Too many doubloons in AI trade ships

[Draymoor]

Why does every change in this game even a hot fix has to be done in extremes...? We needed some more doubloons in the economy but now you can easily get between 1500 and 4000 doubloons from 1 lousy AI trader that takes no effort to sink. While missions continue to reward 1000 doubloons for sinking multiple SOLs??? 

A kill mission will reward you with less 100 doubloons for sinking 3 ships equal to your own ships rating but go and sink one trader brig and you can score 1500 doubloons? Where is the sense? Where is the balance? If you're going to increase the amount of doubloons rewarded it has to be done in every instance in which doubloons can be earner and increase it according to the challenge and difficulty of each task. A immediate hot fix is needed to reduce the amount of doubloons dropped by AI traders to at least 25% of their current values and AI warships to around 50% of current values. 

Please increase the doubloons rewarded from other sources like all mission types, damage done in pvp, events. We can't fix the economy by breaking it in a different way. 
 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Draymoor

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Intrepido said:

What it should be done asap is pvp, economic (trade, craft, transport, postal service) and rvr missions with proper rewards (chests, doubloons).

 

Many guys dont come to the game to grind an AI trader or a NPC fleet.

PvP Missions are coming.

But... all missions can be done with PvP - like kill 10x 5th rates. Can be done with PvP kills and get the two chests.

Doesn't have to be AI.

[AeRoTR]

I agree that missions rewards has to be increased.

Aside from kill missions, other missions like sink 20x1st should be automaticaly taken, and should not consume mission slots. Should be like achievements, will give some doubloons, not 1500 dubloons for sinking 20x1st rate, more dubloons, but like achievements. You do them while playing the game, not like looking for 20x1st rate.

I find dubloons from military ai ships to be good improvement. But AI traders should not travel alone with 2000 dubloons in hold, should have some reinforcements with him. Rare occurances can happen, ai captain can try to run away with many dubloons in hold, alone.

I still think more dubloons are better than no dubloons.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Intrepido said:

I know. But I believe pvp missions should be rewarded better than pve missions. At the end it is more risky and takes more time to sink a player than a npc.

We have to wait. I'm eagerly wanting to see what they conjure.

Still, given the mission system is so new, report the odd situations.

Example:

- hunt missions for 12x 5th rates giving a Mission Chest + Silver chest

- hunt mission for 8x Wasa giving the same.

- doubloons were the same for both.

BUT... there's no prerequisite, so can be done with any ship. So in a 3rd rate both those missions are peanuts against AI.

But if they had rate requisite things could be different.

[Draymoor]

1 minute ago, AeRoTR said:

I agree that missions rewards has to be increased.

Aside from kill missions, other missions like sink 20x1st should be automaticaly taken, and should not consume mission slots. Should be like achievements, will give some doubloons, not 1500 dubloons for sinking 20x1st rate, more dubloons, but like achievements. You do them while playing the game, not like looking for 20x1st rate.

I find dubloons from military ai ships to be good improvement. But AI traders should not travel alone with 2000 dubloons in hold, should have some reinforcements with him. Rare occurances can happen, ai captain can try to run away with many dubloons in hold, alone.

I still think more dubloons are better than no dubloons.

 

I was thinking of the same things about some missions being achievements instead that can be done in tiers that unlock as you accomplish them. I like the AI dropping more doubloons as well, but it's insane how many you can currently get from any AI trader. More doubloons yes, but in the right places. 

[Draymoor]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Imo, the Kill missions are a waste of time. It should give a bit more doubloons (2-3x).

The rest of missions (Hunt, S&D) looks fine to me. I dont think we need to buff those.

The missions being buffed would be better than dropping thousands of doubloons in AI trader holds.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Idea is for ships to sail and engage enemy nation ships ( ai or players ). Kill missions are nice for newcomers, but not for hardy veterans ( on War server ).

[AeRoTR]

I would prefer kill mission to give at least 1 transport fee, not like 9 dubloons

Joke aside a kill mission which you kill sometimes bigger ships / more ships etc. should give some dubloons, enough to buy a "Gazelle" or "Labour Hour" contract etc. 

[Archaos]

Where are these traders that drop thousands of doubloons, because I cannot seem to find them. All the traders I capture seem to have trade goods. The easiest way to get doubloons at the moment is to enter patrol zone in a cutter and keep doing it to grind up damage.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Archaos said:

Where are these traders that drop thousands of doubloons, because I cannot seem to find them. All the traders I capture seem to have trade goods. The easiest way to get doubloons at the moment is to enter patrol zone in a cutter and keep doing it to grind up damage.

Random... but not so quite... 

6k doubloons in a LGV inbound Great Corn ( free port )

2.5k in a LGV outbound Key West ( old free port )

average is 300 - 700 from my notes.

 

[Draymoor]

6 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The easiest way to get doubloons at the moment is to enter patrol zone in a cutter and keep doing it to grind up damage.

Not true at all anymore, was true a week ago. It's by far easier to make doubloons in PvE now. I can make 5 to 10 times more doubloons in PvE than in the PZ. 

[JDAM]

26 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

Why does every change in this game even a hot fix has to be done in extremes...? We needed some more doubloons in the economy but now you can easily get between 1500 and 4000 doubloons from 1 lousy AI trader that takes no effort to sink. While missions continue to reward 1000 doubloons for sinking multiple SOLs??? 

A kill mission will reward you with less 100 doubloons for sinking 3 ships equal to your own ships rating but go and sink one trader brig and you can score 1500 doubloons? Where is the sense? Where is the balance? If you're going to increase the amount of doubloons rewarded it has to be done in every instance in which doubloons can be earner and increase it according to the challenge and difficulty of each task. A immediate hot fix is needed to reduce the amount of doubloons dropped by AI traders to at least 25% of their current values and AI warships to around 50% of current values. 

Please increase the doubloons rewarded from other sources like all mission types, damage done in pvp, events. We can't fix the economy by breaking it in a different way. 
 

Disagree on the simple fact we need multiple income streams for different play styles.  For some being able to source their dubs on AI traders is a good way, others thru the patrol zone, and others through OW PVP.   Guys who do soley OW PVP often don't go after AI and guys who go after AI don't go after OW PVP.  Balanced for everyone imho.... casual and hardcore.  Thank you @admin for the change in drops it was needed, let us save some up and let's see if we can get some big ships back into play again while still keeping them expensive.

[Draymoor]

10 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Idea is for ships to sail and engage enemy nation ships ( ai or players ). Kill missions are nice for newcomers, but not for hardy veterans ( on War server ).

Newcomers aren't fighting AI 3 to 1 or even 2 to 1. Those missions aren't for newcomers and they also have useless rewards in 90% of cases. 

[JDAM]

Not to mention the supposed price is too high at 250-300 real per, when the doubloon is supposed to be plentiful and at 10 real per doubloon.  We are a long way off from that and the only way is to increase the supply of doubloons to drive the price down in reals.

[Draymoor]

1 minute ago, Hemp Amore said:

Disagree on the simple fact we need multiple income streams for different play styles.  For some being able to source their dubs on AI traders is a good way, others thru the patrol zone, and others through OW PVP.   Guys who do soley OW PVP often don't go after AI and guys who go after AI don't go after OW PVP.  Balanced for everyone imho.... casual and hardcore.  Thank you @admin for the change in drops it was needed, let us save some up and let's see if we can get some big ships back into play again while still keeping them expensive.

I don't disagree with multiple avenues for acquiring doubloons at all, it's a question of balance. I'm mostly a PvE player and I'm one proposing to reduce doubloons from PvE. You mention balance, which currently doesn't exist. It's far easier to make 10k doubloons in PvE in one day than it is to do it in PvP. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Draymoor said:

Newcomers aren't fighting AI 3 to 1 or even 2 to 1. Those missions aren't for newcomers and they also have useless rewards in 90% of cases. 

7th and 6th rates are 1v1. There are missions that are 1v2 for those that want more challenge.

5th rates missions... well... better to go out and hunt them.

[JDAM]

Well it doesn't matter because the economy requires an increase in supply of gold to correct the value of the doubloon when converting to the real.  

[Njord]

Well for PvE I think it makes sense to have AI traders sometimes drop large amounts of doubloons. AI Warships = Repairs, Guns, Upgrades and Skillbooks versus AI Trader = Resources, Trading goods and doubloons. Seems balanced and fitting to be honest. Only Player warships should drop large amounts of doubloons, not AI warships.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Sovereign

[Draymoor]

1 minute ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

7th and 6th rates are 1v1. There are missions that are 1v2 for those that want more challenge.

5th rates missions... well... better to go out and hunt them.

Yeah but those more challenging missions don't give better rewards. 

Just now, Hemp Amore said:

Well it doesn't matter because the economy requires an increase in supply of gold to correct the value of the doubloon when converting to the real.  

You're kind of missing the point, arguing points that were not made. The post is about balance in the ways of acquiring doubloons. Not about not increasing the amount that can be earned from multiple different sources. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Draymoor said:

Yeah but those more challenging missions don't give better rewards. 

Those are Kill missions. Can be done in full safety of reinforcement zones. That's how I reason their low pay.

Rear Admirals hunting for excellent rewards should sail forth and brave the open sea, together in a multiplayer environment.

 

[Draymoor]

3 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Well for PvE I think it makes sense to have AI traders sometimes drop large amounts of doubloons. AI Warships = Repairs, Guns, Upgrades and Skillbooks versus AI Trader = Resources, Trading goods and doubloons. Seems balanced and fitting to be honest. Only Player warships should drop large amounts of doubloons.

So you think it makes sense for a player in a 3rd rate to drop 700 doubloons and LGVs dropping 3000? I hunted 10 AI brigs tonight and made over 10k doubloons in a couple of hours, how long to make that from PvP? What is the point of take a mission to sink 10 5th rates for 500 doubloons if you can regularly get 1500 from 1 AI brig?

Edited December 17, 2018 by Draymoor

[JDAM]

2 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

You're kind of missing the point, arguing points that were not made. The post is about balance in the ways of acquiring doubloons. Not about not increasing the amount that can be earned from multiple different sources. 

No, that is precisely the point.  You say they’re too many, but they economy says they’re not enough from any and all sources.  The 300 real price point says that.  The devs desire a 10 real price point for the doubloon.  So the only way to get that is to increase the supply in the economy from all sources.  It doesn’t matter where they come from, but they have to get infused into the economy aka players pulling doubloons of any and all activity they do in OW.  When all global players have more doubloons to spend, it will drive the price down because supply & demand = price.  Right now doubloons have too high a perceived value because simply put people don’t have enough.  Until  all players as a whole have more the price will remain inflated because demand is greater than supply.  

[Draymoor]

8 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

No, that is precisely the point.  You say they’re too many, but they economy says they’re not enough from any and all sources.  The 300 real price point says that.  The devs desire a 10 real price point for the doubloon.  So the only way to get that is to increase the supply in the economy from all sources.  It doesn’t matter where they come from, but they have to get infused into the economy aka players pulling doubloons of any and all activity they do in OW.  When all global players have more doubloons to spend, it will drive the price down because supply & demand = price.  Right now doubloons have too high a perceived value because simply put people don’t have enough.  Until  all players as a whole have more the price will remain inflated because demand is greater than supply.  

No I didn't say there are too many, I said there are too many from AI traders.  I agree with you, but don't think giving away doubloons is the solution. . They should be increased in all sources in a balanced way not just drop thousands in AI trader holds, as you yourself say, currently that is not the case. It does matter where they come from, risk/effort should equal reward. Why would I go to the PZ to earn 2k doubloons from 20k damage when I can get that from 1 AI trader that takes 3 minutes to sink. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Draymoor

[Njord]

6 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

So you think it makes sense for a player in a 3rd rate to drop 700 doubloons and LGVs dropping 3000? I hunted 10 AI brigs tonight and made over 10k doubloons in a couple of hours, how long to make that from PvP? What is the point of take a mission to sink 10 5th rates for 500 doubloons if you can regularly get 1500 from 1 AI brig?

I didn't say that. What about increasing PvP and mission doubloon reward instead of removing AI traders as viable and desirable target? The main reward for missions should be chests anyways and PvP definitely needs a buff in doubloon reward.

[Draymoor]

2 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I didn't say that. What about increasing PvP and mission doubloon reward instead of removing AI traders as viable and desirable target? The main reward for missions should be chests anyways and PvP definitely needs a buff in doubloon reward.

I was glad for the increase in doubloons in the economy but the risk/effort should equal the reward. Currently the easiest thing to do, hunt AI traders, is the most rewarding. But yes, that would be much better imho.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Draymoor