War server player stats.

[Cmdr RideZ]

13 minutes ago, rediii said:

just shitting out stuff again are you?

The most 5v25's etc. happened after the introducing of multireps. Multireps add a layer to the needed skills ... a not so small one to be precise. We had gear etc. before already.

Of course I am not.

Multireps sure affect but the rest included.

Gear and unabalanced combat mechanisms will help to create bigger gaps between players even after you remove multireps.

 

Multireps have at least 2 sides.

Small fleet is able to abuse repair kits. This happens when you have gear or enemy not understanding at all what they are doing. Can be also both, gear and not understanding.

Another is when players don't have gear advantage and bigger fleet understands the basics, is more competent. In this case smaller fleet is suffering from Multireps.

[Vernon Merrill]

Three things most players can do to get a better than 50/50 chance of winning an OW engagement:

1) Learn to manual sail...  takes a day or two and is really a requirement with the sailing physics.

2) Get the wind.  Either in the OW tag (preferably) or when you have the opportunity in battle.

3) Angling, even if it means sailing towards your opponent.

 

Its amazing to me how many people refuse to do such basic homework and then complain the game is too "HARDCORE"!!!!

[Vernon Merrill]

2 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

The game is to hardcore

LOL...  the game is niche.   Ignorance is no excuse.

EDIT:  Oh, I see what you did there....   spell-check!

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Vernon Merrill

[Havelock]

As long as this proves im better than @HachiRoku everything is fine.

But really, i only do patrol zone these days and a few awesome battles pushed my score a lot (like getting 4 kills in a 2v4 in Nassau once). Im mad about that one time last week where @Captain Reverse and kaktus escaped certain death because i disconnected. Even though i like battles against x2 or x3 BR the best fight i had since update was the duel against @Imperator1, so i hope the upcoming duel tournaments will add a nice feature for players interested in competitive battles.

 

PS: Also, grats to @Sir Loorkon for 0 deaths even though i know he often sails alone
PPS: Another shout out to @Palatinose who shows up at least 4 times on the last chart (afaik, maybe its even more ). Youre my hero!
PPPS: Dont forget the legendary Mr Bunny Hop, the most talented player this game has ever seen.

[staun]

14 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Three things most players can do to get a better than 50/50 chance of winning an OW engagement:

1) Learn to manual sail...  takes a day or two and is really a requirement with the sailing physics.

2) Get the wind.  Either in the OW tag (preferably) or when you have the opportunity in battle.

3) Angling, even if it means sailing towards your opponent.

 

 

In general it works. Just not to much agsinst those top players.  The moment you have angled your ship they just mastsnipe. No mast no fight.

[Georg Fromm]

virtueller Schwanzvergleich +1

aber wenn es euch die Zeit vertreibt, warum nicht?

[Vernon Merrill]

1 minute ago, staun said:

In general it works. Just not to much agsinst those top players.  The moment you have angled your ship they just mastsnipe. No mast no fight.

Yep.  Then you know you have a good fight on your hands...  Which is what most people say they want, right?

[staun]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

Yep.  Then you know you have a good fight on your hands...  Which is what most people say they want, right?

I dont fight much without any mast. Basicly my ship just lay very still in the water. Everybody can take mast Down, somebody is just way better. Losing your mast not to good in a fight. It is a skill and I applaude those that can. 

So to your question. Get demasted in 10 min isent a good fight. A good fight for me atleast is a equal fight, where I atleast for more than 5 min belive I have a chance.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Learn from them. Try to emulate their tricks. Practice. If you die in a group fight, stay around and observe the others, what they do what moves they perform, etc.

[jodgi]

38 minutes ago, rediii said:

Multireps add a layer to the needed skills ... 

Heh, it adds a multiplicative layer to skill that's almost entirely equipment based. I do admit there is some skill involved with timing. I don't celebrate that some people can pull off 1v5 due to the multiplied skill (EQUIPMENT) gap, I still cry myself to sleep over this at times.

29 minutes ago, Poryv said:

is this has some value to git gut? or old and outdated? asking for a friend:

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/3685-a-treatise-on-naval-action-a-complete-guide-mr-doran/?page=1

 

Two things made Doran walk away: silly OW timers and multireps. Those who remember him will know he would be the one to benefit the most from multireps.

Now that OW timers are right again there might be hope. I nag at him to come back on occasion. "jodgi, dude... What are the OW timers and have reps been fixed?"

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

1) Learn to manual sail...  takes a day or two and is really a requirement with the sailing physics.

I will dispute this.

First, the Basic Cutter is fast enough and can sail through irons on auto, so for new players there is no need to manual sail. They’re more concern with aiming, watching the target, even just learning to avoid waves when firing (given the low profile of 7^th rate ships).

In fact all 7^th and 6^th rate's can do the same, it’s not until 5^th rate's that a player will realize that they have to learn to manual sail or realize that the need to learn it to do better.

Second, to a new player manual sailing can be complex, most come off games with just WASD, so to add in on top of that sail angles for both forward and aft masts, on top of that the different sail angles with different wind direction and then learn to do it all in reverse.

And also to learn different wind profiles for each ship and sail their sailing attributes and to know it for an enemy.

This all takes more than a day or two! alot more, weeks even, months for profiles.

Vets forget,

I think Admin has as well.  

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Guest

[admin]

3 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Dear @admin, maybe you can check competitive skill based PvP game K/D ratios to compare to your game before you start making any announcements.

K/D 2.0 is very good in competitive PvP. If you fight vs equally good opponents your K/D is at 1.0. If good players kill nubs on public server maybe something like  K/D 6.0? If skill difference is very high and they kill nubs gear does not matter that much.

Now check K/D ratios from your game. Ask from yourself why every good PvP player left your game? Ask if it maybe, just maybe, like really MAYBE, there is something to learn and maybe something to fix in Naval Action?

It's an asymmetric - positional comment. What you consider bad i consider great.

I play soccer football sometimes and i know when i practice i will never be like Messi. The gap is too big. To much dependence on physical ability and genes. 
But here i know that if i practice i can be like top players because: The game is slow, it has no cheating (impossible to cheat), there is no camping, no sitting in bushes, or backstabs, no headshots, no twitch based reflexes needed. Its a perfect game for slow deliberate pvp.

k/d will be high like in real life. Erich Hartmann had what  357 to like 2 KD? Many top air aces had 24+ K/D in WW2 and Mig alley's korea. We EMBRACE the fact that if you play right you can have 50+ KD and this brings immense enjoyment because it shows that SKILL matters (and knowledge of ships and fittouts). There is no participation trophies.

So here lies the main difference:
We want a player to be able to learn mechanics in such a way making 6v1 possible, making Jeff bezos 150bln personal wealth possible, if you practice and work hard.
You want participation trophies. You want communism where everybody's skill is equal and top players are dumbed down and forced to play dumb for equal pay. 

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

In other games 1v2 and 1v3. In Naval Action 1v5 and 1v6. This is exactly what happens when the game is broken, out of balance.

We had it before that good players were able to get 1v2 and 1v3 kills. Admin posted AFTER that they changed the game to make it possible to 1v2 and 1v3. They decreased the skill gap, introduced gear and unbalanced mechanisms. More players started to 1v2 and 1v3. Admin even made a post to inform this. Suddenly players that were able to get 1v2 and 1v3 started to get 1v4-8 victories. Ram Dinark was a good PvP player in 2016.

below

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

 

In other OW MMO games of this type, being able to fend off a 1v2 or even a 1v3 is a feat, but excellent players can do it.  If you look at some of Ram's screenshots it's sometimes 1v5 or 1v6.  This is perhaps one of the only games where this is possible. 

Here is again the asymmetry of views (and its great)

You want to even out everyone cutting the skill out creating a welfare state giving out participation trophies. 

We want this.

I always wanted a game where you cannot sit in the bush, where you cannot camp, where you cannot jump out and backstab. where you always see your enemies, or see 5 enemies and destroy them because they don't know the game and you know it.  

We will never find common ground with your views. We dont want participation trophies and go all in on skill and practice. 
This is a honorable attempt for a small indie studio like ours. We might be wrong but sometimes you have to take a stand. 

 

ps. 
Its is possible to eliminate teams (squad wipes) in equalized games like CS too. Because they do not equalize skill and i witnessed many cases where 1 player from lets say FNATIC eliminated whole enemy teams with just a pistol.  If our game was not an open world the K/Ds will be lower because open world allows you to pick fights you want. like the real life.

[Vernon Merrill]

24 minutes ago, staun said:

I dont fight much without any mast. Basicly my ship just lay very still in the water. Everybody can take mast Down, somebody is just way better. Losing your mast not to good in a fight. It is a skill and I applaude those that can. 

So to your question. Get demasted in 10 min isent a good fight. A good fight for me atleast is a equal fight, where I atleast for more than 5 min belive I have a chance.

A good fight is when you force the opponent to decide between a sail rep or hull rep after about 10 mins.  Sounds like you should have used a sail rep.  Or stayed at the edge of mast pen range.

So many options, but sometimes the other player is just better or has a few lucky shots.  

Oh, and the other thing I should have put on my list:

4) The battle timer is 90 mins...  There's no need to try and get a win in the first 5 mins.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Vernon Merrill

[Beeekonda]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

bump

In-game statistics incoming? Soon™?

PVP ShipsStatistics please? 

[staun]

4 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

A good fight is when you force the opponent to use a sail rep or hull rep after about 10 mins.  Sounds like you should have used a sail rep.  Or stayed at the edge of mast pen range.

So many options, but sometimes the other player is just better or has a few lucky shots.  

Oh, and the other thing I should have put on my list:

4) The battle timer is 90 mins...  There's no need to try and get a win in the first 5 mins.

I am not trying to win in the first 5 min. Just trying not to lose. 

I know I dont have the skill to fight them, so I just find some on my level and avoid those top players. Can’t be fun for them either.

[Vernon Merrill]

1 minute ago, staun said:

I am not trying to win in the first 5 min. Just trying not to lose. 

I know I dont have the skill to fight them, so I just find some on my level and avoid those top players. Can’t be fun for them either.

This is the most defeatist attitude I've ever heard.

Do you think the top players just started off with the same amount of skills they have now?  

[HachiRoku]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

I always wanted a game where you cannot sit in the bush, where you cannot camp, where you cannot jump out and backstab. where you always see your enemies, or see 5 enemies and destroy them because they don't know the game and you know it.  

I get where you are coming from but why doesn't it scale well? Why is it, at least in my opinion so "easy" to win 1-4s in bellonas and bigger ships yet so damn hard in frigates and smaller? I believe its the repair system timer that is badly designed to take 6th rates and 1st rates into account. 

[staun]

1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

This is the most defeatist attitude I've ever heard.

Do you think the top players just started off with the same amount of skills they have now?  

Call it what you will. Other will call it be a realist. You see I could also Dream about set the record in 100 meter. I neither have the talent ore the drive to be it.

 

[admin]

23 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Two things made Doran walk away: silly OW timers and multireps. Those who remember him will know he would be the one to benefit the most from multireps.

Now that OW timers are right again there might be hope. I nag at him to come back on occasion. "jodgi, dude... What are the OW timers and have reps been fixed?"

Having said all things above about skill  - WE DO NOT WANT I WIN Buttons given and will eliminate overpowered upgrades from the game - we have already started with group limitations and will continue with tuning the upgrades to remove extreme importance of upgrades or giving them excellent counters. 

 

multi reps are hated but i think they give the chance to recover from mistakes - (good for lower skill players) AND they force the player to be aggressive. 
Timing them is a skill and i think they increase depth. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, staun said:

Call it what you will. Other will call it be a realist. You see I could also Dream about set the record in 100 meter. I neither have the talent ore the drive to be it.

 

your problem is that you were in an average clan with average skilled players all of your life in naval action. DNP is known for ganking. Admit that and then you can go to players that have an actual idea of what they are doing. I don't blame you for your attitude because you admit it and to be fair MMOs are all designed like that. There are players on this list with 20:1 and more that I would consider average at the very most. They also don't fight battles against someone with as much skill as them. 

 

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, staun said:

Call it what you will. Other will call it be a realist. You see I could also Dream about set the record in 100 meter. I neither have the talent ore the drive to be it.

 

No, but if you train you'd improve...  right?  There is only ONE record-holder.  Does that make everyone else a "loser"??

[HachiRoku]

45 minutes ago, Havelock said:

As long as this proves im better than @HachiRoku everything is fine.

 

you better hope that tournament is with upgrades. If it doesn't use them I can actually afford to come to it  

[admin]

18 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

In-game statistics incoming? Soon™?

PVP ShipsStatistics please? 

Maybe
maybe player leaderboards with your position should be added to game (but we have heard people do not like measuring length of particular parts)?

[admin]

11 minutes ago, staun said:

Call it what you will. Other will call it be a realist. You see I could also Dream about set the record in 100 meter. I neither have the talent ore the drive to be it.

 

Just watch a couple of streams - its possible to counter top player tactics. All top players rely on enemy players making silly predictable mistakes. Like shooting chains into hull or shooting at extreme angles, or not using repairs in time or wasting them too early.

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

multi reps are hated but i think they give the chance to recover from mistakes - (good for lower skill players) AND they force the player to be aggressive. 
Timing them is a skill and i think they increase depth. 

Except they do the exact opposite for low skilled players. I believe many don't complain because of AI farming..... And trust me if you removed multi reps I think they backlash would be huge....