Deep waters PBs since last wipe

[Sven Silberbart]

15 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

.. If a doubloon reward is more important than the port itself, then we have bigger problems in the game ..

 

Exactly. You nailed it. A port isn't worth to capture. Big grind, long travels, organisational work, big risk for .. having a worthless port, or more bad: a port you have to pay for every day wich makes grind once more needed.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

15 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Exactly. You nailed it. A port isn't worth to capture. Big grind, long travels, organisational work, big risk for .. having a worthless port, or more bad: a port you have to pay for every day wich makes grind once more needed.

Sacking the port at the expense of the enemies would be worth it ? ( no occupation of port, just plunder )

[Capn Rocko]

9 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Sacking the port at the expense of the enemies would be worth it ? ( no occupation of port, just plunder )

He is agreeing with me that many ports hold little value in the game. 

Ports need to be worth fighting for to ultimately make RvR worthwhile. These players asking for doubloon rewards (imo) are merely just asking for a band aid for a bigger problem... that is making ports worth capturing. 

 

 

[Red Dragon 13]

Make NPC ships of the line capturable again, with a limit of not more than 1 until you lose it, non tradable, etc.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Red Dragon 13

[z4ys]

Let's introduce a doubloons generating building. The closer to the enemy the better the production. Only one per clan /maybe even one per player. The building has costs like lvl 3 shipyard. Can be partial captured. (Has to be rebuild for only 1/2 of the orginal price when it has that kind of building previously)

Other ports can have supporting buildings that increase doubloons production by xy percent when in the same region.

As clan building doubloons go into clan warehouse if it's located in the same port. Otherwise that building has no function.

Edited November 27, 2018 by z4ys

[Vernon Merrill]

7 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Let's introduce a doubloons generating building. The closer to the enemy the better the production. Only one per clan /maybe even one per player. The building has costs like lvl 3 shipyard. Can be partial captured. (Has to be rebuild for only 1/2 of the orginal price when it has that kind of building previously)

Other ports can have supporting buildings that increase doubloons production by xy percent when in the same region.

As clan building doubloons go into clan warehouse if it's located in the same port. Otherwise that building has no function.

People would absolutely freak....  

The problem is RvR has to have risk to be "worth it"...

But people absolutely fear risk.

[Sento de Benimaclet]

No Captain Rocko . When everyone pays a game there can be no privileges for anyone. One earns the right to command a first rate when arrives to the highest rank. 

[Barbancourt]

5 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

But people absolutely fear risk.

No, they just don't want to take senseless risks. 

[Vernon Merrill]

But I thought they were end-content fun?  

So what you’re saying is people afraid to have fun because they’ll lose pixels that only require game time to replace?

[Teutonic]

the rewards are flat out piss poor compared to patrol zone or regular OW PvP, or even missions. a regular or casual player sees this and goes "why spend my limited time getting another useless port, when i could go enjoy x, y, or z?" I don't necessarily see anything wrong with it, just a change of player perspective. You see it now with more people going to the patrol zone due to better rewards whether it be through NPC grinding or damaging/sinking players... Or it could just be the decline in population has forced people to go to areas that promote engagements, which could be good and bad. I don't care anymore.

You still have clans like HAVOC who would grind ports for a fight and some players with too many doubloons to count, but if an opponent doesn't show, there is no fight.

You have the current cycle for Deep Water RvR:

Deep water ships for a big group of players have an expensive cost associated with them (4th rates to lineships). Due to this high cost, players do not wish to fling them left and right like we had done previously. Because players do not risk these ships like before, engagements with large ships declines drastically. Ports to attack or defend happen only to the most important ports for varying reasons that clans or nation deem fit to rationalize using expensive assets. Since this is the case, port battles and hostility to grind them rarely happens. Finally, when you look at the possible rewards to taking a port over the possible losses and expenses you or your group decide it's not worth doing.

Is that better for the game? Maybe?

Personally, I don't think so. you have a system that negatively affects everyone but the "I only play to PvP players" which in turn leaves you only with a very small niche group to an already niche game. You have end-game content that can't or won't be done consistently anymore which bores players who loved to engage in that content. the Devs have centralized the game into one type of play-style while alienating trading, empire building, and casual players. Sure, you've made one crowd happy, but at the expense of the overall game.

I advocated for lineships to be more expensive, and I won't lie that I am happy they are more expensive, BUT there is no reward for players to accept using them in any shape or form. You can't make something more expensive while also restricting the economy and reward system and expect an improvement. I'd be content if the economy and reward system was more lenient for all types of players, a system to PROMOTE more varied gameplay while still allowing assets in the game to be expensive. We can have great risk in a game if the game has a proper backbone to support the risk and reward, and the game currently does not support the risk.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Teutonic

[Barbancourt]

31 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

So what you’re saying is people afraid to have fun because they’ll lose pixels that only require game time to replace?

Nope, that isn't what I'm saying.

 

[Barbancourt]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Indeed.

Current patch only caters to raiders, gank groups in frigates and DLC owners (specially hercules (it is a plague)).

Random spawn of ressources (woods, ingredients for upgrades and trading) and harder lineship crafting have finally killed RvR. 

I'm not sure we'll have any way of knowing how things REALLY are until the economy and resources get a complete reboot with a proper number of players, but then I haven't been involved in the game as long as a lot of people have.  I feel like there's a combination of testbed server fatigue, doubloon-chasing fatigue and low holiday population that's putting a squeeze on the player numbers right now.

[Thonys]

it was not a joke i heard!

last week we were on a bold attempt to flip a port with our entire nation online.

after 3  hours of hostility grinding, we were at 30 % hostility. (woeha)

anyway,  at some point, one of the hostility members said " well we are at 30 % ill be back when you lot are at 70 % oke..., i have to go to soccer practice. (two and a half hour absence)

hearing that... i said: "well i that case i ll be back tomorrow for the port battle"

 

we never reached 31 % hostility after that enouncement.

 

(it clearly shows its a day job to flip a port with the numbers for some nations ATM , due the lack of players for some nations to participate in such a task.)

[Barbancourt]

23 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

My bet is on extreme and hardcore changes fatigue.

Fine woods patch, patch 9.8... and now patch 27. The same story that keep repeating itself.

Is it hardcore?  Things cost a bit more, but that isn't necessarily hardcore.  There are 3 activities that produce mucho doubloons, and if you enjoy those activities you have easy access to them, and if you don't enjoy those things you will have to either do them grindy style or pay someone else to. 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

Is it hardcore?

Ahahahaha, and then there were 99 captains sitting on a wall…………

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Guest

[z4ys]

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

A bit more... Well, my calculations is that those ships are not less than 10 times more expensive than before.

It is, in my view, more hardcore or less casual as you must play a lot to have those ships in a reasonable time if you want to play RvR.

 

What is a reasonable time? Pumping first-rate out everyday is not reasonable. This ain't world of the lineship.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, z4ys said:

What is a reasonable time? Pumping first-rate out everyday is not reasonable. This ain't world of the lineship.

so maybe bring back 4th rate PBs and save lineship battles for capitals?

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

so maybe bring back 4th rate PBs and save lineship battles for capitals?

We are free to come with any ship we like. 

[Thonys]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

We are free to come with any ship we like. 

exactly, but i cannot pay a ship i want to buy from the shipbuilder for Reaals. if the builder does not have the gold for it, the buyer does not have the gold for it , and they both can buy the entire oak supply in the world . have millions to spend and have the sailors and captains to sail it.

something is missing ...(oh.... I got an assist in a battle today and it gave me +1.5  jump on my account  )

its the gold that is the problem

doing trade must provide the gold for shipbuilding, making a profit does build the gold stock in the save. 

at this time the admiralty provides gold what comes from the aliens from space.

 

that gold is in the cloud somewhere and i cannot reach it.  

i hope what we have today it is not a final version, but a test version for balance parameters...... otherwise  ...huh.. well Rochel ...we are in some way doomed for extinction 

 

i don't want to be rude, and probably no one understands what i am saying but we are not there yet. trade, missions, and much more is not implemented to make the circle round. so we are in chains for some reason and not free to do what we want....yet.. but you can sail any ship you want. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Thanks.

What's the issue then ? having to have 21 docks full of PB ships ? 

Pretty sure plenty of us players have way more than that.

Between my 5 chars I prob have 150 VM and a dozen or more 1st rate, but I know folks that only have one and maybe a back up so they won’t risk it.  Most of the time they are set up for PVE grind not PvP fights.  I think VM should be tradeable for Doubloons for the guys that like RVR but don’t want to grind tons of AI.

7 hours ago, Intrepido said:

My bet is on extreme and hardcore changes fatigue.

Fine woods patch, patch 9.8... and now patch 27. The same story that keep repeating itself.

Now that you say that I think for me it’s worse than fine woods.  After 2+ years I’m honestly burned out of this game.  Starting to feel about it like I did when I left WoT and came played this game full time.

2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

so maybe bring back 4th rate PBs and save lineship battles for capitals?

I brought up having some ports with a ship top limit depending on the draft of the ship.  Some areas can’t support lineships but 3 or 4 th rates would be fine.  I kinda miss the old PB but only cause they where 24 vs 24 most the time.  Not 5-10 vs 5-10

[HamBlower]

16 hours ago, Capn Rocko said:

There are more ports that require ships smaller than 1st rate than ports that require 1st rates. Why are these ports not being contested? The reward for winning a PB should be capturing/keeping the port. If a doubloon reward is more important than the port itself, then we have bigger problems in the game and should be focusing our negative energy elsewhere 😃

 

I wrote mostly "ship of the line". Sure I used the examples of first rates. Except of shallow water ports in nearly every PB ships of the line are used.

You need dublons to build these ships.  

As player you need dubloons to build the ships that are needed to attack or defend a port.

If you think this isn't the main reason that RVR doesn't nearly exist any more, please write down your opinion   

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Is it the ability to build a Line Fleet or the mechanics leading to PB ?

Looking to wargame mechanics it surely can't be both ( biased opinion, i struggle a lot trying to comprehend the "want an arena" mindset outside of Legends )

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, Thonys said:

exactly, but i cannot pay a ship 

My statement was that we all could bring 5th rates. No need to show up with a 1St rate. Free to bring whatever we can afford. 

[Sento de Benimaclet]

Limit the use of first rates to PB's higher than 10,000 BR. For example. What is not reasonable is to complain that people do not leave the safety zone, that few do PvP and then put those prices on ships.One Bellona 4200 doubloons and 1 VM. seriously?  Where is common sense? 

[staun]

38 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Is it the ability to build a Line Fleet or the mechanics leading to PB ?

Looking to wargame mechanics it surely can't be both ( biased opinion, i struggle a lot trying to comprehend the "want an arena" mindset outside of Legends )

And why can't it be both.

Mechanic that made ppl forget about PB

- Grinding AI(I could actually live with that)

- No value in most port. Cost money every day you have a port, except a few.  for some nations/clans it actually have been a grind to keep those ports paid, so it stops any interest in getting more.

Missing sol fleet.

- With out any Sol ships  it simply will take to long to flip a port.

- Can't make a competive fleet, because ppl simply only can sail in 5 rates(fill the Br because of numbers of players), because they havent enough doublons to make Sol.

But again it is up to the players in the end. The Shallow could be a fun place. Still some smal Br ports that could be fought over outside the shallows to. But here comes the issue with players mentality in. Small br pb fleets is easy victims to screenings fleets ore big group just looking for PvP. So unless you can your self have a screening group, well the chance to get in a pb is small.