A Controversial Subject.

[LeBoiteux]

11 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

When you can redeem a free ship every day, you can afford to lose. People sail these ships like a basic cutter, they do not care about the outcome of the battle nearly as much which is meh. 

That's an unverifiable hypothesis about the behavior of those who sail redeemable ships.

(Those redeemable ships may carry things that have a monetary value : guns, upgrades, goods...)

However, let's pretend it's true : ppl sailing redeemable ships don't fear loss and easily accept fights. As jodgi wrote, great if DLC ships added this kind of behaviour.

As to me, I wrote : Le Requin and Hercules are not in top 15 by survivability. Thus, they can't be called P2W.

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, LeBoiteux said:

Those redeemable ships may carry things that have a monetary value : guns, upgrades, goods...)

Mine does.  Guns and upgrades aint cheap.  I have to craft or buy them.

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

As to me, I wrote : Le Requin and Hercules are not in top 15 by survivability. Thus, they can't be called P2W.

The devil is in the details. I for one will never sell the soul of this game "crafting, trading, capture" for cheap pvp. It's just wrong.
Also to say it can't be called P2W is beyond question, by all definition it is P2W and no amount of dissonance can change that.

 

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Mine does.  Guns and upgrades aint cheap.  I have to craft or buy them.

Yes, you and your wellfare ship are the victim, not the people who craft their ships on top of arming them.

Truth is if everyone only sailed DLC ships, NA would cease to exist. That's a fact.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

Naval Action without fear of loss is no longer Naval Action, it's something else not clearly defined.

But plz tell me where it is said in the game discription of NA that you should fell fear for losing a ship. I have not for long felt fear of losing a ship, And I did sail other ships than herc and Lrq. I actually to get ship knowledge on my indiaman and indy sailed over to the Swedes to get a fight and get some sjip knowledge. Guees I was in the wrong game when I did that.

What you want is some people not to feel loss, the people who pay a few bucks. That's a short term solution that only lasts until the only people left in game are people who'd really rather be in Naval Action:Legends.

So you actually think you are qualified to tell what I want. Would like to know where you got that insight from?  Just for the record I never have played  NA legend and never will.(I know never say never) But you are right I don't want ppl to stop go out and fight and have fun because the fear of losing a ship. But that goes for all player, wether it is a crafted ore dlc ship. Before Patch 27 and also before Dlc ships was part in the game. The clan I was in just crafted a new ship to a guy if he lost is, especialy new guys. It should never be the loss of a ship that made a guy stop ore not going out to fight. But you see that has nothing to do with Dlc ship, but all to do with trying to build up a nation that could function in RvR and PvP.

I do not belive those ships ruin everything ells in the game. Just some players use it as an excuse. But thats just my opinion.

But if I get you right. We should turn it hardcore? That will give much more players and content.

I would say that was a rather limited view on other players in the game. But plz tell me where it is said in the game discription of NA that you should fell fear for losing a ship.

Btw just a question. You never been one of those players laying outside a capitol and not got a fight? Not ever complaint about it on global ore on forum here? PPl not coming out fighting could be a concequens of being a affraid of losing there ship. But you are proberbly right. Better with few fights that matter than many that dosent matter.

 

[staun]

18 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Yes, they're very annoying to fight against as they do not follow the same rules as regular ships. They're above the rules, above meta-game, which is why people don't want BC in pvp. Of course the people sailing the BC will say it's okay, because they benefit from being above the law in that sense. That person is pvping for free while making tons of money, or how reviewers would say, pay2win

How the hell can that be P2W, Is basic cutters changed. Can we now only sail them if we have bought a dlc. Thought all that have paid for the game have acces to them.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, staun said:

I would say that was a rather limited view on other players in the game. But plz tell me where it is said in the game discription of NA that you should fell fear for losing a ship.

The difference between DLC ships and non-DLC ships is the game functions as a whole with regular ships, and ceases to exist with DLC ships because NA was built on an idea of Hardcore Open world RPG, and DLC ships are none of those things.

We know this because Naval Action Legends failed, and that was all premium, no loss ships.
Or imagine if DayZ sold it's players gear, that's a quick way to take the feet out from under your own game.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

14 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

The devil is in the details. I for one will never sell the soul of this game "crafting, trading, capture" for cheap pvp. It's just wrong.
Also to say it can't be called P2W is beyond question, by all definition it is P2W and no amount of dissonance can change that.

Well that they actually easy can change with the DLC ships. Make them capturable and let them cost real, lets say 15.000(thats trade to buy the permits for reals). and you have to craft the note on your ship yard.

Well dlc ships fixed.

edit:

Btw will you tell me you never redeemed a ship for PvP marks ore bought upgrades. Where is the crafting and trading in that?

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, staun said:

Well that they actually easy can change with the DLC ships. Make them capturable and let them cost real, lets say 15.000(thats trade to buy the permits for reals). and you have to craft the note on your ship yard.

Well dlc ships fixed.

exactly, but people are spoiled now and expect no frills free ships for life. Good fix though.

[staun]

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

exactly, but people are spoiled now and expect no frills free ships for life. Good fix though.

Oh I think it would go down fine by playes. I would though like more Tows a day. Just simply if you don't have a ship up where you sail out from, well it can be a long sail, I know it will bring you out in OW, but also think we both know if I wanted to sail a ship far, I might end up see a lot of wather and not much ells.

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

As Le Requin and Hercules are not in top 15 by survivability (out of about 40 in-game warships), they should be called P2L : pay to lose.

And I will be the one who will dare to ask the unique truly controversial question : should P2Ls be allowed in a game like NA ?

"Post of the Year" nominee.....

[HachiRoku]

43 minutes ago, staun said:

Btw will you tell me you never redeemed a ship for PvP marks ore bought upgrades. Where is the crafting and trading in that?

There is none but it is designed to be more expensive and requires the player to work for it. It does something good for the game overall by rewarding players for pvp. Redeeming on the other hand does nothing at all. 

[LeBoiteux]

30 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

"Post of the Year" nominee.....

Thank you !

But I don't know if I deserve it 😳

Oh my... I... I haven't... even... written a speech yet

😁 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, LeBoiteux said:

Thank you !

But I don't know if I deserve it 😳

Oh my... I... I haven't... even... written a speech yet

😁

*barf*

[staun]

22 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

There is none but it is designed to be more expensive and requires the player to work for it. It does something good for the game overall by rewarding players for pvp. Redeeming on the other hand does nothing at all. 

But in the days 30 PvP mark was cheap wouldn't you say. Now with Dbl the price seams more fair.

Edit:

But did it not make the gab betwen PvP player soft PvP bigger. My expirence balance is important to get a balanced game.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, staun said:

But in the days 30 PvP mark was cheap wouldn't you say. Now with Dbl the price seams more fair.

it depends on the player. For many players in GB 30 pvp marks were really hard to get. This is how I got pretty rich. I traded marks for mods. 

[Beeekonda]

I'm not reading 9 pages

is "DLC = OP/P2W becuase they dont need to be crafted" subject of this topic? 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Beeekonda said:

I'm not reading 9 pages

is "DLC = OP/P2W becuase they dont need to be crafted" subject of this topic? 

basically. 

[staun]

20 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

it depends on the player. For many players in GB 30 pvp marks were really hard to get. This is how I got pretty rich. I traded marks for mods. 

But was that not before the patrole zone. I mean after patrolezone was implemeted, I started to go solo up there alot. Often got some good fights. With damage and the kills I made, I often made around 150-200 marks a week.  

 

 

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

That's an unverifiable hypothesis about the behavior of those who sail redeemable ships.

(Those redeemable ships may carry things that have a monetary value : guns, upgrades, goods...)

However, let's pretend it's true : ppl sailing redeemable ships don't fear loss and easily accept fights. As jodgi wrote, great if DLC ships added this kind of behaviour.

As to me, I wrote : Le Requin and Hercules are not in top 15 by survivability. Thus, they can't be called P2W.

I think we can all agree that I pretty much explained why p2w has 0 to do with the combat effectiveness of the ships. P2W is almost never about an item being overpowered in terms of stats. Its gaining xp and items at faster rates in most cases. Even in free to play P2W games it is technically possible to get all the items with time. There are exceptions but in general it is more grind for free to play players. Are you denying that redeeming a ship in a freeport and  buying medium guns for them is just as time consuming and convenient as crafting a new ship and buying guns for it?

Also about the people not being afraid to loose their requins because they are free and pvp more is also nosense. People in most cases have all the shiny mods on their ship and do not want to loose them and people don't like sinking in general no matter what the ship cost because it hurts their ego. You just assume that because they are free. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, staun said:

But was that not before the patrole zone. I mean after patrolezone was implemeted, I started to go solo up there alot. Often got some good fights. With damage and the kills I made, I often made around 150-200 marks a week.  

 

 

No, 90% of the playerbase in this game are pure trash. Moscalb, Ram Dinark, Reverse and whoever else you see winning 10v1s win not because of skill but because there opponents are garbage. I am not denying they are good players but just the fact the rest are trash. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

I think we can all agree that I pretty much explained why p2w has 0 to do with the combat effectiveness of the ships. P2W is almost never about an item being overpowered in terms of stats. 

Except there they were for a while dominating shallows being the only 5th rates amongst 6th rates until someone had the bright idea to bring light frigates in to combat the hoards of DLC ships which drove people out of shallows, and the game.

Also you're right 90% of people are trash, only 20% of players even touch the realm of being 'good" which is why we have so few players. Most games cater to the 80% while NA caters to the 20%, of that 20%  10% will always dominate the 90% which is why people can win 10v1s, the game is just that out of wack balance wise.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

developing and testing is full of bright ideas that don't work, and full of bollocks that actually work.

 

[HachiRoku]

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Except there they were for a while dominating shallows being the only 5th rates amongst 6th rates until someone had the bright idea to bring light frigates in to combat the hoards of DLC ships which drove people out of shallows, and the game.

Also you're right 90% of people are trash, only 20% of players even touch the realm of being 'good" which is why we have so few players. Most games cater to the 80% while NA caters to the 20%, of that 20%  10% will always dominate the 90% which is why people can win 10v1s, the game is just that out of wack balance wise.

That is why the devs allow other ships in shallows now. I agree its a good move for now but not enough. In terms of stats the 2 ships need tweaks but the cost of them is the main issue for me. 

[LeBoiteux]

16 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I think we can all agree that I pretty much explained why p2w has 0 to do with the combat effectiveness of the ships. P2W is almost never about an item being overpowered in terms of stats. Its gaining xp and items at faster rates in most cases. Even in free to play P2W games it is technically possible to get all the items with time. There are exceptions but in general it is more grind for free to play players. Are you denying that redeeming a ship in a freeport and  buying medium guns for them is just as time consuming and convenient as crafting a new ship and buying guns for it?

Also about the people not being afraid to loose their requins because they are free and pvp more is also nosense. People in most cases have all the shiny mods on their ship and do not want to loose them and people don't like sinking in general no matter what the ship cost because it hurts their ego. You just assume that because they are free. 

So :

• DLC ships are not OP
• They allow ppl who don't have much time available to play NA in nice ships
• They add PvP
• DLC ships fund new ships in game

Thus they are bad ?

My answer is 'No. On the contrary'.

There's more important considerations than the dictature of 24 hour/7 day gamers who don't want others to play their game.

Edited December 21, 2018 by LeBoiteux

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

That is why the devs allow other ships in shallows now. I agree its a good move for now but not enough. In terms of stats the 2 ships need tweaks but the cost of them is the main issue for me. 

It seems we can agree on price being an issue, and stats being a minor issue.

I think we should just settle on either extending the redeem timer, or giving each redeem a flat rate cost. Maybe put it up for poll so we can make it offical.