Economy update 2. Improved trading

[admin]

Final part of the economy update will be deployed before the end of the year. 

• Approximately 50+ new goods will be added for trading
• Dyes will be added (part for the future)
• Resources will be repositioned and system of distribution changed - this might cause changes of spawn for standard natural resources in some locations
• Pricing systems might start including distance from source into consideration
• Trader tool will most likely be removed as it gives too much information; turning search of good deals into modern electronic trading, destroying immersion and trading opportunities for those who want to occasionally stumble upon something special. It was always a qa tool to help developers find problems with prices and test changes in economy and pricing mechanisms.

 

 

[SirAlatriste]

I really love you.

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

Nice Work!

[Teutonic]

So traders don't want more trade goods and they would like more information.

So we decide to have more trade goods and no information? Wow. Dumb.

[AeRoTR]

Now that is interesting, I can not think this game without trader tool

That means you will introduce captain's logbook, getting updated when visiting ports, auto update from clan mates visiting ports, buying information around. Creating trade, fighting routes with additional informations, in our log books, even plotting routes etc. 

Planty of games doing this for last 30ish years starting with Sid Meir's original Pirates etc.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

If you remove trader tool can you do use all a favor and put back on the map what ports can produce (buildings) and maybe major resources like we had before the wipe?  I know I prob won't be the only one saying this....."I'm not going to go from port to port in a trade ship to find out where every thing is only to be ganked constantly."

I'm not saying list all goods in that port bu something like This port produces Fir, Coal, Hemp and Caribbean goods.

[John Jacob Astor]

25 minutes ago, admin said:

Final part of the economy update will be deployed before the end of the year. 

• Approximately 50+ new goods will be added for trading
• Dyes will be added (part for the future)
• Resources will be repositioned and system of distribution changed - this might cause changes of spawn for standard natural resources in some locations
• Pricing systems might start including distance from source into consideration
• Trader tool will most likely be removed as it gives too much information; turning search of good deals into modern electronic trading, destroying immersion and trading opportunities for those who want to occasionally stumble upon something special. It was always a qa tool to help developers find problems with prices and test changes in economy and pricing mechanisms.

 

 

Final?  So no other changes to the economy?

Current trading ranges for Doubloons makes them impractical to use for extra labor if selling resources and crafted ships.  This throttles contract market activity.  Either 1)  extra labor needs to be paid for in Reals or 2)  merchants need their own way of obtaining extra labor for Reals that is separate from the Admiralty conversion.

Given what else Doubloons are used for I am not seeing how they could possibly be balanced so as to make extra labor a practical option.  Except for maybe successful combat players who can simply ignore the trading cost.

Edited November 28, 2018 by John Jacob Astor

[Corona Lisa]

Nice, cant wait for the new goods

[Njord]

12 minutes ago, admin said:

Resources will be repositioned and system of distribution changed - this might cause changes of spawn for standard natural resources in some locations

Could we have more ports with useful resources for upgrades like copper ingots and cartagena tar? So more ports have value for RvR and more people have access to upgrades to give them more equal chances in PvP. If we get more players after release, the prices for upgrades will go up even further. Do we really want PvP fights to be influenced that much by who has the superior upgrades? Also should upgrades have more value than the ships they are put on?

17 minutes ago, admin said:

Trader tool will most likely be removed

Can you make it so people can not draw data from API etc. ? I think it is the same problem with the map coordinates. If you remove them people will look for other ways to find them ( if possible ), leaving some people with knowledge of it and some without...

[Tom Farseer]

Sounds definitely interesting.

My concern is that if you completely remove the trader tool, without implementing something like the captains logs @AeRoTR mentionen in his comment, the meta listing will just move away from the game and into online spreadsheet that are maintained by players. Resulting in less tech-affine players losing a source of income while those that are used to creating spreadsheets and filtering their own flow of information get another advantage.

My advice is think hard about what consequences which change will entail.

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Can you make it so people can not draw data from API etc. ? I think it is the same problem with the map coordinates. If you remove them people will look for other ways to find them ( if possible ), leaving some people with knowledge of it and some without...

api will contain same prices information but it won't be in game (but on community managed resources). Which is a lot better for us. We cannot improve the trader tool and do not want to have an unfinshed feature in a final game. And i personally believe that electronic trading and knowing prices for goods 1000 miles away is against the age of sail setting. 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

More goods, no trader tool, this looks like total hell to me.

 

 You capture a cargo, then you have to rely on your memory (100+ goods name & values to remember ) to sell it at a good price, or visit every single port to eventually sell it a the best price if the port is not already full of it and refusing more ?

 This is totally a bad move, just making things painfull, difficult & boring, with less tool than a real life job, while serving as food for hunters..

 

Good good ...

[Njord]

30 minutes ago, admin said:

Dyes will be added (part for the future)

I assume these will be for ship paints?

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Resulting in less tech-affine players losing a source of income while those that are used to creating spreadsheets and filtering their own flow of information get another advantage.

Admin had stated they will link important sites front and center, so when @Felix Victor, @qw569 or whomever make the tools they will become common knowledge.

[John Jacob Astor]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

api will contain same prices information but it won't be in game (but on community managed resources). Which is a lot better for us. We cannot improve the trader tool and do not want to have an unfinshed feature in a final game.

This is not exactly "improved trading."  Unless you make the information available in a way that the user does not have to be a coder to access.

7 minutes ago, admin said:

And i personally believe that electronic trading and knowing prices for goods 1000 miles away is against the age of sail setting. 

Except that no merchant of any consequence visits every location they do business in.  They have people for that.

[SnovaZdorowa]

looks like only I am see this: "guys, you need more time to make reals". but it's historical and real hardcore😡

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

More goods, no trader tool, this looks like total hell to me.

 

 You capture a cargo, then you have to rely on your memory (100+ goods name & values to remember ) to sell it at a good price, or visit every single port to eventually sell it a the best price if the port is not already full of it and refusing more ?

 This is totally a bad move, just making things painfull, difficult & boring, with less tool than a real life job, while serving as food for hunters..

 

Good good ...

No, what it will do is spread more commodities around the map (which is a good thing) because instead of searching on your "Age of Sail Electronic Trading Device", most players will sell the unwanted or captured goods at the nearest port, instead of getting that last 2 Reales/unit further away.

Or, you know, you could just use these crazy new inventions called  "pen and paper" and start recording which ports have the best prices for what.....

Anyways, see you out on the water!  Bonne Chance!

[Bartolomew Roberts]

So if traders tools are removed whats to stop someone putting them up on the web?

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Bartolomew Roberts said:

So if traders tools are removed whats to stop someone putting them up on the web?

This is encouraged. I look forward to see what you come up with!

[Angus MacDuff]

16 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Could we have more ports with useful resources for upgrades like copper ingots and cartagena tar? So more ports have value for RvR and more people have access to upgrades to give them more equal chances in PvP. If we get more players after release, the prices for upgrades will go up even further. Do we really want PvP fights to be influenced that much by who has the superior upgrades? Also should upgrades have more value than the ships they are put on?

This is a very important point.  Is "very rare" really good for the game?  I agree completely with @Sovereign that the majority should have the superior upgrades, not an elite minority.  More access to the better resources, means more players will have the good upgrades and be willing to go out and take on the big boys.  You don't take a knife to a gunfight and you don't don leather armour against a guy in plate (Agincourt notwithstanding).

[jodgi]

7 minutes ago, John Jacob Astor said:

the user does not have to be a coder to access.

The coders among us have a history of making it available for all 

[vazco]

46 minutes ago, admin said:

Dyes will be added (part for the future)

If by dyes you mean a craftable ship paints, that's a great idea - finally some new player-based part of an economy.

[John Jacob Astor]

7 minutes ago, Bartolomew Roberts said:

So if traders tools are removed whats to stop someone putting them up on the web?

Nothing.  Except the folks that put API data on the web tend to be interested in combat mechanics.

Not in economics.

[vazco]

1 minute ago, John Jacob Astor said:

Except the folks that put API data on the web tend to be interested in combat mechanics.

Not in economics.

Just look here:
http://www.navalactioncraft.com/

If this guy was that much interested in crafting and economy to create a great feature, I bet others will as well. I guess API may need some new methods though, eg to pull contracts created by players. Probably also navalactioncraft would have to be updated to be useful, as it seems to show prices incorrectly now.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Last visited info - similar to what we had ages ago when we hovered mouse in the port - could be a good compromise to have information and quite agreeable for a age of sail setting.