Female Characters

[thomas aagaard]

 the  Barbary Pirates were a huge problem for all the nations of Europe, who had all paid them tribute for decades, every last one. The tiny United States Navy changed that

The USN had to fight them, since US shipping was no longer protected by the treaties between the UK and the Pirates. And in the end it was again European navies that who forced the pirates to respect international after the Napoleonic wars...

[NorthernWolves]

The 'treaties' between the UK and the pirates was tribute. I've read about 6 books on the Barbary Wars and did a research paper once, I'm sorry, but that's a wildly incorrect statement.

[Saintduiex]

Well that was my point. You don't think there are going to be pirate captains with SOLs in Naval Action?

ah, my bad Sir! Sounds like we are in violent agreement

[thomas aagaard]

The 'treaties' between the UK and the pirates was tribute. I've read about 6 books on the Barbary Wars and did a research paper once, I'm sorry, but that's a wildly incorrect statement.

Yes The UK paid the pirates to leave their shipping alone. That was a treaty. That protected the colonies. When the colonies declared Independence they where no longer protected.. and the US had to protect their ships them self. The US Barbery wars did not in any way end piracy in the area. The end of the Napoleonic war did. (since that freed the different navies to do something about it... and in the end the area was taken as colonies by different European powers)

[Reki]

let them use dress from properly time, but add some nice lookig hat with some captain elements on it   It should look nice. The Key is do not make theyr faces and asses like in Potbs. Seriously.

[BrutishVulgarian]

[Thomas Blackwell]

 

 

And they say crime doesn't pay.

[Destraex]

the good thing about that picture is that she is dressed properly! That is how it should be in game.

If this is the same time period it would be interesting to see the Chinese in game. I have no idea when it comes to eastern navies in the period and am very curious. I certainly know the Turks had a large fiarly modern navy with first or second rates iirc European style ships in it. I can check when i get home.

[One-Eyed Willy]

How about if the devs put appropriately attired female models in game but you could select a option to see the female avatars or not. If you select the NO DAMES IN MUH GAME!! option instead of seeing a female avatar you see the male counterpart instead. This way everyone that doesn't want to see female captains won't & those that do want to see female captains will. Problem solved. TADA!

[Kamishirov]

How about if the devs put appropriately attired female models in game but you could select a option to see the female avatars or not. If you select the NO DAMES IN MUH GAME!! option instead of seeing a female avatar you see the male counterpart instead. This way everyone that doesn't want to see female captains won't & those that do want to see female captains will. Problem solved. TADA!

How's the open World part of the game going to work? Will you be defined by the character you make or will any interactions be simply between Captain of *ship name* and Admiral of *fleet name* ETC?

 

I've been looking at a lot of the comments in this thread and I have no problem with female captains of pirate ships whatsoever. (Never did really) The only thing that I'm hung up on are openly female captains of national naval vessal. It's just too unrealistic a scenario for me to get past. (Unless you guys can show me a case of a female in a national navy who had a commission of captaincy over a vessal)

 

I just want to make sure that things are as completely historically accurate as possible because I derive a lot of pleasure from games that have the maximum amount of realism regardless of what it entails, I know that this is "Just a game" but it's important to me.

[Dio]

I think female captains is an acceptable break from reality. The manner in which the women dress really doesn't have anything to do with it, honestly.

In the end so long as both sides get plenty of options I don't care, though I'd prefer a lack of skimpy gear for both sexes. You'll be a ship captain at the least so you need to be dressed in a somewhat respectable fashion.

[NorthernWolves]

Yes The UK paid the pirates to leave their shipping alone. That was a treaty.

When you pay someone to not attack you, that is tribute, that is ransom. A kid at school giving a bully his sandwich under threat of attack is not a 'treaty', if you claim it is not, then the word tribute had no more use in the English language.

 

England had paid them tribute since 1662, Turks had even raided the English and Irish shores in the 17th century and took captives, the business of paying Muslim pirates to not attack had nothing to do with the Napoleonic wars.

The British and Dutch bombarded Tunis a few times in the 1820's, but the 'treaties' still contained tribute. It wasn't until France occupied Algeria in 1830 did it cease.

 

The United States were the first nation to stand up to them and refuse tribute (after initially paying it themselves).

[One-Eyed Willy]

...interactions be simply between Captain of *ship name* and Admiral of *fleet name* ETC?

 

I assume this is how it's going to work.

[Destraex]

How about if the devs put appropriately attired female models in game but you could select a option to see the female avatars or not. If you select the NO DAMES IN MUH GAME!! option instead of seeing a female avatar you see the male counterpart instead. This way everyone that doesn't want to see female captains won't & those that do want to see female captains will. Problem solved. TADA!

This seems like a solution but game developers usually measure things in effort. If it's not going to benefit everybody then it's usually not deemed to be worth the time.

[Destraex]

I am trying to find out how many ships the British sent to help the chinese... I want to know whether they were east indiamen of proper men of war and how many. By the way the fleet of ships and men she had was inherited from her husband apparently. She does though seem to have been a great leader with forces more powerful than anything in the region. I am very curious about battle details. Who commanded the british fleet etc

http://deadline.com/2014/02/maggie-q-series-ching-shih-china-pirate-red-flag-679573/

[Crankey]

What type of ships did the Ottoman Navy have? Galleys? It might be interesting to see but I don't think that their ships would stand up to the modern sailing vessals of western nations.

 

I don't know much about the history, would be very interesting.

Obviously

 

The Ottomans had a large and well equiped fleet of Nelsons era, an example below. (Although this one didn't do too well)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chesma 

[Destraex]

From a book of mine. Russian Warship in the Age of Sail 1696 - 1860 

By John Tredrea & Eduard Sozaev

 

Two Turkish Ships of the line and the little one in the middle is a Russian ship.

It's from 1829 though so slightly out of scope.

[Reki]

Brig "Mercury" it is, but in true details of actually Ottoman ships was very rarely noticed, except of captured ones. 

 

Ottoman had enough ships in fleet to be present in this game. They build ships with french building scool and specialists. There is noticed, that they ships have more than ordinary high decks, and wider than usual do other nations. Turkish sailors wasn't much educated, so in most cases they even doesn't know real ship name, aside from ship details. Because of that fact in russian books there is no real names of ottoman ships often. On that picture is hypothetical Selimiye and Buruc-u Zafer line ships, second one named in russian books as Real Bey (mistake).

 

Mahmudiye, ottoman 128 guns ship of 1827 year, was in fact largest SOL in world in that time.

[One-Eyed Willy]

Posted by - Destraex :

"This seems like a solution but game developers usually measure things in effort. If it's not going to benefit everybody then it's usually not deemed to be worth the time."

 

It does benefit everybody though. It benefits those that want to see female avatars & it benefits those that do not to see female avatars. It's win-win.

[thomas aagaard]

When you pay someone to not attack you, that is tribute, that is ransom. A kid at school giving a bully his sandwich under threat of attack is not a 'treaty', if you claim it is not, then the word tribute had no more use in the English language.

 

The British and Dutch bombarded Tunis a few times in the 1820's, but the 'treaties' still contained tribute. It wasn't until France occupied Algeria in 1830 did it cease.

 

The United States were the first nation to stand up to them and refuse tribute (after initially paying it themselves).

Countries sign treaties... schoolboys do not.

When the UK agree to pay money to the pirates, there is  a piece of paper with the agreement. That is a Treaty. sure one where the treat of attack is involved in its signing, but still a treaty.

(just like treaty that gives the US its naval base in Cuba. Signed under duress... but still a treaty)

And yes you are correct that the piracy it was ended by the French occupation in 1830... it had nothing to do with the US.

And no, the US was in no way the first to say no. Denmark attacked in 1770 and again in 1796-1797. Iam sure you can find other countries who did likewise at different points.  Not that it ended the payment, just lowered the price. Just as the two US barbery wars didn't ended the payments for the US.

 

So your original statement that "The tiny United States Navy changed that" is simply not correct.

(The US was simply not occupied with a large scale war and therefor could spare the ships to try do something about it... just like Denmark in 1796-97... )

 

[greybuscat]

You are missing a poll option...

 

Yes, but they can choose between scantily clad or dressed respectfully/have the same clothing options as males.

 

Wouldn't that just make more sense? Let the women (or men for that matter) who want to play female avatars decide themselves how they want them to be clothed. 

 

If there was a push from female gamers in the community for such options, it might make sense to make them. I have no moral problem with fan service, so why don't we just call things what they really are, and pay attention to the question of "how much in the way of resources do we want spent on outfits, detailed enough that 'scantily-clad' is even noticeable?"

 

I'm not made of stone, but I'd really rather they focus on gameplay first, and if female characters are included, I'd rather they make it about expanding everyone's options as players, not a T&A dress up sim for female gamers that are probably really here because they love ships, too. It sounds like an excuse wrapped up in pandering.

[Destraex]

Posted by - Destraex :

"This seems like a solution but game developers usually measure things in effort. If it's not going to benefit everybody then it's usually not deemed to be worth the time."

 

It does benefit everybody though. It benefits those that want to see female avatars & it benefits those that do not to see female avatars. It's win-win.

My point is the female option takes resources to begin with... which may not be justified when you consider the hard cold facts and figures rather than the fluffy new age diplomacy. Then to go an spend resources making an undo option to remove the resources because there are people who just want the averages of history means doubling the work that may not have been justified in the first place. Devs generally only do something in the first place if it will benefit everybody - male and female. What we really need is ships. The people on board are there as part of the ships not to be looked at too closely. They are not characters as such. 

 

I would prefer resources not be spent on avatars at all let alone minority ones. I would prefer more realism options added and the frames per second spend on more sail mechanics.

 

But that is my opinion. I am sure the devs will need to pander to pay lip service and keep politics in line. Which I am also fine with. It's the way of things.

[Siegfried]

I think that all is more simple.

 

If a woman come at Naval Action, she probably will write a female name and choose a female photo... All other people see her name and avatar-photo and we can live with it. Like all us can to do with male names and avatars.

 

The other day I saw a name over one ship in my team. This name was Juliette-something. Probably that ship was a woman but she simply was another team mate for me. That was not a problem with me.

 

Historical accuracy? I don't know and I don't bother about this aspect of "accuracy", but is a game and will be another historical inaccuracy worst.

 

I voted for first option. Sorry for my bad english.

[Robert Danforth]

Yeah I'm not sure we need an avatar on the ship anyway, as neat as it might be. Maybe way in the future.

 

A headshot or paper doll kind of thing (character sheet?) would be perfectly fine in most cases.

 

As it is, I plan on making a full uniform for a Post Captain in 1805, and I'll just wear it while I play. I'll be my own avatar!

[Juliette LaCroix]

Yeah I'm not sure we need an avatar on the ship anyway, as neat as it might be. Maybe way in the future.

 

A headshot or paper doll kind of thing (character sheet?) would be perfectly fine in most cases.

 

As it is, I plan on making a full uniform for a Post Captain in 1805, and I'll just wear it while I play. I'll be my own avatar!

 

My thoughts exactly. Id be cool with simply selecting gender in the character creation. Nothing more than a formality. Kinda like eve online was before they introduced the 3D Avatars.