Battles closing under watch

[Slim McSauce]

Battles shouldn't close on you if you have them selected. It's unfair that you already have to track them down in 2 minutes, you have to be in range as well. If I've spotted the battle on OW I should have it's location to join, along with anybody else who spotted it before it closed. No more battles closing right in your face as you approach.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Coraline Vodka said:

Timers are fair for all sorry you didn't time something right

Timers are fair, having found the battle within time only to have it close before you get within gun range is not. For all purposes you found and marked the location of the battle in time, you should be able to join.

[Sir Loorkon]

The short timer stops disconnected ships (trap) from joining or players waiting in port from joining. That is good. It would have been better to extend the time of the „not able to join timer“ to 4 minutes for connecting ships or ships leaving a habour.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Sir Loorkon

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, Sir Loorkon said:

The short timer stops disconnected ships (trap) from joining or players waiting in port from joining. That is good. It would have been better to extend the time of the „not able to join timer“ to 4 minutes for connecting ships or ships leaving a habour.

Timers should have gone up but I would take this over a 4 minute timer, it's just silly that battles magically vanish from your sight.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Coraline Vodka said:

There is a lot of magic in NA 

order and chaos, it's best to remove as much chaos magic from NA as possible. This suggestion makes sense if you'd just look at it.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[z4ys]

52 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Timers should have gone up but I would take this over a 4 minute timer, it's just silly that battles magically vanish from your sight.

Your 10sec NA sail covers hundreds of miles Ofc you would be to late to that kind of battle in rl. There is no magic involved.

A Grp that stays together fights together like it would happen in rl. That's the whole sense of splitting targets and take them on 1 by 1. It's even a good thing for duel loving players.

[King of Crowns]

not that I care because game is dead until launch..... but the best solution is dynamic circles. so when the battle pulls the circles are close to the X. as time goes on the circles move farther and farther away. to the point that no one would ever try to join it because you would have to sail 1 1/2 hour to get to the battle. then the battle could never close. but at least you could watch the other two fight. which is currently more action than most action in naval action. 

[King of Crowns]

and then do we even discuss the magic of safe zones and their retard join circles.

RIP NA. 

#keepthenewbssafe. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Solution is to make timespace 1:1

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Wraith said:

This would probably work in the game's current population numbers. Just restrict the game world down to Hispaniola and give each nation a permanent port, open the battle instance, and press go.  

That small ? For you probably. Not for me. Want a world to enjoy. With the imminent danger.

[Vernon Merrill]

This is why the 2 circle, Insta-close giant pull circle was the best ROE we had to date.....

WYSIWYG

No constant tweaking of join timers...

Want to be in battles with your friends?  Well then you had better sail as a squadron.

(I would also insta-remove the crossed swords.  BOOM.  90% of revenge fleet issues solved)

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

What does sailing together in a area that is similar to a tag circle has anything to do with ships speeds ?

Timer must always equal timeout to enter a battle exiting from port, exiting from another battle, logging in, etc.

It can be 2 minutes or 30 minutes. Makes no difference as long as the timeouts are the same. We have to be sailing, not sitting in port nor sitting inside a battle.

We went through this all and is totally the best of both worlds.

[jodgi]

10 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Battles shouldn't close on you if you have them selected. It's unfair that you already have to track them down in 2 minutes

Allow me to be non-combative but testy with you...

I understand the frustration of coming up on closed battles. You want to fight or help your nation or friends, it's commendable.

But by beating upwind in a slow ship and still being able to join any selected battle allows you to cheat on a carefully planned OW attack. You can see it, sure, but in a 1:1 time world you would've arrived well after the fight was concluded. That's not fair to the guys playing it smart. You would get a science fiction teleport into the fight.

Consider your frustration towards closed battles you were too far from against the sensible OW/instance time and space break compromise that 2 min timers provide. Think of the wargamers, the "playing it smart" dudes and the careful OW hunters.

Do you want smart OW play or do you prefer patrol zone-like arena mechanics?

I'm not teasing, I'm dead serious.

___________________

I've forgotten @Vernon Merrill, what kind of whining made insta close RoE go bye-bye?

 

[Cecil Selous]

Reintroduction of 2 circle insta close mechanic (I also think this was the best yet) and after the crossed swords appear, players who didn't get pulled in but can see the swords have 20 (30 or 10?) seconds to reserve a spot to join within the next minute. After that it's closed for ever and the swords instantly disappear. If they should join at the edge of the large circle or we keep the 2 opposite join zones  or introduce some totally different join zones is debatable. 

This way players, who see a battle starting but didn't get pulled aren't frustrated because they still have a chance to join. The reserve time is to prevent hiding outside drawing range to gank. Thus it has to be very short. And the minute they have to join should be enough to prevent sailing to the opposite site of the circle to cut off the enemy (if the large join circle is the way to go). Everybody else outside a certain range can't join and don't see or know that there is a battle at all.

Or simply make the large circle even larger

But after all I am also quite satisfied with the current 2? minute timer (they ninja changed that right?)

[Vernon Merrill]

24 minutes ago, jodgi said:

 

___________________

I've forgotten @Vernon Merrill, what kind of whining made insta close RoE go bye-bye?

 

Welllllllll..... for the record, the term "whining" is yours, not mine (in this case).....

But if I remember correctly it was the "everyone is gonna have to sail the same ship to stay together" argument.  But as you and @Wraith correctly points out,  MY preferred play style is that of OW hunter where I prefer to know exactly WHAT i'm engaging.  When you sail a ship that melts if you make more that a mistake or two, it's very beneficial.

I can't tell you how many times i've entered battle and chased a somewhat-even foe back to a Bellona that joined downwind at 1:28:00.  

Again, just MY preference.

[William Death]

10 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

not that I care because game is dead until launch..... but the best solution is dynamic circles. so when the battle pulls the circles are close to the X. as time goes on the circles move farther and farther away. to the point that no one would ever try to join it because you would have to sail 1 1/2 hour to get to the battle. then the battle could never close. but at least you could watch the other two fight. which is currently more action than most action in naval action. 

This....this is great.

I'm a fan of "what you see is what you get," which means whatever you tag and whatever is immediately nearby is what you get to fight. But, I also recognized that when I'm sailing with a large group, all it takes is one ship to be slightly off course and he won't make it into the battle that started literally right next to him. And thats not fair to that player.

Your suggested mechanic would still let that player get into the fight, but his punishment for being off-course is that he won't make it into the actual fighting inside for a bit of time. And anyone sailing more than a horizon away would simply end up joining so far back that they don't even get to fire a shot in the fight.

I like it. 

+1

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

But if I remember correctly it was the "everyone is gonna have to sail the same ship to stay together" argument.

I've thought about it. Big circle made it hard to not get bots inside the pull. I might've whined about that, I can get downright pissy about the PvP-griefing bots.

[Slim McSauce]

Simply put this makes more sense that once you spot a battle it doesn't disappear from a logical point of view

aside from that it allows for more pvp=automatic yes

[jodgi]

11 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Simply put this makes more sense that once you spot a battle it doesn't disappear from a logical point of view

This post is from the first major forum campaign to get timers that would enable smart OW PvP hunting. It's a short and good read with pictures an all. RAKERS and TDA were "bitter" enemies at the time but we stood together on this point along with most prominent players and forumites.

@Prater's (Oh, brother! Where art thou?) illustrations and examples indicates that even if you see something in OW (like crossed swords) you can still be days away depending on ship and wind. So,

I challenge your idea of "I can see so I should be able to enter" and how logical that is.

Allow me to suggest that what you're experiencing is related to emotions and not logic. It's the same for everyone; OW time-warp leads us on and let's us down when logic (2 min wysiwyg timer compromise) denies us the fight. It happens to me too and even I get involuntarily frustrated.

12 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

aside from that it allows for more pvp=automatic yes

This is my weak point as I'm often tempted to ditch sensible OW mechanics in order to shoot at ships. However, since 2015 we've argued that (best compromise) wysiwyg OW mechanics will attract and retain the type of player that OW is made for. I'm a Legends and patrol zone guy so I sin against the true OW experience, but I hope I can atone by fighting alongside true OW players to save the Open World from devolving into one big king-of-the-hill patrol zone.

If you're available for open ended conversation; I'm willing to test crossed swords visibility, measure distance, calculate OW time vs. instance time factoring in good wind and bad wind.

Are you a true OW champion or are you corruptible, like me?

[AeRoTR]

Just an idea;

OW battle know closes in 2 minutes. Let it stay open for 10 minutes example !

Until 2 minutes you will be joining just like now,

BUT after 2 minutes you spawn at much longer distance from center of gravity of the battle. 

2 to 10 minutes will make you sail 6 to 30 minutes from center of battle, time to join x 3 = your sailing time to combat. So your choice.

3 minutes later join ——— 9 minutes sailing in battle instance

5 minutes ——— 15 min. sailing in instance

10 min. ——— 30 min. sailing in instance

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

What stops me from staying inside port, not sailing, or springing a ambush from inside a battle, hiding, with those 10 minutes ? Unless the join timeout is 10 minutes and 1 second, that is.

Make it 2, 5, 10, 30, 90. In the end all the same. Either are sailing and there  or you ain't ( f11 coords removed, the gods willing )