Muskets need to go

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Get rid of these god damn muskets already.

Edited November 19, 2018 by traitorous mctraitoro
People focus on unimportant exaggerations I make

[Raekur]

Something to keep in mind when comparing a bonus. A bonus of +2% to hull is drastically different than say a +15% increase in cannon damage. (up to 200 points vs 3 for example). 

Bonuses need to be kept in perspective and not just compared outright. 

If you want to compare things directly, use the adjusted values after the bonus is applied to get a more accurate perspective.

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Delete me you peasant

Edited November 19, 2018 by traitorous mctraitoro

[Draymoor]

3 minutes ago, Polish Privateer said:

Reinforced Stern 150% is knowledge? Pump perms is knowledge? Git gud.

You're really comparing 150% stern armor to muskets that can kill over 200 crew in one volley? Far from the same. 

[Angus MacDuff]

The real point of this discussion is that there are far too many overpowered mods and knowledges. 

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Fine I shall change post to the main focus

Mush better now

Edited November 19, 2018 by traitorous mctraitoro

[AeRoTR]

How to kill 200 crew with muskets? 

When in my bellona I can kill 60 soldiers of enemy ai 5th rate, when I musket his defence. I put marines 15 + shooting. It looks normal to me. 

If you mean new upgrades giving that firepower, those need a nerf. 

[Rabman]

They are perms and not easy to farm up, sink the boat and lose the perm. If you are unsure if the enemy has a boarding fit, do not get boarded. If you can't avoid getting boarded and do not have your prep up or at least mods to counter boarding you were going to lose with or without the new musket perms. Marines, 5 rings, is almost enough to beat anyone in boarding who is not boarding fit and they are knowledge that can never be lost.

[vazco]

New mods destroy any strategy that there was in boarding game and make some strategies in duels useless, lowering depth of the combat system.

On the other hand I just got a nice boarding mod off @DizzWho, so until I sink I'm also ok with them staying in game.

2 hours ago, Polish Privateer said:

Reinforced Stern 150% is knowledge? Pump perms is knowledge? Git gud.

...or just get muskets, then you don't even have to Gitgud.

Edited November 19, 2018 by vazco

[La bouche]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

New mods destroy any strategy that there was in boarding game and make some strategies in duels useless, lowering depth of the combat system.

On the other hand I just got a nice boarding mod off @DizzWho, so until I sink I'm also ok with them staying in game.

...or just get muskets, then you don't even have to Gitgud.

lol...I got a nice 1777 muskets refit from a mission reward. Cant wait to put it on ship and test. Having lot of laughs about the complains from pro players losing their ships to that. After all, it  is not bad to see how the things going with this new era. Maybe there is some new counter strategy hidden in the new refits too...Pls, gentleman, adapt!

[Slim McSauce]

Boarding is so cancer lol. Poor saps losing their ships minutes into battle with the click of a button. Quite the action there.

[Angus MacDuff]

11 minutes ago, La bouche said:

lol...I got a nice 1777 muskets refit from a mission reward. Cant wait to put it on ship and test. Having lot of laughs about the complains from pro players losing their ships to that. After all, it  is not bad to see how the things going with this new era. Maybe there is some new counter strategy hidden in the new refits too...Pls, gentleman, adapt!

Pro players don't like to lose their ships to an OP mod.  "Mods don't matter"" i'm told.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

Pro players don't like to lose their ships to an OP mod.  "Mods don't matter"" i'm told.

yet they use those mods themselves. One of NA's closely guarded secrets.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Jean Ribault]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Pro players don't like to lose their ships to an OP mod.  "Mods don't matter"" i'm told.

They don't matter, until the pro player gets their ego all hurt loses their ship.

[Rabman]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

The biggest difference between reload modded ships and boarding modded ships is in my oppinion:

reload vs boarding modded = reload ship wins but gets more than 50% side HP damage by hugging

reload vs boarding modded = in boarding the boarding modded ships has no casualties against the reload modded ship

 

So boarding modded ships are able to do stuff in shooting but shooting modded fits instalose in boarding.

And yea, musket mods are far too powerfull

It's a weak straw man, they have marines 15 probably so 15 percent of their crew is out of the equation while being shot at, if they pop their repair to stay with the reload fitted ship, they'll be struggling to run one broadside, if they have prep up they will lose lots of men to ball in the broadside exchange. They will definitely come out worse unless they can force the boarding which is their only play, while the reload build can keep the boarder where he wants them.

Nevertheless the muskets seem overtuned, but I'm sure the devs will do a nerf pass and we'll still have super repairs and reload builds as usual. So many useless perms that no one will ever run and so many alternate approaches have no value when compared to repair and reload builds.

The underlined issue is the current boarding minigame is bad, and needs to be totally overhauled. Unfortunately that concept art we got a year ago seems to be dead with real time boarding with units and planks across ships. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Rabman

[vazco]

1 hour ago, La bouche said:

Maybe there is some new counter strategy hidden in the new refits too...

Of course there is. In case of muskets, it's best to counter them with muskets.

1 hour ago, La bouche said:

Having lot of laughs about the complains from pro players losing their ships to that.

I know, right? Lol, those guys probably want for NA to be skill-based. Let them eat musket salvo instead.

Edited November 19, 2018 by vazco

[admin]

I wanted to add more dynamism for boarding and allow captains to resolve the boarding quicker against defensive or last click boarders.
I did not like the low casualties from grenades cannons and muskets (sometimes they felt useless). 
You had 250-300 muskets on a first rate it felt silly to kill such low number of people in a volley from 50 meters
 

We have interesting good long term ideas on marines and muskets (as equitable items instead of %) 
Thus the variety of muskets and their strength. I think they were nerfed one more time today patch. 

We also plan to update the deck guns and grenades.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, admin said:

I wanted to add more dynamism for boarding and allow captains to resolve the boarding quicker against defensive or last click boarders.
I did not like the low casualties from grenades cannons and muskets (sometimes they felt useless). 
You had 250-300 muskets on a first rate it felt silly to kill such low number of people in a volley from 50 meters
 

We have interesting good long term ideas on marines and muskets (as equitable items instead of %) 
Thus the variety of muskets and their strength. I think they were nerfed one more time today patch. 

Dynamism for boarding? How about dynamism for ship combat, because ram upwind boarding followed by 1 click naval action is a boring drag.

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Rabman said:

They are perms and not easy to farm up, sink the boat and lose the perm. If you are unsure if the enemy has a boarding fit, do not get boarded. If you can't avoid getting boarded and do not have your prep up or at least mods to counter boarding you were going to lose with or without the new musket perms. Marines, 5 rings, is almost enough to beat anyone in boarding who is not boarding fit and they are knowledge that can never be lost.

The one I want to test is "Boarding Pikes" and see if it stacks with Axes' (or what ever it's called now) so to see if you disengage in one round.  

2 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

They don't matter, until the pro player gets their ego all hurt loses their ship.

Sounds like a few Pro's (or want to be's) got handed by folks using actual mods now?

31 minutes ago, admin said:

I wanted to add more dynamism for boarding and allow captains to resolve the boarding quicker against defensive or last click boarders.
I did not like the low casualties from grenades cannons and muskets (sometimes they felt useless). 
You had 250-300 muskets on a first rate it felt silly to kill such low number of people in a volley from 50 meters
 

We have interesting good long term ideas on marines and muskets (as equitable items instead of %) 
Thus the variety of muskets and their strength. I think they were nerfed one more time today patch. 

We also plan to update the deck guns and grenades.

To be honest the meta was lfor a good while:  Attack wait for them to defend and last moment deck guns.  Now there is more other options. In the past my builds where normally:  Marines, Muskets and Barricades (before the attack penality) and I would destroy folks with that mainly cause 9 times out of 10 they didn't have boarding mods and had zero prep even though I was pitting them for a board.   As I stated above most the time I seen recently some one got slaughted fast was the fact they had zero board mods vs some one that had them and they had zero prep verse some one that has full prep ready to go.  The other thing is if the ship has more crew than the other you tend to loose a lot of crew going against a boarder with 100 crew or more than you and you have no defensive mods.

 

[HachiRoku]

40 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Dynamism for boarding? How about dynamism for ship combat, because ram upwind boarding followed by 1 click naval action is a boring drag.

Tbf it's not that difficult to avoid getting boarded unless you are ganked. If you do get ganked there is no difference in the way you die

[HachiRoku]

That been said boarding mods have always been a bit over the top if you ask me. If you take marines against a non boarding modded ship you already have a huge advantage. Anything more than that advantage is just a joke. One cannot even begin to compare a fully boarding outfitted ship in a boarding vs shop ship and a 5/5 ship in combat vs shop ship. 

A really good player(shop ship)  could maybe defeat your average Joe in a 5/5 ship with tactics. 

A really good player(no Mods)  cannot beat a retard that knows the basics with full boarding mods in boarding. 

In the end boarding lacks tactical depth. 

I know this topic is not about mods but it always ends up being about mods right. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by HachiRoku

[Havelock]

1 hour ago, admin said:

I wanted to add more dynamism for boarding and allow captains to resolve the boarding quicker against defensive or last click boarders.

 

But why add an upgrade then which gives so insane bonuses? Why not increase casualties in boarding overall?

Imo boarding should never be the first option. When you board an enemy with same crew, it should not be possible to win in the same boarding if both parties chose the correct means of attack and defense. To win a boarding, one should decrew his enemy by superior maneuvering or disabling. The benefit of boarding mods would then mean that you need to kill less crew before going into a decisive boarding action.

[Slim McSauce]

7 minutes ago, Rickard said:

any updates on the new boarding mechanic? the pictures you teased were very promising.

yes dont leave us in the dark we want to see what the team is working on

[Gregory Rainsborough]

5 hours ago, admin said:

I wanted to add more dynamism for boarding and allow captains to resolve the boarding quicker against defensive or last click boarders.
I did not like the low casualties from grenades cannons and muskets (sometimes they felt useless). 
You had 250-300 muskets on a first rate it felt silly to kill such low number of people in a volley from 50 meters
 

We have interesting good long term ideas on marines and muskets (as equitable items instead of %) 
Thus the variety of muskets and their strength. I think they were nerfed one more time today patch. 

We also plan to update the deck guns and grenades.

What's wrong with last click boarders? People should stop being idiots when boarding.

[Barbancourt]

Make boarding "blind".  We shouldn't be playing rock-paper-scissors and ping FTW.