War server player stats.

[jodgi]

14 minutes ago, victor said:

If you play that game (and I assume you do) you should know that this model of game leads to

1) a population of 100 players prime time (in the good days)

 2) an elitist toxic community 

Is this that you want for NA?

Hmm .. I only pop in on occasion because after the wave of f2p games came only Americans seem to play it, that sucks for an action hungry eurohead. I have intense sympathy for US NA fans who experience the opposite here.

I played AH in pre WoT times where they had to split servers to accommodate everyone, 1-2k concurrent players. I've never seen less salt and toxicity than in AH, makes me sad to hear you've had a wildly different experience.

I was *cough* part of the elite *cough* and some of our number would prey on the weak in the most meta machines, but most would fly perceived weak planes to get global kill messages in shit planes (kill and get back safe). 

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Why not just make repairs weigh more?

the problem to be solved isn't how many repairs you can take on a journey, it's how many you can use in battle which weight has no effect on.

[William Death]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

Why not just make repairs weigh more?

Number 1, weight in hold slowing you down is silly. Ships float at a designed waterline. If they are too light, you add more cargo (repairs/food/cannons) or ballast rocks to bring them down to that waterline. If you try to overload a ship...yeah, it'll slow down. But normally loaded....no speed loss. You would only dump stuff overboard to gain a bit of speed in a dire emergency, because lightening the ship risks a capsize and forces you to resupply sooner.

 

Secondly...well lets look at an example:

Repairs are increased by 3x weight factor. 

How many will I carry? I already carry way more than the average player does (a "normal" repair load for a Constitution might be 70/70 or something...I carry 130/120). Assuming we want to go the same speeds, that means the normal player will be carrying 23/23, and I'll carry the heavier repair loadout of 43/42 or something like that.

23 is enough for maybe 2 repairs on a fir/fir Connie. 1.5 or less on the average teak build. 43 is maybe 2-4 repairs, depending on build.

So what does this mean for fighting? 

I'm already looking to only fight fights I can win, because the mods on my ship are expensive to replace, it costs doubloons to craft the ship, and I have to transport any significant doubloon rewards back home in my hold. Limiting my reps makes me even more likely to decline a reasonable fight because I'll be left a battered wreck if the opponent was any good at all. 

As a result, ganking goes up, more players use hit-and-run tactics even more, quality of PvP goes even lower, less players sailing in OW because they have to keep returning to port to repair after any battle, so they're not likely to venture far from a friendly port.

 

I just don't see any way to limit repairs other than actually....limiting them. Increased weight of reps isn't just incentive to carry less, its incentive to carry less, fight "smarter" (where fighting smarter = always winning = fighting with a strong advantage), and not venture far from the safety of ports.

[jodgi]

7 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

High survivability of PvE fighters means they don't loose ships, thus they very rarely have to craft or buy ships for themselves in order to fight. Thus they don't have a major influence on Eco as consumers of ships.

This is the best bit I've read here for a long time. Please don't say it ain't so!

PvE players are killing the economy!

Perfection...

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

the problem to be solved isn't how many repairs you can take on a journey, it's how many you can use in battle which weight has no effect on.

I agree here.  There really is a "gameplay" reason to carry lots of repairs.  We don't want to have to go home after every fight.  @William Death is also correct that a properly ballasted ship has the correct weight already and as it gets lighter due to usage, a Captain will add ballast to make it right.  We need repairs limited IMO, and I would love to see it down to 3 reps.  I don't ever last longer than that anyway (in NA!).  I've either won, run, or died by then.

[Farrago]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

I can see your argument but I still think that the repair mechanic as it would be with heavier repairs induces a trade off that is good for the game.  The fact that you can't go sailing off forever away from ports where you can repair and resupply is good for RvR, good for the economy (stocking repairs is meaningful and important) and would be better in the long run. assuming the population was high enough you could find PvP without having to sail half way across the map.

Yep.

We don’t have to stock gunpowder, ammo, food, or fresh water... having something to consider when planning patrols is a good thing. 

[HachiRoku]

6 minutes ago, Polish Privateer said:

I do remember you guys talking about looting copper platings from AI and hitting fleets. No matter the reason, books or mods, PvE meta-mod farming is just wrong. In the normal Caribbean world, captain would be able to go to the damn shop and get the muskets he wants or order them or whatever else. Access to that sort of stuff is very poor and clearly not skill-based.

yes one time bom and I were hunting around mortimer and we got bored. We attacked brig and looted copper plating. We then had a think going where we would randomly attack a cutter with 2 5th rates saying: "I smell copper plating" We got 1 copper plating during that time. Farming AI for books is bad I agree. There is a solution to it. If I have 5 books equip on my ship. If someone sinks me there could be a % chance one of my books drops. Lets say I have art of ship handling. If someone sinks me there is a % chance of either notes of the best or art of cargo droping. 

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Farrago said:

Yep.

We don’t have to stock gunpowder, ammo, food, or fresh water... having something to consider when planning patrols is a good thing. 

Do we really want this RL issue?  Wouldn't we rather do long patrols independent of supplies?

[HachiRoku]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I can see your argument but I still think that the repair mechanic as it would be with heavier repairs induces a trade off that is good for the game.  The fact that you can't go sailing off forever away from ports where you can repair and resupply is good for RvR, good for the economy (stocking repairs is meaningful and important) and would be better in the long run. assuming the population was high enough you could find PvP without having to sail half way across the map.

Doesn't work. When Exile went out hunting we used to log and alt with a trader full of repairs off in the area. We once spent 5 real life days around the dutch capital because there was no free ports close. I admit we farmed seals to get pvp marks for buying meta books for clan. We had to do it effectively! 

[z4ys]

In my opinion endless repairs are fine as long dmg, dmg adsorption (thickness, hp, penetration) and repair amount match each other. Aka mirror match. Problems start to occur when one gets favored to much. 

Fighting at range. -> thickness increase  resulting in less dmg favoring repairs.

Fighting ships outside your ship rate -> dmg absorption + repair amount overweight dmg

Sometimes woods+mods+ books create a mismatch against stock ships.

 

When someone needs 15mins to demast should the game throw him a bone a la you did well now pick up your reward? Or should the game push him to maybe improve his stills and do it in 5mins to enjoy his accomplishment for 10mins?

 

As I said I'm totally fine with the repair system. It promotes action. While limited repair just favours the most cowardly player.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by z4ys

[jodgi]

32 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Therefore, catering to the @jodgi type player and removing depth from the crafting and trading or player-economy game

!?!

Noone is taking your precious crafting and trading away. I'm the least catered to player there is! I'm a victim, a martyr! I'm here because NA combat is so frikkin' good I'm not able to walk away. I sail for hours finding nothing or just beating up helpless smaller ships. The fun fights/time ratio is horrendous to me. But then I know I might meet rediii again, so he can beat me up. Or I might meet Ram again, so he can beat me up (ask them, they'll confirm).

I'm just a hopeless romantic and not the antichrist of all things you hold dear.

[LeBoiteux]

25 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This is the best bit I've read here for a long time. Please don't say it ain't so!

PvE players are killing the economy!

Perfection...

Hoping you are not a salesman IRL because I've never heard such a lousy sales pitch : 'If you don't buy a product from me every day, you kill your Economy". 🙂

Well, what I said was strictly about the economy of ships. In-game Economy is not only about selling/buying ships. There are also crafting  repair kits, guns... that PvE-ers buy.

(Oh, my ! using words like "killing" in that case... a case when ppl don't act/buy... 😂)

Edited November 26, 2018 by LeBoiteux

[Christendom]

Time for @Polish Privateer to change his name to Banished PVEer 

[victor]

33 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I played AH in pre WoT times

try now and you'll see how it evolved (better, involved)

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, Christendom said:

Time for @Polish Privateer to change his name to Banished PVEer 

Shots fired!

1 minute ago, victor said:

try now and you'll see how it evolved (better, involved)

My dear, dear AH. WoT is great and all but needs to fend for itself. NA and AH are things of beauty I will defend irrationally.

[Havelock]

48 minutes ago, admin said:

Maybe you can ask Ram Dinark or Havelock for tips on how to avoid AI in the open world as for some reason AI attacks you too much, forcing you to PVE which is strange given bad taste in the mouth.

Its quite easy, you just sail fir/fir Rattlesnake with elite spanish rig and escape all that nasty AI. Then you go to shallows and hunt player trader brigs (prefered low ranks). True story!

Regarding mast balance, theres one simple rule for duels: Use elite french rig or get rekt. Dont have it? Either you get demasted right away or you get demasted after your enemy sprayed 4 random broadsides into your rig after losing in hull damage. Musket upgrades added a new rule: Dont board if you dont have them. I dont think you can disengage in time even if you board someone at 100vs25 prep and he has the upgrade. Even if you disengage once he will be able to pull again instantly. Good luck surviving 4 of those musket volleys...

[Farrago]

35 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Do we really want this RL issue?  Wouldn't we rather do long patrols independent of supplies?

No. I like that amount of repairs I’m carrying matters. 

[Farrago]

3 hours ago, admin said:

It's an asymmetric - positional comment. What you consider bad i consider great.

I play soccer football sometimes and i know when i practice i will never be like Messi. The gap is too big. To much dependence on physical ability and genes. 
But here i know that if i practice i can be like top players because: The game is slow, it has no cheating (impossible to cheat), there is no camping, no sitting in bushes, or backstabs, no headshots, no twitch based reflexes needed. Its a perfect game for slow deliberate pvp.

k/d will be high like in real life. Erich Hartmann had what  357 to like 2 KD? Many top air aces had 24+ K/D in WW2 and Mig alley's korea. We EMBRACE the fact that if you play right you can have 50+ KD and this brings immense enjoyment because it shows that SKILL matters (and knowledge of ships and fittouts). There is no participation trophies.

So here lies the main difference:
We want a player to be able to learn mechanics in such a way making 6v1 possible, making Jeff bezos 150bln personal wealth possible, if you practice and work hard.
You want participation trophies. You want communism where everybody's skill is equal and top players are dumbed down and forced to play dumb for equal pay. 

below

Here is again the asymmetry of views (and its great)

You want to even out everyone cutting the skill out creating a welfare state giving out participation trophies. 

[snip]

Thanks for posting your philosophy: your goal for the game. We testers will benefit greatly by knowing your goals. Our feedback can be more focused and useful.

Efforts like the graphical sailing lesson you show in this thread will definitely help the game reach this state. Although there is some disagreement on how we get there, most players still playing believe this should be a skill based game. I personally believe those skills should be a challenge to obtain. But right now, many new players seem to think success is just an upgrade or certain ship away. They’re wrong. Please continue to provide not specifically a admap, but at least some guides on various routes to success. Otherwise, we won’t have enough new players stick around long enough so they can gain skills. It doesn’t need to be easy, but it should always be possible.

Fair sails. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, admin said:

....

I play soccer football sometimes and i know when i practice i will never be like Messi. The gap is too big. To much dependence on physical ability and genes. 
But here i know that if i practice i can be like top players because: The game is slow, it has no cheating (impossible to cheat), there is no camping, no sitting in bushes, or backstabs, no headshots, no twitch based reflexes needed. Its a perfect game for slow deliberate pvp.
.....

The way I see this example with this game though is you set the game up though to expect every one to play on a pro level, when you very much explain right here not every one is going to play pro level.  Try going against a bunch of pro's and see how many SOCCER games you win?   When folks do nothing but loose they tend to not have fun and they stop playing......

This is why I'm asking for the high death list posted (blank out chars names if you must) cause I want to see the Ratio of Deaths vs PvP kills for the other end of the spectrem for the casuals that get farmed all the time.  As we all ready see the very good players don't get killed that often.

3 hours ago, admin said:

Maybe
maybe player leaderboards with your position should be added to game (but we have heard people do not like measuring length of particular parts)?

I haven't seen one mention of a player leaderboard what we would like is to see our own stats in games.  That way we can maybe compare them or see how we are doing to others, not make it a >Some Object< measuring contest....

3 hours ago, admin said:

I am ok with removal repairs or changing them. Its just no-one can explain how their removal can increase tactical depth 

Limit repairs to only during Battle sails or slower and you will see a lot more deaths.  Specially at the hands of the gankers that take out some times 6 ships.  If they can't just run repair and re enter fight they will last less and won't be able to take out half a dozen ships.  That is pure skill base and knowledge of game mechanics which honestly the majority of the average players don't know this.  That and stacking repair mods/knowledge so they can do so.  I just never understood how you can repair sales while going full speed while being chased by half a dozen or more folks right out side a capital.

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

Knockout blows.  In your kurasawa video that was linked, noticed it only takes 1 swipe for Toshiro to take out an enemy.  They don't pull off and repair.  

A damaged side or a missing mast used to a definitive blow to an enemy, now they just pull off and/or kite for 10mins until that repair can magically regrow their sails.   

There are a few things that can do this, the repairs only while battle sales or slower.  The fact if you have such a diffrence in ships vs broad side.....a SOL (1st rate) giving a full broad side to a light ship lets say the Herc should put it in such a shock it  should be pretty much dead in water, not able to just pull away and repair.

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

A reputation system would work.  Other games would call this Fame.  

Lower the K/D ration of a player is, the less fame it pays out.  Higher the K/D, the more fame.  You clearly are able to track the stats as seen by the screenshots in the thread, why not put them to better use?

Lowering the K/D would mean they have to fix the zones that are just plan easy to farm noobs and casuals and let them have a safe place to do there thing and have fun.  And no we don't want to go to the stupid PvE server.  There is clearly a problem when you have K/D that high, that means there are a lot of folks getting killed and not winning and that means no fun and that means folks stop playing.  If they don't have those easy hunting grounds they will have to find there fights other place whether it's PvP zones or actually forcing folks to RvR if they want fights.   Fastest way to get fights with some clans/nations is to put some agro on important ports.

2 hours ago, admin said:

people forget that this is an indie game worked on by like 2 programmers now. Its an indie game and must work and be playable with low numbers. If you introduce fame you might get nothing for your kills even if other skilled players have not logged in. 

Wait iby 2 porgammers now you mean it use to be worked on by more?  Where have the others gone?  I some times wonder what the hell my DLC money and money for alts went too?  I hope the programmers aren't the ones doing localization cause that should be other folks that actually know the lanuage while the programmers work on more important things...Like ships through land and fixing other bugs before release?

Though later a reputation system would be nice, could be a in game way to switch nations too if you don't want to use forge papers. 

2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Guys don't talk about removal of repairs in general. I would love that! The issue is there will be backlash from noobs that do like farming ai and struggle doing so. We need to find middle ground. Complete removal would be really bad! 

For the casuals repairs are needed, I know a lot of folks think AI are boring and easy, but for many they are not.  That cause we have learned the game and the mechanics and they just seem easy to us.  Believe me there are many folks that struggle to fight AI's even in a group with other players.  See it all the time when I take US players out to do hostility, than they get creamed by actually players that knows these things better than them.  For them AI is a struggle.  Not every one is mister ELITE VET

[Sir Loorkon]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Having said all things above about skill  - WE DO NOT WANT I WIN Buttons given and will eliminate overpowered upgrades from the game - we have already started with group limitations and will continue with tuning the upgrades to remove extreme importance of upgrades or giving them excellent counters. 

 

multi reps are hated but i think they give the chance to recover from mistakes - (good for lower skill players) AND they force the player to be aggressive. 
Timing them is a skill and i think they increase depth. 

I think you gave a perfect argument why multireps should stay as they are. In addition, without multireps the mastsnipers whould get a big advantage and it will shorten battles and make it very very hard to fight outnumbered against ganking squads.

[HachiRoku]

4 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think you gave a perfect argument why multireps should stay as they are. In addition, without multireps the mastsnipers whould get a big advantage and it will shorten battles and make it very very hard to fight outnumbered against ganking squads.

That is incorrect. Multiple reps favors the side with more numbers. 

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think you gave a perfect argument why multireps should stay as they are. In addition, without multireps the mastsnipers whould get a big advantage and it will shorten battles and make it very very hard to fight outnumbered against ganking squads.

But what you and everyone who proposes reps stay as is forget is players will adapt to the new depth of combat. The same combat that is possible now wouldn't be nearly as viable with a 3 repair limit, we all know this. Try and snipe more than a topmast at 300 meters. It's really not as fight ending as you make it to be. You're not going to just dive on the enemy unless you know you have a beefy ship to take the punishment. It's a risk/reward thing.

Where the problem does lie though and this will make or break a 3 rep system, battle join timers and battle join limits. There are currently no battle join limits and some will probably have to be added in order to make fights consistently fun and get rid more of the filler battles. Where I disagree with admin is the benefit that multi reps have which is helping new and old players recover from mistakes, and force the player to play aggressively.

Multi reps help evenly across the board, not between new/old players. Old players get exponentially better along with new players. All this does is stretch the skill gap (imagine a bell curve). Whatever a new player gets from multi reps a skilled veteran gets twice over. That's what you call artificial skill gap. 3 repairs is not only more realistic and fitting, it actually bases skill on positioning, gunnery, and endurance in a fight, not how aggressive you can be, which is only 1 type of playstyle out of many.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Kawazz]

8 hours ago, admin said:

There is a very strange dynamic that US players buy majority of copies but do not play.
It could be explained by the placebo - players buy the game, go into the game or forums, hear the whining and leave, which leaves the US timezone in a perpetual state of flux.

The game isn't complete and there's plenty other games that are, that's all it is. Some enjoyed the game when it originally launched but plenty left by the time of the first wipe.

The grind drove people away but early access drives even more away. Some don't enjoy the drastic swings or seeing how the sausage is made.

 

Assume USA players also joined the USA nation then that's another issue entirely...

To explain the USA, it has leadership and culture problems. 

It's a nation of role players and full of people that barely understand the game. There's some good players in the mix but their experiences get ruined by the majority and sometimes those good players leave and go to other nations. There are ones that stay because they love "Mercia" but that's an excuse. Ignorance in short is the USA's problem.

It's simply one of the worst nations in the game.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Kawazz

[Suppenkelle]

4 hours ago, Havelock said:

 PS: Also, grats to @Sir Loorkon for 0 deaths even though i know he often sails alone
PPS: Another shout out to @Palatinose who shows up at least 4 times on the last chart (afaik, maybe its even more ). Youre my hero!
PPPS: Dont forget the legendary Mr Bunny Hop, the most talented player this game has ever seen.

PPPPS: Also don’t forget Albatros! With 80+ years possibly the oldest player on the server and still in the top 30 PvE players! Chapeau!

[Liq]

5 hours ago, admin said:

k/d will be high like in real life. Erich Hartmann had what  357 to like 2 KD? Many top air aces had 24+ K/D in WW2 and Mig alley's korea. We EMBRACE the fact that if you play right you can have 50+ KD and this brings immense enjoyment because it shows that SKILL matters (and knowledge of ships and fittouts). There is no participation trophies.

Hartmann did have excellenct statistics going for him, yes. 352 confirmed kills, at first glance you think - wow. 

However, if you go any deeper into it - which I did, in a project i did a couple years ago - you will soon realize that he actually wasn't all that great you thought he was..

Most of Hartmanns kills on the eastern front were on, due to the lack of experienced pilots, poorly trained pilots flying very vulnerable IL2's... Hartmann would just do what he did best.. get real close up and unleash a quick deadly burst, without them ever seeing him coming. Some sources claim that he got as close to 20 metres before pulling the trigger.

So yeah. He did get a lot of confirmed kills on vulnerable IL2's not even seeing him, unable to do anything about it - and not on p47's, p51's, well armed, protected B24s etc. on the westfront.

I think, though, the analogy is perfect. Hartmann scored 352 kills. If you didn't go deeper into it you'd think he must have been a great fighter pilot (He surely was a great pilot, not denying that), but once you go deeper into it you'll see the truth.
Ingame we got about the same happening. Requins camping spawnpoints of inexperienced, vulnerable newcomers lacking the experience to even realize what's coming at them.

But seeing it as Skillful..... Don't really know.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Liq