A Controversial Subject.

[Zoky]

@staun As a mathematician I can tell you that you are mental and you don't know what you are talking about

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

okay. And 1500 doubloons + cannons ?

[staun]

1 minute ago, Thonys said:

oke, let me tell you that summed up crafting a single surprise (getting mats and waiting time LH and mission Reals gathering, building develop costs etc ., (whats my feeling, i never clocked it) is about 40 hours total.

so now you have a number what can differ from player to player and i do not have that data. only development has the exact data.

You tell me you have to spend 40 h of gameplay to craft a single suprice? I would say i could craft one a day for sure and proberbly 2.

[HachiRoku]

5 minutes ago, staun said:

I put an extra link in. Just danish ofc, just had to find it.. But I guess a smart guy like you can but them in context.

Go look at it again. You still would clame that 2+2 always is 4. Trolling maybe a bit. But that was to prove that because you call thing a fact, it is not always the truth. 2+2 is not always 4 as you claim. But fine you just as always ignors when you are proven wrong and try to make fun of ppl. Thats your debate style and I guess it is the one you belive will get you the best result.

As said it was splitting word, but sometime it is fun to do with you.

Whatever man. I don't need to say anything anymore. 

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Zoky said:

@staun As a mathematician I can tell you that you are mental and you don't know what you are talking about

I proberbly am mental, though i never have been to a doctor to get it. Do though like to be enlightend, Where do I go wrong to your knowledge. I am aware that no matter what system I use the actual numbers I have is the same, but what numbers it is equal to in each system is different. Ore is that wrong.

[Thonys]

1 minute ago, staun said:

You tell me you have to spend 40 h of gameplay to craft a single suprice? I would say i could craft one a day for sure and proberbly 2.

if you have nothing.... and want to build a surprise you will not get a ship even if you push the craft button 1000 times

building a herc is 3 clicks. 

you still have to invest on time for gathering the mats, waiting for LH hours, do missions for reals, and making buildings what cost resources what is translated in time and effort 

it has no comparison for the Hercules what is done in a zip 

[Zoky]

1 minute ago, staun said:

Ore is that wrong

long story short its wrong

[staun]

1 minute ago, Thonys said:

if you have nothing.... and want to build a surprise you will not get a ship even if you push the craft button 1000 times

building a herc is 3 clicks. 

you still have to invest on time for gathering the mats, waiting for LH hours, do missions for reals, and making buildings what cost resources what is translated in time and effort 

it has no comparison for the Hercules what is done in a zip 

Yeah do you start over again on each ship you build

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Zoky said:

long story short its wrong

Dont bother man. You could write a book about binary and send it to him he wouldn't get it. 

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Zoky said:

long story short its wrong

So in every numbers system(not sure what it is called in english) 2+2 would be written as a 4. What if the systems is a 1,2 ore 3 digted system?

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, staun said:

Yeah do you start over again on each ship you build

yes, you see everything is not unlimited.

i cannot make 54 surprises with 1000 reals and 50 teak logs,... i just cant . (lol my nation does not even have teak so have to trade them or sail for them )

 

so you have to start all over again.for every ship you lose

if you lose a Santa you build 2 replacements in one day right... i think you rage quit on materials first  and i did not even mention the Balloons 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

4 minutes ago, Thonys said:

yes, you see everything is not unlimited.

i cannot make 54 surprises with 1000 reals and 50 teak logs,... i just cant .

so you have to start all over again.for every ship you lose

if you lose a Santa you build 2 replacements in one day right... i think you rage quit on materials first  

First of all, lets compare ships that are on the same class.

Yes It is not unlimited. That I get, but do you have to build a new ship yard everytime. You only trade with the excat numbers of mats to craft exactly 1 surprice. I totally agree that Dlc ships are easier to come by. I just asked to if you actually spend 40 hours gametime on every ship you build.

I played around 10-20 hours a week and my guess i crafted about 10 ships a week. Less now where I play less ofc.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

1 minute ago, staun said:

First of all, lets compare ships that are on the same class.

Yes It is not unlimited. That I get, but do you have to build a new ship yard everytime. You only trade with the excat numbers of mats to craft exactly 1 surprice. I totally agree that Dlc ships are easier to come by. I just asked to if you actually spend 40 hours gametime on every ship you build.

oke just a simple thing 

have done 6000 hours and have 29 ships

6000: 29 =206 hours for one ship average

and it can differ for every other captain  

[staun]

Just now, Thonys said:

oke just a simple thing 

have done 6000 hours and have 29 ships

6000: 29 =206 hours for one ship average

and it can differ for every other captain  

So in all the 6ooo hours you only have crafted 29 ships?  Your claim is, thay you use 206 hours to craft a ship?

[Thonys]

9 minutes ago, staun said:

So in all the 6ooo hours you only have crafted 29 ships?  Your claim is, thay you use 206 hours to craft a ship?

good one 

but i do not know how much ships i lost don't know the exact numbers 

development knows and i lost more cutters than Santis so you give me the numbers 

i also crafted more hercs (3 click ships) than regular build surprise ships 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Thonys

[HachiRoku]

4 minutes ago, staun said:

So in every numbers system(not sure what it is called in english) 2+2 would be written as a 4. What if the systems is a 1,2 ore 3 digted system?

You know you are only proving one piece of evidence to us now. You do not care about the p2w status of this game. You just like contradicting people. BTW feel free to show me an example of binary where 2+2 is not 4. Its just a different language but the outcome is the same. The only reason is because PCs only understand true and false. If that was the case then your PC would not work.

My proof that I am correct is simple

Go to C:\Windows\system32 and open calc.exe

once this program is open you enter this equation: 2+2 and then press enter.  

You if you followed the steps correctly you will get the magic number. 

[staun]

1 minute ago, Thonys said:

good one 

but i do not know how much ships i lost don't know the exact numbers 

development knows and i lost more cutters than Santis so you give me the numbers 

I can't you know that as well as I do. Not even devs can tell how much time you spend of game time exactly to craft a ship. But lets be honnest it was you that brought up the 6000 h and 29 ships, From personally experience the time I each week spend on gather ressources and trading to craft ships was most likely around and avrage of 8-10 and for that I could craft 1 ship in avarage a day. Depend on the ship build.

[Thonys]

8 minutes ago, staun said:

I can't you know that as well as I do. Not even devs can tell how much time you spend of game time exactly to craft a ship. But lets be honnest it was you that brought up the 6000 h and 29 ships, From personally experience the time I each week spend on gather ressources and trading to craft ships was most likely around and avrage of 8-10 and for that I could craft 1 ship in avarage a day. Depend on the ship build.

true 

but we have to throw up the ball.

you know it-  i know it .

the fact stays there is a difference somewhere we don't have our hands on.

perhaps the invested building hours for a surprise is 24 hours.. 👁️‍🗨️

what i do know is 3 click for a herc is zero invested hours

Edited December 22, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

30 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You know you are only proving one piece of evidence to us now. You do not care about the p2w status of this game. You just like contradicting people. BTW feel free to show me an example of binary where 2+2 is not 4. Its just a different language but the outcome is the same. The only reason is because PCs only understand true and false. If that was the case then your PC would not work.

My proof that I am correct is simple

Go to C:\Windows\system32 and open calc.exe

once this program is open you enter this equation: 2+2 and then press enter.  

You if you followed the steps correctly you will get the magic number. 

Would that now mean it would say something like 2+2= 22 if I use the 2-digit system. Again it is 25 years since i had it in college, so I can have it wrong. But you are right that have very little to do with this topic. As I said it was splitting words.

No I don't care about P2W. Neither if it is here ore not. What I care about is to get a game that is living and have a prospering population. A game where skills matter, but where the less skilled players also can find his place and have fun. For me it is a question to find the mechanichs that support that goal. i don't have a holy crusade against DLC ships, neither am I a beliver for it. I played the game before they where put in here and it was not the dlc Ships that made me stay at the time. What did kill me of was patch 27. Before patch I only sailed Herc in the Nassau, for all other patrolezones I crafted my ship. The time I sailed a Herc out side the Nassau was extrem limited. Used it in a couple of pb, but actually first got the le reguin after Havoc when dutch attacked us and they had it.

Personaly I think the Dlc ship is a tool that can be used in the game. How and in what range is always up to debate. But for me the argument that is P2W means nothing. What matters is to get a game, that overall that is succesfully. That the debate we should have, not what things is called. How we turn the game around so we see ppl in the game. Unless the state we are in right now is what ppl would call a succesfully and prospering game.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

oddly enough my brain always reads P2W and play to win  

can't cope with all this slang and short forms

Anyway,, surprise note, 1500 dubloons + cannons, how much is that ?

[jodgi]

? at you guys taking cheap shots at @staun over his matchmatical openness. @Zoky, as a mathmatician you should celebrate that he thinks outside the box! 2 + 2 could be anything and you know it, @Zoky.

The Danish and French use, I guess you could call it, a combination of positional 10 digit system and additive system (20) when they speak, ech, at least they think and speak in multiples... and I suppose that makes them more open to the idea that depending on the system numbers could mean different values when translated.

staun is right on when he suggests

31 minutes ago, staun said:

What if the systems is a 1,2 ore 3 digted system?

3 digit positional system: 0, 1 and 2

0 is 0

1 is 1

2 is 2

3 is 10

4 is 11

2 + 2 = 11

We don't have to stop there, we could imagine a 4 digit system where 2 + 2 = 10

We don't have to stop there we, could imagine an additive system where 2 means hello kittying anything and 2 + 2 means also hello kittying anything!

Heh, I don't know where you guys are going with this. But maybe it was to illustrate that depending on system and representation one person's assumptions won't necessarity line up logically with the other guy's.

_____________

In some of you guys' system what happens in the game economy means something. In my system eco means squat and I think it's all in your head as some sort of role-play. It's the same the other way around. I place the utmost value on "The Fight" to the point that everything else is completely devalued. Someone who places value on the eco bit will rightly claim that I'm wrong because according to his system I really am wrong.

Shame on you for trying to win an argument by ridicule! (I have done that myself, I'm afraid... Forgive me, for I am weak!)

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, staun said:

Personaly I think the Dlc ship is a tool that can be used in the game. How and in what range is always up to debate. But for me the argument that is P2W means nothing. What matters is to get a game, that overall that is succesfully. That the debate we should have, not what things is called. How we turn the game around so we see ppl in the game. Unless the state we are in right now is what ppl would be a succesfully and prospering game.

For me p2w matters and if it is not resolved I will not play the game again once I see it would be changed. I see the facts and I don't like them. There are enough players that agree with me about this so I guess if the issue is not solved Naval Action will reap what it sows. When release comes and those ships are still free. You will see a huge amount of new players being farmed from dlc ships. Those players will not be able to defend themselves because they lack resourses, mats, gold and shipyards. Even the good players wont be able to do a thing because after the release nobody will have anything but DLC ships. The people with the dlc will enter the game, redeem their ship and farm noobs. Good look to the game then. 

[HachiRoku]

3 minutes ago, jodgi said:

imagine

Ignorance is bliss so I will give you that. 

To be serious for a second. Answer me honestly. Do you believe in the multiverse? Yes or no question. 

[traitorous mctraitoro]

I didn't read the whole topic. On purpose.

But those ships you suggested, they are balanced fine I think. They have different uses of course. Dueling is only a part of sandbox play so comparisons of ship Vs ship is kind of pointless if say, one is better at catching ships it will.probably be weaker. Etc etc bla bla.bla.

[staun]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

For me p2w matters and if it is not resolved I will not play the game again once I see it would be changed. I see the facts and I don't like them. There are enough players that agree with me about this so I guess if the issue is not solved Naval Action will reap what it sows. When release comes and those ships are still free. You will see a huge amount of new players being farmed from dlc ships. Those players will not be able to defend themselves because they lack resourses, mats, gold and shipyards. Even the good players wont be able to do a thing because after the release nobody will have anything but DLC ships. The people with the dlc will enter the game, redeem their ship and farm noobs. Good look to the game then. 

@jodgi wrote it nicely a bit up. We just view the world diffently. For you p2w seams like a holy grail in a game. For me it it is not a yes ore no. I would like a game where there was no advantage at all in dlc, but I am also realistic. For me in the end whats mattes is will it gives a better overall game play ore not. Personally i dont think the ships is the biggest p2w win we have in the game. it is alts accounts. But even you who is against p2w use them from time to time.

Not sure the new guys will be farmed more because of dlc ships. The pvp playes will just buy a store ship and go to patrolezone and then redeem a ship from the admiralty for the dbl they got, and then they are set to hunt new players. If we care about farming new players I think it it the mechanic of the game we should look at. Should we have newbie zones, should they be protected from pvp for maybe the first 50-100 hours ore another and better reinforcement zone. New way to do missions. i would think such tings would help against farming new players, more than the removal of dlc ships.