas challenged and mind changed, I will provide you with what I believe to understand. 

It's not just fear of ganks and gankers, it's the sour anger when you're ganked and the hatred for the ganker. No one in their right mind can say they never felt spite to the person who by mere chance has stumbled upon an opportunity to easily take your stuff and cause you suffering. You think hate is in any way good for the spirit of a game? No of course not it's GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP that makes every battle a good one. When you gank someone you're not only taking stuff from them, you're depriving them of their hope.

If you kill the spirit you kill the game. Any game across life this is true with and if you are not trying to remedy the situation you're letting it grow and gosh I can't even begin to tell you how badly that could bring something down.
 

First part is that not also when a player attack a player on a trader, when a better skilled player kills a less skilled player. If you want good sportsmanship in the game, I think you need to build in a handicap system. The loses to a guy that for the 5 time this week have lost a ship, to a hunter, is proberbly more in a bad mood, then the hunter that have killed 7 guyes and for once dies to a defence fleet.

What I think kill the spirits of most players is actually RvR. How many times have we not seen when a Nations lose ports, they simply stop playing.

I have a hard time to see a system, no matter how it is build, where somebody don’t get in a bad mood, unless we put in both sides have to agree on it.  And correct me, But I seams to remember you advocate for ppl should feel pain if they lost a ship, ore have I gotten that wrong.

[Slim McSauce]

23 minutes ago, z4ys said:

In my opinion people should plan ahead and always expect the worst. When I just have 30 mins I dont do something that could keep me ingame for more than 30 mins. But when I do I do it and know that i will use surrender or logout before in OW while using the 120 timer.

So legit what're you saying is when you don't have time to play the game, you don't play. Fair enough, not everything takes that long. You could probably get a good PvE battle in 30 minutes or do a 2 way trade run in that 30 minutes, 

What I'm saying is that if I can get chased for 3 hours looking for pvp in any are where there's more than a few people that can get called over to help, then you didn't really give me a chance to play at all. How am I suppose to know when something is going to get dragged on from 1 hour to 3 hours or even more? Shit I got on after work at 11:00pm, got a battle, won, was feeling good because we won to then immediately as you exit be tagged again by a force 4x your size. Absolutely no contest. You're crazy if you think you'd be able to win that. You RUN doing everything you can do to get away.

So if we are going to put a cap on this distructively chaotic element of the game how are we going to do it? You can't say hey come play our game and not give an idea of how long playing the game takes. Which by that I mean say a battle ends at the 1 hour and 45 minute mark, but not tell people that another battle can be started right after than, and after that, aand after that that you have to do or you will lose everything you work for.

I mean......the hello kitty is that?

23 minutes ago, z4ys said:

To me it looks like as the thread creator had no clue about the game mechanics. Sure game could give a warning when pressing "leave game" while not in port. But how it will prevent those people that use alt f4.
Should we gave safe logout out of battles? - No we had it and it was abused to shit.

Who says he did? He addressed a problem that so happens addresses another problem. Solutions are what matters and you cannot attack someone who has brought up the problem of not being warned the consequence of quiting from the battle, after the battle is technically over according to the game. It never says if you leave from battle you will be kicked out back onto OW where you will then sit until you're logged off by timer.  But let me guess, you want everyone to make the same mistake right? Just kidding with you, but that's what it sounds like.

23 minutes ago, z4ys said:

There should be no "free to leave a gank card" you got yourself into the situation so deal with it - outsmart your enemies. There is no need that the game holds players hands here. a la others are so mean so take my hand i pull you out of your own created misery.

Now this is tyrannical thinking, no offense. "You ventured out of your comfort zone and confronted another player in an unsafe area of the map, managing to slip by undetected and contested by the players in that area. You managed a clean strike on someone who no one was able to join in time, it's you and him and you both duke it out and in a close battle you come out as victor. You collect collect your prize and exit the battle. 

As you pop into OW you see nothing but enemy ships around you, you are surrounded by 25 angry players who sailed from dozens of ports away to sit outside of your battle and wait for you to leave with the rewards you just earned for a successful action. You are promptly executed and laughed at for being such an idiot to come this far for pvp.
Is it right to punish people for that? Not only do I think that's wrong, but it's foolishly wrong to the point of worry for NA as a game that will ever capture the hearts of people who love the sailing aspect.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

If the game wouldnt have hard times it would be boring as hello kitty.

No RvR at all kills most of the playerbase because its the motivation to make people stay on your side and its the motivation to keep playing after you have everything.

Players that dont enjoy rvr should stay in safe ports and freeports to craft etc and players that dont enjoy pvp should go to tue pve server

I agree with the first point. Not much fun in  having no challange.

Not sure about your post on RvR. This is ofc only a guess as I have no numbers to back it up. Lets say an avarage of 30 guys in each nation does RvR. 330 guys. How many do log in during a week, I would guess around 1500. So a around 20 % do actually rally up for RvR. So do the more numbers drops from non RvR players? But your statement can be as correct as mine. But there is no doubt we have less player on account on no RvR.

where should ppl play . Don’t want PvP ore RvR. You are right. Peace server is a nice place to be.  In regard to RvR in overall I think that is a longer discussion. Do we want hardcore RvR ore a mix, so the server also can funktion for the casual players. A RvR inviroment where a nation always have enough ports to fall back to so they can rebuild even after they have been destroyed in a war.

But thats not the topic here. Is defence fleets(revenges fleets) so good that it make ppl do OW PvP

[staun]

8 minutes ago, rediii said:

its not only 30ppl that do rvr. 30 that do it at the same time ok but I would guess around 100 in each nation, the hours of logged in time varies tho.

But RvR actions do the big marketing and big hidtory of NA. Without it NA means nothing and has nothing special (for me atleast and seems like moet havoc too)

100 Sound to much, But wether it is the one number ore the other, it have less to do with the Issue with RvR and NA. I started to play NA because some youtube videos from trafalgar battles they where called. 

How to make RvR better again, I have no solution. In The 1,5 years I played a bit of things have tried. Not sure ppl in the game can agree on what the right solution is.

- Some is in favor of a more hardcore version. Expensive ships. All ressources to the portowner(clan). All goes to the winner.

- Others I guess is more for a softcore approce. Ships should be more cheap, acces to same ressources, to make it more balanced.

Witch in the long run will be best, I can’t tell. But do think we need to be fixed on a heading and then work out mechanic that support that play.

[staun]

23 minutes ago, Released Privateer said:

@Sir Max Magic maybe PvE server is a better option for you? You can log out at any time you want and you won't lose anything. No one will interrupt your trade runs or PvE. 

On the topic, @vazco brings real issue of revenge fleets and retagging. 

I hear a lot of we need to do something against revenge fleets. What I do think ppl should do before they demand a change is to agree on a goal, then work out an idea of revenge fleet mechanic.

- Should there be revenge fleet in the game?

- If they are in the game, What there purpos?

- If they are in the game, what would be an acceptable kill death ration.

- If they are in the game, are they allowed to chase a hunter, ore are they there mainly to escort him out, to tell him if he dosent’t leave, he will be attacked.

- If they are in the game, how many times can a guy be forced in to battle? And what is the reaction when the numbers of battles are meth.

 

[admin]

50 minutes ago, rediii said:

its not only 30ppl that do rvr. 30 that do it at the same time ok but I would guess around 100 in each nation, the hours of logged in time varies tho.

But RvR actions do the big marketing and big hidtory of NA. Without it NA means nothing and has nothing special (for me atleast and seems like moet havoc too)

rvr importance will come back shining soon.

Expect port ownership to have major influence on gameplay. People want RVR and it is exciting. Some previous patches made it useless.

[staun]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

rvr importance will come back shining soon.

Expect port ownership to have major influence on gameplay. People want RVR and it is exciting. Some previous patches made it useless.

Maybe a bit more on your thoughts about RvR in the spirit of Christmas.

[admin]

11 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said:

 

I mean, are you Devs joking ???

 

 

Hello no. 

Logging off is only safe in port. This is a feature of the pvp game (almost any open world pvp game).

You are not safe at sea (for a couple of mins). We are all busy people sometimes so we let players log off at sea. Just wait for a couple of mins.
Logging off in battle sends you to sea (to avoid exploits). Then it logs you off anyway (same couple of minutes).
In there future if you need to run -  log off at sea (at least you can look around). Do not log off in battles (its a lottery). 

Overall
Life is more important - so it is really recommended to adopt "f*ck pixels" attitude if you wife is calling. 
 

[staun]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

 

Overall
Life is more important - so it is really recommended to adopt "f*ck pixels" attitude if you wife is calling. 
 

Thats a slippery road to take. She might start to expect we carry out the trash, go shopping with her, ore maybe even play with the kids.😱 Oh the horror.

[Sir Max Magic]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm kinda wondering if there was more to this story.

 @Sir Max Magic can you give us a little more details.  As stated there is a 2 min window after battles your kicked out and in the OW until your ship is logged out.  It's not even a full 2 mins that you an get tagged cause you still have the invincibility for leaving the battle and the no attack timer so they only really have like a 1.5 window to tag you.  Where you in Enemy waters? Was this a PvP Battle you just finished so there might of been some revenge ships out side waiting to catch you (most likely if your in enemy waters).  Where you in the middle of no where I tagged some one like this once, he was AFK logging out and I tagged him with my Indianman (he had one too).  No resistance and I notice no guns but ships was fully loaded with supplies. 

As stated above there is game mechanics made cause of abuse of players using simple mechanics that we would think is very user friendly.  Sounds like you didn't check if it was clear out side and just assumed you be able to log out in battle safely.  Take it as a learning experience always check out side before you log out. 2 mins is still 2 mins.   

As for having to go suddenly in real life I some times with if your ran the battle out for the full hour and half you should get a longer invisibility or chance to log out safely. I been retagged so many times that I had several battles run out for 3-5 hours.  Some with where I had to go I just said hello kitty it and surrender, some had told the other person and they let me go.  Other times most the chasing party gave up and I was able to turn and fight one or two (not the half dozen chasing me from start).   It's part of the game, remember every thing can be replaced.   

Okay friend, here some more details:

- nope, wasnt in enemy waters (half way from La Navasse to KPR)

- was sailing a Pirate Frigate with perfect woods/trim combination

- had 2 Fleet Ships, 1 Indiaman full of most expensive trading goods and 1 Renomee as another insurance

- got tagged by a Le Requin, in normal conditions no match for my Fleet, but being in vacations with VERY bad I-Net conditions, I decided to just fight him away from my Indiaman, which escaped safely and then because of immense lagging, sailing away straight downwind

- after awhile, he gave up the chase, not before myself apologizing to him for running because of said worse Connection

- because my Girlfriend was already waiting since 1 Hour, growing more angry every minute, i decided to just log off INSIDE battle instance AFTER he had left the battle

- when i was logging into the game 10 hours later, i found myself in KPR with only Renomee left and Pirate Frigate and Indiaman aswell gone

...and i still dont know, why i lost 2 out of my 3 ships ???

 

So recently coming back, i didnt knew about this said game mechanic, when i left the game, it was safe to logg off INSIDE battle instance !!! ...and no, there was NO warning...

 

 

But besides that, as some of my foreposters had mentionend, this newly introduced mechanic opens up for endless ganking, period: 

- you just want to play a few hours

- get caught (nothing bad about this, its PVP atleast)

- you win the fight

- you are running out of playing time

- you wants to logg off, but wait, outside battle is waiting a fleet of heavy killers and fast taggers, down- and upwind...

- you are forced to play on and on,, even when you basically should had go long time ago or lose everything ???

 

And some of you Guys wants to tell me, that isnt a perverted game mechanic ???

A ruthless game which punishes everyone who cannot go on for hours and hours until the game finally decides to just let you go ???

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Sir Max Magic

[Hawkwood]

4 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

but being in vacations with VERY bad I-Net conditions

Well, it was only your fault then.

[Hawkwood]

12 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

and i still dont know, why i lost 2 out of my 3 ships

Because you were playing with 1. Bad internet connection

                                                         2. Your girlfriend was "waiting"..( idk if anyone cares about this??)

                                                         3. You don´t know the mechanics, because like previously explained, if you log off in BATTLE, you will find yourself outside in OW,sitting ducks.                          

                                                          4. Going to Navasse is always a huge risk.

Overall, only your fault.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Hawkwood

[Sir Max Magic]

2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

So legit what're you saying is when you don't have time to play the game, you don't play. Fair enough, not everything takes that long. You could probably get a good PvE battle in 30 minutes or do a 2 way trade run in that 30 minutes, 

What I'm saying is that if I can get chased for 3 hours looking for pvp in any are where there's more than a few people that can get called over to help, then you didn't really give me a chance to play at all. How am I suppose to know when something is going to get dragged on from 1 hour to 3 hours or even more? Shit I got on after work at 11:00pm, got a battle, won, was feeling good because we won to then immediately as you exit be tagged again by a force 4x your size. Absolutely no contest. You're crazy if you think you'd be able to win that. You RUN doing everything you can do to get away.

So if we are going to put a cap on this distructively chaotic element of the game how are we going to do it? You can't say hey come play our game and not give an idea of how long playing the game takes. Which by that I mean say a battle ends at the 1 hour and 45 minute mark, but not tell people that another battle can be started right after than, and after that, aand after that that you have to do or you will lose everything you work for.

I mean......the hello kitty is that?

Who says he did? He addressed a problem that so happens addresses another problem. Solutions are what matters and you cannot attack someone who has brought up the problem of not being warned the consequence of quiting from the battle, after the battle is technically over according to the game. It never says if you leave from battle you will be kicked out back onto OW where you will then sit until you're logged off by timer.  But let me guess, you want everyone to make the same mistake right? Just kidding with you, but that's what it sounds like.

Now this is tyrannical thinking, no offense. "You ventured out of your comfort zone and confronted another player in an unsafe area of the map, managing to slip by undetected and contested by the players in that area. You managed a clean strike on someone who no one was able to join in time, it's you and him and you both duke it out and in a close battle you come out as victor. You collect collect your prize and exit the battle. 

As you pop into OW you see nothing but enemy ships around you, you are surrounded by 25 angry players who sailed from dozens of ports away to sit outside of your battle and wait for you to leave with the rewards you just earned for a successful action. You are promptly executed and laughed at for being such an idiot to come this far for pvp.
Is it right to punish people for that? Not only do I think that's wrong, but it's foolishly wrong to the point of worry for NA as a game that will ever capture the hearts of people who love the sailing aspect.

Cant agrre more to you friend +1.000

...and many thanks for fighting my cause better than i can^^

 

But its hopeless in this toxic community:

The only people left playing the game, seems to be bitter veterans who like the constant ganking and get ganking !

...having no clue what this makes with the game overall

 

But when one day the servers get shut down because the Devs can no longer sustain a game with a marginable playerbase, maybe they will finally wake up...

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

Cant agrre more to you friend +1.000

...and many thanks for fighting my cause better than i can^^

 

But its hopeless in this toxic community:

The only people left playing the game, seems to be bitter veterans who like the constant ganking and get ganking !

...having no clue what this makes with the game overall

 

But when one day the servers get shut down because the Devs can no longer sustain a game with a marginable playerbase, maybe they will finally wake up...

You logged off in a battle on the PVP server (risk, adrenaline, danger) not knowing the rules
You lost your ship
You blame the game (knowing that the only safe spot on the pvp server is the port) all in caps and bold font boiling with toxicity and loudness.
And now you attack the community for being toxic, just because they like unsafe seas on the pvp server 

We do not tolerate double standards here. Do not start boiling toxic threads if you dont want boiling toxic replies.

Happy holidays! Its just pixels.

Locked.