Patch 29. Sextant, shallow water changes, improvements in the User interface.

[Koltes]

13 hours ago, admin said:

 

Full port battles and more port battles are better than empty port battles and no port battles. 
Surprise is better than herc and lrq. Properly fitted cerberus and renommee are also good against those ships.

And all of them are better than any 6th rate

I'm just not sure that shallows should see 5th rates altogether. This puts your 6th rates to a complete waste and you are going to achieve exactly the opposite - empty port battles or port battles where newbs cant participate.
Shallow PBs are the way for new captains and casuals to get some RVR without breaking the bank. Now they wont be able to do it, because all these Mercs, Rattlesnakes, Snows cant compete in shallow waters. What is going to be the use of those ships?
 

[Macjimm]

I like sailing.  Navigation is the best part about it.  I'm hoping that the sextant provides a grid reference so there will still be something to do while out at sea.  If the sextant is just a excuse to put a GPS icon or magic circle on the map then there will be no navigation at all.  It may sound like a minor difference but having to refer to the grid on a map makes locating the position more interesting.  

Keeping my fingers and toes crossed, hoping that my ship's location is not shown as a dot or circle on the map.  And if it is .... then I hope we can have a option to keep the F11 so the grid reference is available to those us who want a sextant, but really don't want to see our ship on the map.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Macjimm

[William Death]

13 hours ago, admin said:

Full port battles and more port battles are better than empty port battles and no port battles. 
Surprise is better than herc and lrq. Properly fitted cerberus and renommee are also good against those ships.

I think letting the little frigates into the shallows is ok, but they wouldn't need to go there if Hercules and Requin were a bit better balanced....anyways.

That being said, anything that encourages use of Surprise/Reno/Cerb might be a good thing.

 

Comparing Hercules to Surprise, Renommee, and Cerberus...well Hercules beats them in pretty much every category but side HP and crew.

Hercules has:
speed
turn rate
mast HP
broadside weight

Surprise, Cerb, and Reno have:
crew (well, not Cerb)
side HP (Reno has +1cm thickness hull and masts)
Cerb & Reno sail a bit better at extreme downwind angles, Surprise at extreme upwind angles. (very slight differences)

To get even the same speed as a Teak/WO Hercules, the Surprise/Reno has to be made Teak/Fir or lighter. Keeping in mind it'll still have worse turn rate, broadside firepower, mast HP, and roughly equal side HP, but less thickness.

 

My experience fighting a decent player in a Hercules with my Surprise supports this theory that Hercules is just plain better than Surprise:

I was Teak/Cedar with lots of speedmods and I believe my opponent's Hercules was Teak/WO. I barely had a speed and sailing profile advantage over him. Firepower was laughably in his favor as was thickness and HP. I had longs, he had carros. 5-6 hits and my mainmast was gone. It took me like 7-8 hits to take out his mast. I repaired and gained range.
I tried the usual strategy of a fast ship with longs: stay at range where his carros won't pen me and I smash his hull with my long cannons. Well guess what? At a range where 32 carros wouldn't pen me, 9pd longs bounced off his curved & easily angled hull.
I got tired of playing the repair game (run in, deliver 1-3 broadsides and run back out to repair) with him, so I chained and left the battle. No point in sticking around to sink a DLC ship that he can just redeem again the next day. Especially since I was risking a very nice 4/5 hunting Surprise with good mods.

Furthermore, others I've heard from had a similar experience fighting Surprise vs Hercules. 

 

I highly suggest a buff to Surprise/Reno/Cerberus mast thickness and HP. Also, a nerf to the super tiny masts of Hercules (which are very hard to hit because they're so slim). 

This should be done whether or not these ships ever make it into the shallows. I love dear old Surprise, but its just impractical to sail right now because the masts are so laughably weak. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, z4ys said:

@admin Regarding the upcoming chnages can we try real shallows in the bahamas? So pbs get actual set by the ships that will fight the pb.

Remember when we had that PvP zone down in the GREAT BAHAMA BANK are?  We should have another there that isn't apart of the Nassau Patrol zone.  Make that area like a perm PvP DEATH FFA zone that any one can join the battles and fight any one.  There is no sides so even same nation players can kill each other.  It's so not being used other than a few lonely trade ships that fly through that area.

4 hours ago, z4ys said:

Price is pretty cheap therefore that people can use it to sail deep in the ocean determining their position, never getting lost, never fear of being attacked.

I think we will see it more used by casuals and newer players than anything. I'm just hoping grids put back on the map along with it.  So even though if we don't have the perk we can tell some one to meet at this spot.  Than they can figure out how to get there.   Or they could use the perk to assist them if they have problems navigating the map.

[Captiva]

34 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

So even though if we don't have the perk we can tell some one to meet at this spot.  Than they can figure out how to get there.   Or they could use the perk to assist them if they have problems navigating the map.

I don't understand all of the concern over the use of a sextant. The compass directs you toward your destination. The sextant only gives you and idea of where you are along the journey. It's so elementary to sailing, that I'm baffled at the opposition to it's inclusion in the game.

I also believe that it should be an item that is purchased or crafted; it should not warrant the spending of 2 perk points - "I'm sorry, Lord Nelson, but you can have double shot or a sextant. The choice is yours. Godspeed."

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Captiva said:

I don't understand all of the concern over the use of a sextant. The compass directs you toward your destination. The sextant only gives you and idea of where you are along the journey. It's so elementary to sailing, that I'm baffled at the opposition to it's inclusion in the game.

I also believe that it should be an item that is purchased or crafted; it should not warrant the spending of 2 perk points - "I'm sorry, Lord Nelson, but you can have double shot or a sextant. The choice is yours. Godspeed."

Oh I agree with you and I think double and charge should be auto just like chain shot is.  Perk system really needs revamped. 

I personnel would love to just return the grid and cords as they are not a god dot folks act like they are.  You still got to figure out where you are on the map.  We should never had to use 3rd party stuff to do what should been in the game any way.

[Slim McSauce]

20 hours ago, admin said:

 

Full port battles and more port battles are better than empty port battles and no port battles. 
Surprise is better than herc and lrq. Properly fitted cerberus and renommee are also good against those ships.

This is true and as long as any future DLC ship is redeemed by permit, not by thin air than I can live with these two ships in the shallows. In fact I would prefer if the Herc and Requin were only permitted in shallows. Well maybe not the herc but the requin definitely because I hate fighting those things, such time wasters for me when all they do is run. Having a properly fitted surprise you can make quick work of a unprepared requin captain, but that's not all I want to be seeing in deep waters where the big boys should be playing, none of these paper troll ships.

[Slim McSauce]

11 hours ago, OjK said:

No. I do not. This is way across the line of P2W for me to morally accept it.
Neither Admiralty DLC, or alt characters.
 

Morally you should want to continue help fund the developers 

For all practical sense the ships ARE pay to win in the context of an OW MMO where buying gear with real world money to loot other players is the focus point.

Future DLC ships should be permit redeemed and capturable.

An attempt at making the requin/herc this way should be made as well. They do in fact cross the line and although letting light ships in may be able to correct this, it's still a problem with being too far out there for NA's meta to allow riskless ships in the greater part of the pvp scene.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Marquis de la Fayette]

Il y a 9 minutes, Slim McSauce a déclaré:

Cela est vrai et tout-à-fait futur navire DLC est racheté par permis, et pas par air, que je ne peux pas vivre avec ces deux navires dans les bas-fonds. En fait, je préférerais que le Herc et le Requin soient autorisés que dans les bas-fonds. Eh bien, peut-être que vous avez besoin de faire ce que vous voulez, que ce soit de façon à ce qu'ils soient perdus, que ce soit de temps pour que ce soit eux qui courent. With a good surprise, one-time-make-up-a-work-master, mais ce n'est pas tout ce que je veux voir dans les eaux profondes.

Objection pertinente et pleine de bon sens ... Bas fonds pour le requin.

Cordialement, La Fayette

Edited December 12, 2018 by Marquis de la Fayette

[admin]

main post updated

 

[qw569😳]

22 hours ago, admin said:

• • To use the custom file for your version of the translation:

 

I would like to see the same mechanics to customize map in the game.

Edited December 12, 2018 by qw569

[La bouche]

41 minutes ago, admin said:

main post updated

 

Any chance to economy missions coming in this patch too?

[HachiRoku]

16 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

only if you let it....   Le Req can't turn a Prince if you can manual sail and anticipate his move

Edit: and save your sail rep til you REALLY need it.

You're wrong there. I have been pushed into the wind in my trinco against them many times. All they need to do is push you close hauled. Requin has a huge sail force and turn rate to stall any ship like that. They don't need to push you down to 3.5 knots. They need to bleed your speed of until either their team mate helps or the wind shifts or they sink you by hiding under guns. I was once pushed by one for 30 min and couldn't sink him nor could he pull me. My speed was stuck at 5 knots and an enemy Bellona caught up and did the rest. Even if the requin is leeward the trincs top decks and some bottoms overshoot. Make a video with @Hethwill the Red Dukeof you pushing a requin with a trinco. You cannot. Requin can't be pushed by any ship yet has the ability to push most ships simply because she is so fast close hauled. Don't defend something you know is op but don't want to accept. I don't Blame the ship however. I blame the fact that pushing is so effective against a ship that is 3x its mass. People like to point fingers a ships. Mechanics are all that are to blame. Same goes for the Herc "OP" calibers. A speed nerf and turn rate nerf would not do any of those ships any harm. 

 

[HachiRoku]

50 minutes ago, admin said:

main post updated

 

If you don't make the Hercules and requin craftable these changes will be hard to test. Why craft a surprise or another shallow ship if you get a Hercules with 18s or requin with crew an sailing profile for free? 

[Suppenkelle]

15 minutes ago, qw569 said:

I would like to see the same mechanics to customize map in the game.

+100

[HachiRoku]

14 hours ago, Marquis de la Fayette said:

Que d agressivité HachiRoku... Ce jeu est extraordinaire. Et je pense qu'un peu de tolérance, de patience et de bon sens participeront à son bon développement.

Cordialement,. La Fayette.

Why call me agressive for being the only objective person here? I don't blame ships. I don't call ships P2W. I try to defend players that like the dlc ships as what they are. I don't ever say anything negative with giving a reason for it. I don't have 4000 hours in game because I dislike it. 

[Slim McSauce]

17 hours ago, OjK said:

In what precisely?
Herc outruns it by 0,5 kn, out-turn it by 1 point and has 30% more cannon broadside weight.
So again, in which part Surprise is better than Hercules?
Maybe the strong riggi... Wait.. Nope...
 

Having 40 crew more?
 

Oh, it absolutely doesn't matter it has more crew, because Le'Troll has even more, and has 50 boarding prep all the time.

 

This is absolutely a step backward. We're going back to DLC-to-win Shallow PB's? 
Amazing stuff. Now, as mentioned before, organise the first "Conquest" activity across the server on shallow ports, to see which nation has most $$$.

 

Wow... Just wow...

This is a very tough problem that requires much thought to be solved, there is no necessarily best route. Any move regarding these DLC ships will be very risky with player relations with how far herc/lrq extends farther than usual for NA. It may just be something we learn to live with for shallows only if we want to move these ships out of the rest of OW where the ships are seen generally more as pests than respectable ships to fight against. I personally take less favor knowing that the pesky lone herc or pair of reqs I have to swap away to keep them from icing our newer players that it's kind of our responsibility as a community to help learn the game, it's even harder for us for less of the reward if instead of a trinc, two hercs and a req it was a two trincs, an essex and a bellona. That's a much more enjoyable composition of ships to fight for a deep water battle. 
Once gone from deep waters I really wouldn't want these ships to return, as they are not in line with the OW meta.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Archaos]

13 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

I said in a Storm. Not at night.  

Just to be pedantic, star sights are not taken at night as you cannot see the horizon, they are taken at dawn and dusk. 😉

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Just imagine Hachi seated for almost 6 months non-stop in front of his screen...

(6 bleeding months of his REAL life !!!!)

He's a fanatical NA lover, no question !

no problem if you have 2+ monitors, 1 for series and 1 for naval action

Edited December 12, 2018 by Guest

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Archaos said:

Just to be pedantic, star sights are not taken at night as you cannot see the horizon, they are taken at dawn and dusk. 😉

Latitude aye. Longitude until the end of the 18th century, so so. Once outside the sight of land was by estimation. Hence many logbooks state - "easting" or "westing" as per appropriate estimation of the captain and navigation crew. And if latitude couldn't be measured - Pole Star is nice but not everywhere, especially not in a storm - they added "northing" or "southing".

The Buccaneer Atlas is great with all this kind of Navigation difficulties carefully logged and with the entire process well documented by the men of their time, not our century looking back.

o7

[Archaos]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Latitude aye. Longitude until the end of the 18th century, so so. Once outside the sight of land was by estimation. Hence many logbooks state - "easting" or "westing" as per appropriate estimation of the captain and navigation crew. And if latitude couldn't be measured - Pole Star is nice but not everywhere, especially not in a storm - they added "northing" or "southing".

The Buccaneer Atlas is great with all this kind of Navigation difficulties carefully logged and with the entire process well documented by the men of their time, not our century looking back.

o7

I hope it also explains that a sight of a single body or object only actually gives you a position line and you need multiple position lines to obtain a fix. A noon sight only actually gives you your longitude as it uses the time the sun is at its zenith, to get a noon fix an earlier morning sight is run forward based on time, speed and course to give the fix. So there are still inaccuracies with it depending on how accurate you know your speed and course.

With star sights you get multiple position lines within a few minutes so theoretically they are more accurate for fixing position, but you need an accurate clock which as you say was not really available till late in the 18th century and due to cost they were not in general use till much later. (I do remember as a navigation cadet on the 4-8 watch having a race with the Chief Officer as to who could get the star sight on the chart first, I still have my old notebook where on many days I had pre-worked out what I could for various stars but due to clouds could not actually see the stars. My record to get a fix was about 10 minutes for taking sights of about 5 stars and working out the position lines to get a fix.)

How to find latitude had been known for a long time and was never really a problem for sailors in the period the game is set in unless they went for a very long period without being able to see the sky. But longitude was more tricky and was not really solved till the later part of the 18th century. Till then dead reckoning and estimated position was used till land was sighted and then they had to identify what land they were seeing, hence the many drawings of coastline profiles to help identification.

I know it is off topic but it is interesting and shows that for the time period the game is set in that a vessels position was not always known accurately which is why personally I do not mind them introducing it as a perk and people can make the choice whether to use it or not.

[admin]

1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

If you don't make the Hercules and requin craftable these changes will be hard to test. Why craft a surprise or another shallow ship if you get a Hercules with 18s or requin with crew an sailing profile for free? 

all ships must be able to participate in all activities. in terms of value - why not capture 3-5 suprises for free? You can only use 1 herc in a day. but you can use as many captured ships as you want. 

[staun]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

all ships must be able to participate in all activities. in terms of value - why not capture 3-5 suprises for free? You can only use 1 herc in a day. but you can use as many captured ships as you want. 

Because it just basicly is wrong to limited acces to ships depending on wheather you have paid for it ore not.

The value you get for paying a ship is you save time, the price is you only can redeem on a time interval. I do like you have made it on the amount of LH used. Like less you only can have one in habor, But think it is a fair compromize. But thats just my opinion.

[Marquis de la Fayette]

1 hour ago, admin said:

tous les navires doivent pouvoir participer à toutes les activités. en termes de valeur - pourquoi ne pas capturer 3 à 5 surprises gratuitement? Vous ne pouvez utiliser que 1 herc par jour. mais vous pouvez utiliser autant de navires capturés que vous le souhaitez. 

Bonjour,

Il faut bien reconnaître que cet argument est tout à fait valable, tant que le herc ne sera utilisable qu'une fois par jour.

Cordialement, La Fayette

[Guest]

1 hour ago, admin said:

all ships must be able to participate in all activities. in terms of value - why not capture 3-5 suprises for free? You can only use 1 herc in a day. but you can use as many captured ships as you want. 

carronades vs crewspace, what would win, pick one..

Edited December 12, 2018 by Guest