Flags, Flags, Flags - 2 - Flag proposals only

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1717 - Cape Matapan

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Punta Collares naval battle

Liberal Wars in Portugal gave way to the defacto independence of the Brasil territories. The naval flag and jack below are from 1822 - 1831

Ensign

Jack

[Angus MacDuff]

The Scottish Royal Flag.  I'd switch to Brit for this.  Its far too English there at the moment. (and no, that's not the Scottish flag under my name...It's Ogo Pogo, a sea monster in Lake Okanagan.)

Edited December 3, 2018 by Angus MacDuff

[Thonys]

double[ stateflag ][ prince flag (6 stripes)]  ( common)

 

The Double state flag with one white stripe added. (7 stripes) (rare)

 

The Triple state flag with two white stripes added. (11 stripes) (rare)

 

 in the 17th century, there was frequent use of a double-tricolor version of the Dutch flag.  In a picture of the Dutch East India Company Return Fleet in Batavia, triple tricolors are worn by some of the vessels.  In addition, there were double tricolors separated by white stripes, sometimes of the same width as the others, sometimes a good deal wider.  This appears to be a flag of similar type.  In the same way, the Dutch jack of triangles was seen in many variants.  It appears that as long as the three colors were shown and there was a clear impression of the design, no one bothered much about specific numbers of stripes or arrangement
of triangles. 

cource:  https://fotw.info/flags/nl_prvlg.html#9v

Edited March 2, 2020 by Thonys

[Thonys]

 US  Nation (rare) 1825

 (rare)

 

Unofficial Flag Used Until 1825-1915

 image by Mark Sensen, 21 July 2001

The seal of the city of New York, adopted in an earlier form in 1686, bears the legend SIGILLUM CIVITATIS NOVI EBORACI which means simply “The Seal of the City of New York”: Eboracum was the Roman name for York, the titular seat of James II as Duke of York.

(before 1915 an unofficial flag was in use: a white field with the seal of that time)

In September 1609 Henry Hudson, commander of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) ship Halve Maen (Half Moon) discovered Manhattan. The VOC however was not interested, although in the next years still some voyages were made by Dutch skippers. In 1614 exclusive privileges were given to the United New Netherland Company. In 1915 Fort Nassau was build near modern Albany, but the company was dissolved in 1618. In 1621 the newly-organized Dutch West India Company (GWC) was given an octroi by the Dutch Estates General for the monopoly of America and the west coast of Africa. Most attractive was the trade in beaver skins, and a beaver was the main feature on the New Netherland provincial seal. In 1625 Director-General Pieter Minuit bought the island of Manhattan from the Indians and built there Fort Amsterdam and laid the foundations of New Amsterdam which became the capital of New Netherland and the other Dutch Colonies in the Americas.

King Charles II of Great Britain disregarded the rights of the Dutch over New Netherland and granted it in 1664 to his brother James, Duke of York and Albany. The latter as Lord High Admiral of England set up an expedition. Because the defense of the colony was very weak, Director-General Peter Stuyvesant had to surrender on 29 August/8 September **. The very same day both the province and the city were renamed New York in honor of their new ruler. However Dutch form of government by Schout, Burgomasters and Schepens was continued, until English style mayor and aldermen were installed on 14/24 June ** 1665. With the Peace of Breda in 1667 the Dutch recognized their lost definitive, but in return got Suriname.
 

The New York City Flag from c.1825 to 1915 is unofficially described as being the New York City Seal in blue on white. However there is an American habit to be less than accurate when describing such things. In this case when they say "Seal" they really mean the Coat of Arms. The proof of this is in three places. In an 1825 print of the opening of the Erie Canal, the flag is shown on a ship in a wood cut illustration as being the arms on a plain field. In a lithograph regarding Abraham Lincoln's death in 1865, the flag is shown as white with the arms in the center and a black mourning border. The best proof is the Annin & Co. Catalog (I have seen several from 1905 to 1912) which shows the arms (as illustrated here) on white and states the flag can have the "seal" in blue or in its proper colors. NAVA published this information in American City Flags. 
Dave Martucci, 4 July 2010

John B. Pine's 1915 book on the flag and seal (op. cit., page 82), says: "Up to the present time the City of New York has never possessed an official flag in any true sense of the term. The flag which has been displayed on the City Hall, consisting of a white field bearing the seal of the City, was never formally adopted by the City authorities…"

Two points in this statement are worthy of comment. First, Pine notes that no flag before 1915 was official, although one was apparently in use for a number of years, since the aldermen from time to time provided funds for the flag's replacement. There is no definite information as to what its proportions may have been or who may have designed it. Second, Pine speaks of "a white field bearing the seal of the City," but no illustration of a flag with the seal rather than the arms is available. Dr. Whitney Smith of the Flag Research Center believes that "seal" is used here to mean "arms," an understandable allusion since the seal's primary element is the city's arms, and those illustrations that do survive of previous city flags lend support to Dr. Smith's opinion.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Thonys

[Thonys]

 

 VP Admiralty  of Zeeland    ( Middelburg )  (one of the independent admirality s ) :    Zeeland ( Rare)

Admiralty's existed from 1572 - 1795-  till the beginning of the~ Bataafsche Republic  Napoleonic era it became one marine department

 

the other Admiralitys are (You can see them as independent clans) more about this subject: https://advanderzee.com/2014/04/01/de-admiraliteit-van-rotterdam/

1. De Maze : (Rotterdam)
2. Amsterdam
3. Friesland : (Dokkum, after 1645 Harlingen)
4. Zeeland (Middelburg)   
5. Noorderkwartier: (Hoorn en Enkhuizen) 
6.  There was also the  : admiraliteitsraad - admirality board te Vlissingen. 

 

 

Luctor et Emergo        (crest wappen spell expression)   (ik worstel en kom boven / Voorwaarts  met de strijd )

Admiraliteit  Zeeland   /   Admiralty Zeeland 

 

on page 18 https://issuu.com/nldverenigingvoorvlaggenkunde/docs/_vlag_17      

at the port of Willemstad

https://johnnyvanhaeften.com/news-publications/artists/bonaventura-peeters/shipping-in-choppy-seas-off-willemstad (NL)

 ( possibly city Sluis front mast ) and Admirality flag  Zeeland on the stern - top mast ship of state -  nation flag

 

 

left ship(  all to the left at the stern)

look at Middelburg (city)

Bonaventura Peeters I
Dutch	Gezicht op Middelburg

it not strange that the painter always saw this flag he lived in the northern part of what is called now Belgie (Belgium) and in that part the admiralty of Zeeland was dominant .

 storm at sea

 

 

 

1.Admiraliteit van de Maze (Admiralty of the Maze)

      Admiraliteit van de Maze (Rotterdam)

 

 

Admiralty of Amsterdam  (white squadron and red squadron) 

 Amsterdamse Admiraliteit  

Two ship flags of the Amsterdam Admiralty are known: a red and a white ship's flag. They should, according to English example, be conducted by the white and red squadron of the Amsterdam Admiralty. A blue flag is not known. The flags are depicted on a flag map from the end of the 18th century that represents the trophies of the Van Braam squadron in the Indian Archipelago in 1794 (pict.). In the head of this flag card are the flags of the Amsterdam Admiralty. They consist of respectively a red and a white cloth, hemmed on the top and bottom with a red-white-blue strip. In the middle is the weapon of the Committed Councils as described above. There under a blue ribbon, presumably with the words PUGNO PRO PATRIA in gold letters. 

 example  of the detail

 

 

  @admin West Friesland  (the flagpole is on the left side of the flag-

West  Friesland

found on chart van Keulen first picture third row.

page 14

and also 

https://www.rubylane.com/item/1415055-f174/Very-18th-Century-Table-all-shipx27s   

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 states general flag early flag

Generaliteitsvlag

 by Jarig Bakker, 8 Jun 2005, after Hesman's Flaggeboek (1708).states general flag

 

 @admin   reproduced by me  for internet/ game quality ; free of use 

 red flag :   (dutch )  Staten Generaal 

(english)  (states general)

 

 

generaliteitsvlag

 by Jarig Bakker, 8 Jun 2005, after Hesman's Flaggeboek (1708).states general flag

generaliteits flag 

https://fotw.info/flags/nl_sg.html#sg

 

text https://books.google.nl/books?id=McMTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA88&dq=muller+vlag&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=McvsUu6rAYO50QXpu4HQCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=muller vlag&f=true

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Thonys

[z4ys]

Hamburg around 1680

[LeBoiteux]

On 11/29/2018 at 12:22 PM, admin said:

Old proposals in this topic are taken into account too

PS : I mentioned the Snake ensign in Flag, Flag, Flag 1 as a naval flag used by French traders in Martinique. Those traders being mainly slave traders, I think it wouldn't be wise to implement it in NA. 

[Thonys]

VP

rare flag 

 

Enkhuizen (1711) (flag chart)

http://www.ronalddejager.nl/vlootschouw-enkhuizen/?_gallery=gg-27-676  oldest known painting

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VOC  (Trading Compagnie from the east to the west)

 Amsterdam  (   right one already in the game)

 

Rare (very)

 by Mark Sensen,  Enkhuizen

-

 Hoorn

-

 Middelburg zeeland

-

 Hoorn

-

 Delft

 

 

 

-

common

blood flag no mercy (Dutch)[perhaps it needs puffy sleeves] (bleu ) 

Lieve Pietersz Verschuier, Dutch ships bomb Tripoli in a punitive expedition against the Barbary pirates, 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Thonys

[Sparkydog]

On behalf of the US, we would respectfully request the Gadsden flag for our navy.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 hour ago, Sparkydog said:

On behalf of the US, we would respectfully request the Gadsden flag for our navy.

Please post the flag and paintings of it being used if possible  Thanks a ton.

[Angus MacDuff]

Lets get that Lion rampant up on the Brit Nation...

[Vernon Merrill]

2 hours ago, Sparkydog said:

On behalf of the US, we would respectfully request the Gadsden flag for our navy.

The first US navy jack is the Naval version of that....  Its in the DLC

 

[z4ys]

Flag of Kurfürstentum Brandenburg 1695 + Kurbrandenbrugische fleet under full flags. Painted 1684 by Lieve Pietersz Verschuier

 

 

Iron Cross used on prussian warships around 1816

 

 

How to hoist colors on prussian warships under Admiral Prinz Adalberts

 

Prussian yacht 1704 but painted 1904 by Willy Stöwer

 

Source: Deutsche Flaggen - Edition Maritim by Jörg- M. Hormann

Edited December 7, 2018 by z4ys

[Sparkydog]

Esek Hopkins was the commander-in-chief of the US Navy in 1775.   The flag that Hopkins used as his personal standard on his flagship the Alfred, is the one we would now recognize. It's likely that John Paul Jones, as the first lieutenant on the Alfred, ran it up the gaff.

[LeBoiteux]

^I don't know whether or not this book can help for US flags.

[Sparkydog]

Wow- very interesting book sir. Thank you for linking it here.  In a cursory examination it does mention that the Gadsden flag was the personal standard of the commodore  and was flown from the Alfred on the maintopmast head.  So while I can not yet find evidence of it being flown as the ensign - it was definitely flown on a US warship.

 

 

 

 

[Njord]

 

Coat of arms of the Teutonic Order, Kingdom of Prussia

Source

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sovereign

[Anolytic]

I would really like to see the "hanging" St Andrew's Cross from 1710 in the game. As seen here on the Poltava:

Quote

В 1710—1712 гг. на белом флаге андреевский крест из крыжа переносится на середину полотнища, причем крестовины не доходили ни до углов, ни до краев полотнища, образуя, таким образом, так называемый «висящий» андреевский крест (табл. I, рис. 33). Такой флаг мы видим на гравюре Пикара, изображающей 54-пушечный корабль «Полтава», спущенный в 1712 г. (рис. 14). Этот рисунок флага был переходящим и получил свое завершение во флаге, в котором крестовины доходят до углов, полотнища, т. е. идут по диагоналям (табл. I, рис. 34; табл. 11, рис. 12). Очевидно, тогда же изменился и рисунок белого галерного флага, в котором андреевский крест из крыжа был перенесен на все полотнище флага (табл. I, рис. 43). Флаг этого рисунка с петровских времен победоносно развивался на многих морях и океанах; под этим флагом сражались многие славные русские адмиралы, и назывался он «андреевским флагом». 

Source: https://flot.com/publications/books/shelf/flag/3.htm

Also, I haven't seen this exact flag in any sources yet:

But I really hope we will see in-game the naval jack where the St Andrew's Cross is thicker and in blue:

[Anolytic]

I've come across more sources on historical Russian flags, not that I can make much sense of them since I don't read a word of Russian unfortunately.

The three last flags here should all make it into the DLC someday.

   

 

   

 The middle flag here for some reason has both the Russian tricolor and the Jerusalem flag. Another cut:

 

      

  This is from a book: https://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008918049

I did now find several sources showing the Russian Galley flag from the DLC, which I thought I hadn't seen before, but must have just overlooked or forgotten:

Here are some more versions of the Tartar flag, including another Tartar flag with an owl:

 

 

 

 

 

Some other interesting flags, like the flag for Isle of Man

 

SWEDISH FLAGS:

This plaque of flags from 1805 in Swedish I found particularly interesting. Sweden has a rather poor selection of flags in the DLC, I guess because they were historically unimaginative with their flag, but here are a couple of variations of the flag that I hadn't seen before:

I think it might be worth including for Sweden the flags of Riga and Reval (Tallinn) as seen on this plaque, as both cities have been under Swedish rule until about 1710, the beginning of this game's timeframe. Also the Strahlsund flag, as Pomerania was Swedish for a while until about 1807.

There's also some of the variations of the Swedish flag on the top left side that aren't in the DLC and could be added in the future.

I also have been thinking for a while that this Swedish flag should be added to the DLC, even though it might be too early for the game timeframe by just a few decades:

There's also 2 interesting Danish flags on the above plaque.

[Anolytic]

I came across a new source on historical danish flags and ensigns:

http://internationalcongressesofvexillology-proceedingsandreports.yolasite.com/resources/20th-Stockholm/ICV20 Engene.pdf

It had some new and more detailed pictures of the flags of Danish trading companies, not yet included in the DLC:

(should read POH instead of PON)

From other sources:

 

[Frozen]

Ensign of the South Carolina navy

New York naval ensign 1775

New England ensign

Nwe England ensign variant

Oops sorry forgot this one.

Continental Flag 1775

The devs can find a lot of US Naval flags on this site. http://www.loeser.us/flags/revolution.html

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Frozen

[Marquês do Bonfim]

 

 

 

 

 

Royal Portuguese family arriving at the coast of Rio de Janeiro, escorted by a couple of british man of wars; Anglo-Portuguese alliance. In the picture, it shows the british man of war at the far left firing cannons to announce the arriving of the royal family.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Portuguese Privateer

[Marquês do Bonfim]

If you're not gonna add the Portugal nation, then atleast add the Portuguese flag into the Great Britan faction so we can use them as an allie, like they were in real life. The Anglo-Portuguese alliance lasted a long time, probably even stands till this day, there were a lot of battles that Portugal went and did for the British, we deserve to be mentioned in the game! Portugal was active in the West Indies at that time, just not as much as the other nations, but so were a lot of nations that we currently have in-game.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Portuguese Privateer

[van der Clam]

Suggestion @admin: Can you please make the flag images more sharper contrast? Some of the Dutch flags look not just faded, but the edges on the emblems are so blocky and not crisp looking. The edge lines on the Willem of Orange flag is janky and doesn't seem to line up with the coloring lines on the back of the flag.

Also suggestion for clan flags: If we will not be able to create a complete flag of our own colors and letterings and emblems, would it be possible to have pre-designed historical ensigns that we could attach to current flags? i.e. Say a white flag with only the Royal Dutch emblem in the center or corner of our choosing? Or say the Willem of Orange flag with a prince coat of arms in the location of our choosing? Like image below (containing the Prince's Crest) This would allow more variants allowing Clans to differentiate themselves from others. OH, and it would be awesome if in the clan warehouse it would show the flag of the creators choosing.

Dutch flag suggestions:
Dutch West India Company for Dutch Brazil

Royal Standard of Prince of Netherlands