Would you like to test the "Flag hostility mechanic" again ?

[Celtiberofrog]

The Poll feature does not seem to work properly for me, I can't edit any...

So could someone make a Poll to ask simple question:

 

Would you like to test the "Flag hostility mechanic" again ?

YES

NO

I DO NOT CARE

 

This hypothesis is proposed while Dev's said they will soon upgrade the RVR systems.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yes. With no timers, ports can be attacked multiple times per day, always open.

With Flags being able to be pulled only from Naval Bases or Shroud Cay ( have clan choose which nation port is the Naval Base, all clans can create in flag in Shroud )

Flag must be crafted ( note - search for 18th century invasion fleet logistics lists as reference ) and not merely bought.

Let's rock'n'roll.

[Celtiberofrog]

19 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Yes. With no timers, ports can be attacked multiple times per day, always open.

Damned ! you going quite far

yet hostility systems up to now have been wearing out RVR players...

Flag system had this advantage to create content easily, which was keeping player base quite active.

Now, "no timers" and "multiple times per day" ! these are features to be settled adequately, kind of tricky I admit. 

but should not it be possible to test something within Flag system spirit ?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Celtiberofrog said:

The Poll feature does not seem to work properly for me, I can't edit any...

So could someone make a Poll to ask simple question:

 

Would you like to test the "Flag hostility mechanic" again ?

YES

NO

I DO NOT CARE

 

This hypothesis is proposed while Dev's said they will soon upgrade the RVR systems.

i would love to try it, but think you should make a poll in the thread for easier overview

[Celtiberofrog]

 

17 minutes ago, Wyy said:

i would love to try it, but think you should make a poll in the thread for easier overview

yep, my apology but poll does not work for me or i'm enough ignorant not to succeed in doing it.

So that's why I asked for someone to create it.

[LeBoiteux]

-

Edited December 7, 2018 by LeBoiteux

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Merged

 

 

[JDAM]

Hostility as it stands now is fine.  It is very easy to flip a port, you simply need to learn the mechanics... 

To create enough hostility you have to sink 40 ships of the same rate as the port.  So 40 6th rates, 40 4th rates, ect.  Obviously sinking 40 6th rates or 40 4th rates in the equivelent rates is extremely hard, you almost always will not complete hostility before being intercepted.  So you need to do it much quicker than this.  In order to do so, you need to bring larger ships than the required rate to complete hostility in a reasonable time.  Que the 2nd and 1st rates...

For example on a 6th rate port, a division/light squadron of 4-6 1st rates will produce 50+% of hostility in one battle... so that means in just 2 quick battles the PB is set and you're off to the races...

4th rate ports take a little more, but still super easy, 1 battle will be around 35% with the same numbers, so about 3 battles (reallly 2.5 worth of ships) you have flipped the port and off to the races...

1st rate ports will take a little more grind because again its 40 1st rates, no shortcut on that, you're going to have to grind it out, but you should get it in 4-5 battles with a full squadron of 10 1st rates...

So as you can see hostility is not difficult at all, what it does require however is some preparation, its not meant for the unorganized and light fleet, or for any Tom, Dick and Harry to just flip ports willy nilly.  It is meant for clans who can actually get the naval power to create enough % points to push the port over the top.  Planning is key and building a large enough fleet to do the job.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Hemp Amore

[JDAM]

7 minutes ago, Rickard said:

this would work I think, the conquest mechanic currently in the game can stay, but the flag system could indeed be implemented for raids WHICH WERE PROMISED AS CONTENT! some time ago.

this way the flag system will be back and generate quick conquest action and extra content is added to the game which we badly need.

@Hemp Amore what do you think about this compromise?

That's not too bad, I kind of like the idea... crafted flag (rarer mats), raises 80% allowing the tax/doubloon siphon with the option of raising the last 20%...

But I think the initial hostility should be reduced to 50% so that it gives the responding clan a chance to respond in the event the attacking clan plans more than a mere raid and actual PB...  80% is really really close to the goal, imho...  at 50% it would leave 2 battles left to work with depending on BR of the port...

[JDAM]

1 minute ago, Rickard said:

well isn't the concept of a "raid" to attack the port just like a port battle but instead of capturing the city/port just capture lots of supplies, materials and gold and then run away? 

I think so yes, but what is to stop the clan once the get in the AO and at 80% collecting mats/money, say to themselves, "well its already at 80% you guys wanna just flip it?"  I can already hear it in discord lol....

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

unannounced and quick pb with 300 players online mean empty or pve battles = boring at the max !

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

23 minutes ago, Rickard said:

unannounced and quick "RAID", the clue is in the name.

"Raid" != "Port Battle";

Sacking of enemy ports. Burn their ships, loot their warehouse, burn their structures. Raze the town !

[LeBoiteux]

12 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Sacking of enemy ports. Burn their ships, loot their warehouse, burn their structures. Raze the town !

How cruel ! 😢

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, LeBoiteux said:

How cruel ! 😢

Yeah... that's what i think of when i read RAIDS !!!! ... 

[JDAM]

51 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Sacking of enemy ports. Burn their ships, loot their warehouse, burn their structures. Raze the town !

The attacked clan needs to be able to counter the raid in some way shape or form.  There has to be a mechanic to make a raid unsuccessful, just cause they get the flag there, that doesn't make sense that the owning nation couldn't defend against the raid or undo the effects of it.  A rally mechanic I guess where the defending nation can go undo the preset hostility until it falls below a certain point and the raid is repelled.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

9 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

The attacked clan needs to be able to counter the raid in some way shape or form.

Of course ! As soon as the flag is crafted in one of the Naval Bases ? No idea   but that's how it worked back then, flag was pulled and a warning pop up on screen !

[Tac]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Of course ! As soon as the flag is crafted in one of the Naval Bases ? No idea   but that's how it worked back then, flag was pulled and a warning pop up on screen !

Unless we can come up with a working way to make a flag comeback like only produce a flag in ports with a very high BR? Not sure Regional capitals would work or from only a nation capitals either but the distance must be a certain amount to give defenders a chance.

Also the dreaded false flag Solution was never found.

[Sir Loorkon]

I wounder if we would be able to test any RvR mechanism properly at the moment. We have a very low playerbase and RvR seems pointless. I also wounder if the flag system would work with the united server. The playerbase at night (european timezone) seems to be very low, but it might get problematic with „nightflags“. All after all a difficult if not impossible situation.

[Celtiberofrog]

6 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Amazing to see how people asks for broken systems. And getting even support.

No wonder why NA is going downhill.

Alejandro,

Is it worthless to debate about hostility mechanics ? mostly when RVR is supposed to be reformed !!

 

What we know is a fair amount of players like RVR, we remember the Sweds main clans finaly stopped any RVR but just waited (prayed) for players to attack their port.

It was clearly said they were completely bored with grinding system.

A good RVR system is going to be one of the key for NA war server success,

so I guess it's not a matter of broken system, but rather a matter of testing a new or similar flag system within actual NA improvements.

Anything that could keep player interest on long run, should be discussed.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Correct and agreed on the flag exploitation and the "empty ports"; nothing to steal, win, loot, etc.

What would be the appropriate rewards in a wargame where you won and defeated your opponents even if you sink no ships of theirs?

 

[vazco]

Flag system was broken. It won't work with more population - false flags will generate a lot of waiting.

For low population it's actually ok - it will just generate a lot of empty battles. I guess it's better than no port battles at all.

Edited December 7, 2018 by vazco

[Sir Loorkon]

58 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Isn't that what timers are for?

You are right. So there will be timed empty battles...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Not dubloons, resources similar to victualling a invasion fleet. That way high BR ports flags cost more than others.

[Slim McSauce]

Bring it back, bring it back and do it exactly how you feel is best @admin

Then we can see how good you are at developing, because in 2 months all the holes begin to appear and if you're unwilling to patch them as they come then you better build a damn sturdy boat from the get-go.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Celtiberofrog]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

My solution is not bringing back a proven bad system that is so hard to get it right, to balance it.

A proven bad system ? the only point that is good to look at is : why this system kept active a large population of player ? we never ever witnessed since then the same population level. 

A bad system that had such effect surely deserves to be re-explored, certainly with added improvements.

The war supply system was abandoned, the grinding system shows that player get tired of it.

By the time of Flags, the rewards were kind of secondary. Fun was the main reward !!

Risky to lose ships ? this is just because peeps are keeping safe their war ships for ages since now it's harder to craft them. Will it be the same for ever ? no. A wipe can resolve this reluctancy. If every body would start from zero (like after release) then PB's would be filled with low classes and "standard" ships with no fear (or less) to lose them.  

Empty ports ? if flag system would depend on certain mechanisms/conditions, we could surely avoid this type of occurances.

Hard to get it right or to balance it ? well that's why we are here, try to brainstorm together, bring ideas and give feedback of past played systems.

 

Anyway, the sample of YES in this poll (thank you to the one who made it correctly) shows that a new hostility system based on easier mechanism is attractive. Or do you deny that too ?