Patch 29. Sextant, shallow water changes, improvements in the User interface.

[OjK]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Surprise is better than herc and lrq. 

In what precisely?
Herc outruns it by 0,5 kn, out-turn it by 1 point and has 30% more cannon broadside weight.
So again, in which part Surprise is better than Hercules?
Maybe the strong riggi... Wait.. Nope...
 

Having 40 crew more?
 

Oh, it absolutely doesn't matter it has more crew, because Le'Troll has even more, and has 50 boarding prep all the time.

 

This is absolutely a step backward. We're going back to DLC-to-win Shallow PB's? 
Amazing stuff. Now, as mentioned before, organise the first "Conquest" activity across the server on shallow ports, to see which nation has most $$$.

 

Wow... Just wow...

Edited December 11, 2018 by OjK

[Galt]

5 minutes ago, OjK said:

In what precisely?
Herc outruns it by 0,5 kn, out-turn it by 1 point and has 30% more cannon broadside weight.
So again, in which part Surprise is better than Hercules?
Maybe the strong riggi... Wait.. Nope...

Let's go then, you in a herc and me in a surp and we will see what happens. I'm confident that this isn't an actual issue.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

As someone who I assume hasn't participated in an all Requin port battle you might reconsider it once you have.  

My argument for their exclusion is based primarily on the fact that they exist outside the economy.  What I'd really like to see is DLC ships have two modes of redeeming. Redeem them directly to a ship with chosen woods and they show up as 2/4, shabby.  Redeem them instead as a permit for crafting and like any other crafted ship they can turn out 5/5 with refit, etc.

Well I do not need to play shallow water ships on orders to judge them. There are fixes to these issues but excluding ships from port battles was by far the worst design choice ever. The reason they were meta was because requins sailing profile, her crew and the Hercs 18 longs/carro set up. Now that we know the problem we should find a solution to it. Other larger shallow ships are a good move. The surp with a mast mod and carros can fight these ships. I have done it against good players. 

[Capn Rocko]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Surprise is better than herc and lrq. Properly fitted cerberus and renommee are also good against those ships.

Last I checked, LRQ could sail up to a surprise and turn it into the wind

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

Last I checked, LRQ could sail up to a surprise and turn it into the wind

only if you let it....   Le Req can't turn a Prince if you can manual sail and anticipate his move

Edit: and save your sail rep til you REALLY need it.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Vernon Merrill

[OjK]

19 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

The surp with a mast mod and carros can fight these ships. I have done it against good players. 

I'm pretty sure You're talking Hercs here.

How about the Le'Troll (accidentaly the more expensive DLC ship) kiting You around the circle?

I'd love to have more options in PB, and the light frigates are cool.
And even if Surprise can be some of reply to Hercules, what is the reply to Le'Troll?

As long there is no free equivalent to equal fight against Le'Troll - this is just a bad idea.
And what is right now the best option with similar sailing profile? Prince, with half of the armanent and half of the crew? Really?

21 minutes ago, Galt said:

Let's go then, you in a herc and me in a surp and we will see what happens. I'm confident that this isn't an actual issue.

No it's not. What I really meant is in the part You didn't quote. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Hercules has now some free alternative (as long they dont hello kitty up the BR values for Surp/Herc)
If You take out the variable of skill, Hercules IS better ship in every single statistic. The difference might not be big, but still, a paid ship is better then the free one.

But Le'Troll still doesn't have ANYTHING to reply with. So allowing DLC's ship again to PB's is back again P2W in simplest form.

 

By the way. I'd really hope to hear a reason, why Le'Troll DLC is more expensive than Hercules.
That's interesting, isn't it?

Edited December 11, 2018 by OjK

[Njord]

3 hours ago, Wyy said:

this is why I think the game needs certain levels of shallow, so some 6th and even 7nd rates would be prefered

@admin I also thought about this and it would be the best solution but I don't know how much dev time this would demand. Would the OW map have to be changed for this? Would be nice to have this some time in the future, as it would allow for much better balancing.

[HachiRoku]

21 minutes ago, OjK said:

How about the Le'Troll (accidentaly the more expensive DLC ship) kiting You around the circle?

That is bad design of port battles. Not the ships fault. I have said a million times that circles are BS. You have to think about it. If a players objective in a compeditve pvp game is to survive and just run there is something wrong. 1 cirvle would make things better. Not perfect but better. The whole battlefield conquest mode just doesn't work. Not to mention in battle field the conquest zones are about a 10m radious maybe? That means you can fire and kill and enemy from one side to another and even from 1000m outside the circle. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by HachiRoku

[JDAM]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Sextant perk

• 2 points (price might change) perk will allow to determine your position at sea

 

Why does it have to be a perk?  Why is it not "just is" for everyone?  Still worse than ded-reckoning/triangulation cause it's literally GPS on the map, but better than zero navigation.  Is there any user input in to the sextant at all?  Angles, degrees, anything I can touch or do at all?  Or do I just click on the button and open the map to find a cross or a mark?

[OjK]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

That is bad design of port battles. Not the ships fault. I have said a million times that circles are BS. You have to think about it. If a players objective in a compeditve pvp game is to survive and just run there is something wrong. 1 cirvle would make things better. Not perfect but better. The whole battlefield conquest mode just doesn't work. Not to mention in battle field the conquest zones are about a 10m radious maybe? That means you can fire and kill and enemy from one side to another and even from 1000m outside the circle. 

So don't make more errors, before we fix the old ones!

I'd opt in for one circle. But I honestly don't expect it anytime soon, so I don't want to see P2W anywhere around.

Especially not, if they announced that Conquest missions will be basically "All server attacks here!!!".
Can't work well with Shallows, and Le Requin kiting around with no real danger other than that someone else bought more of them.

[HachiRoku]

24 minutes ago, OjK said:

As long there is no free equivalent to equal fight against Le'Troll

there is. Nerf pirate rig and the ships close hauled speed if thats not enough. 

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, OjK said:

So don't make more errors, before we fix the old ones!

I'd opt in for one circle. But I honestly don't expect it anytime soon, so I don't want to see P2W anywhere around.

Especially not, if they announced that Conquest missions will be basically "All server attacks here!!!".
Can't work well with Shallows, and Le Requin kiting around with no real danger other than that someone else bought more of them.

the community made their choice. They ask for DLC they get it. I wouldn't refuse to take your money. Who in their right mind makes a topic asking for dlc in an alpha game. 

[HachiRoku]

5 minutes ago, OjK said:

So don't make more errors, before we fix the old ones!

you cannot fix something unless you think its broken. Apparently some people think port battles are working well. I don't and never did. All they are is a race against a timer to chase down and kill as many ships as possible. Out of the 50 port battles I played since the new system I probably ended up in a game of catch in 45 of them. 

[OjK]

8 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Nerf pirate rig and the ships close hauled speed if thats not enough. 

And You really expect those nerfs to happen?

I'm almost sure there will be plenty of broken PB's before (if ever) it will.

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

I'd challenge you to point to a thread where the "community" was beating down the dev's doors for DLC, on-demand, redeemable ships? Where was this discussed?

Maybe there were asks for paints, cosmetics, etc. but I'm pretty sure that DLC redeemable ships were not a community request and if they were a suggestion it was not a majority of players. 🤔

admiralty dlc for example. Was asked for and release a month later. Also. Paying for a product is also proof the community is ok with it. Let me ask you and @OjK something... Do you own the requin dlc?

[HachiRoku]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

DLC redeemable ships

very much so. Many plays asked for this and some even want every ship to be released as dlc on steam. 

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Wraith said:

And of course I own the ships, because why not?

I would love to buy the herc tomorrow. I won't. The fact that those ships are redeemable as ships and not permits is against everything RVR stands for. Don't buy a product you think is not implemented correctly and complain about them. Do not ask for a product someone else might have to work their ass of to be locked out of port battles. Certain players love those ships for what they are and not because their stats. No matter how op or nerfed the trinco was I love her. I love that ship so much and there are players that love the herc and requin. Those players cannot be punished because of broken mechanics. 

My simple stance on DLC ships. 

1st. They must be able to take part in 100% of the games combat not matter how much I hate the requin. I will refuse to pay for content that is not allowed in battles. 

2nd They must be permits and made craftable. As long as they break economy I will also not buy.  

[HachiRoku]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

My point was, these were not community requested.

There was. Read through the forums. People have asked for DLC many times. Don't nitpick about the exact contents of their demands. Ships were also requested and still are. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

Certain players love those ships for what they are and not because their stats.

Sums it up for a lot players, for a lot of cases. +1

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

We are testers of an Early Access product, why shouldn't I provide feedback on all of the things we should be testing, including how DLC fits into the game once it was introduced? 

No we are NOT. We were not testers since we payed money for the game. We are customers of a product. Testers get payed to play a game and we pay to play a game. We are the exact opposite of testers by definition. It doesn't matter what steam says, what gamelabs say or the game industry in general. 

[greybuscat]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

Don't buy a product you think is not implemented correctly and complain about them.

That's great and all, but you don't get to dictate who is allowed to express an opinion. One could even make the argument that people who have actually paid for DLC should have more say than people who are holding out over philosophical disagreements about how DLC is structured, but discussion work better when everyone has a seat at the table.

Isn't the point of this thread to discuss the merits of ideas, and not the credentials of the people suggesting them?

15 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Do not ask for a product someone else might have to work their ass of to be locked out of port battles. Certain players love those ships for what they are and not because their stats.

I think said players should speak for themselves.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

7 hours ago, admin said:

Sextant perk

• 2 points (price might change) perk will allow to determine your position at sea

 

What if there's a storm at the time the position would be taken ( noon ) ?

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, greybuscat said:

That's great and all, but you don't get to dictate who is allowed to express an opinion. One could even make the argument that people who have actually paid for DLC should have more say than people who are holding out over philosophical disagreements about how DLC is structured, but discussion work better when everyone has a seat at the table.

Isn't the point of this thread to discuss the merits of ideas, and not the credentials of the people suggesting them?

Yes about game design. We discuss it. We can argue all day long about how mechanics work and do not work. I can be wrong you can be wrong. How the DLC was implemented is FACTUALLY a design flaw. 

None craftable ships being able to play in a game that is intended to have an economy is badly designed. You have no argument other than convenience for the DLC structure. That is not an argument.

What is your argument that I know less about the DLC structure because I don't own them? 

When did I dictate who is allowed to have an opinion? 

[HachiRoku]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

LOL, well, if I'm a real customer and not an Early Access tester, then why am I not always right?!

hehe, for once I have nothing to say :p 

[HachiRoku]

16 minutes ago, greybuscat said:

I think said players should speak for themselves.

Well I think paying customers should get what they payed for. That is 100% game content. PERIOD

EDIT: By that I mean as paying customers for DLC. DLC ban from Port battles is unacceptable! 

Edited December 11, 2018 by HachiRoku