Patch XX - AI combat and maneuvers, boarding behavior, NPC locations and travel routes and all other NPC feedback issues

[Kilo60]

1 minute ago, BuckleUpBones said:

>NPC locations<, from a British perspective.

 

Most 7^th and 6^th rate NPCs are no longer in range of new players, which are the very NPCs that are needed! Expect Bahamas bordering nations, for other nations, they have to travel through another enemy nation to get to the Bahamas, so therefore they're at an disadvantage.   

 

It’s all ass-about-face, the very NPCs that new players need are the most further away and the next tier of skill, of NPCs, 5th, 4th and 3rd's, are nearby.

 

Though the “Melting Pot” syndrome is by design, it’s not supporting/helping new players learning the game at an NPC level, outside the Bahamas area.  

 

+1

[SnovaZdorowa]

Тут появилось немного новых игроков в РИ, так вот никто так  и не может сообразить, где им можно прокачаться хоть немного. Их респит в Шроуд Кай, там пвп столпотворение через день и стремно. Куда им ехать?

Напомню, было достаточно иметь ОДИН порт, в ЛЮБОМ месте, чтобы новые игроки могли как-то добыть себе экспы.
Да, нации со столицами имеют какие-то там миски, но РИ, полякам и пруссам как быть-то? Качаться в англии? Искать порт где худо-бедно ходит непись 6-7 ранга и захватывать его? Безусловно, мысль по распределению флотиков, чтобы как-то выковыривать людей из реинфорса верная, но взрывной волной новичков накрыло капитально. Дайте им пока флаг что ли в качестве костылика, хотя бы человек до 300 экипажа.

[Sir Loorkon]

If you attack a bigger AI fleet, you have a nearly constant rudder damage. That is annoying. 

AI have allmost marines and preparation. That is annoying, too.

I like the idea of AI traders with escorts. Maybe we can have that, esp. when the trader has some valuable goods?

[LIONOFWALES]

-Please adjust the NPC routes so they don't run through the land.

-Please make more unrated or 7th and 6th rated warships sail closer to Capitol Ports.

-Please look at the NPC super powerful boarding... for new players getting into boarding with NPC usually means death unless they have Boarding parties and Marines, and plan last second always.

-Please bring back the protected trader fleets, especially with La Gros Venture, these fleets were fun to attack and required a newer player to plan more regarding how to take the trade ship and escape with it. Traders Brigs I feel are fine as they are... no fleet, but the larger traders I feel should have the better goods and be more challenging to take, this could be incorporated by adding a couple good ships for escort, say 5th rates at least, with an occasional 4th rate escort ship. These Trader fleets should take a couple newer players to defeat, thus encouraging the player to either get good to get the better rewards, or get friends to help in taking said traders fleet.

-Angles on NPC cannons are crazy, they have been for some time now, please fix this, sometimes it appears that the cannon balls are shooting through the NPC own hull.

-Make NPC ships sail more logicly through the wind, sometimes they try to follow at directly into the wind allowing the player to escape, when the NPC simply adjusting to gain a little more wind would deny the escape for the player and result in destruction.

-Perhaps guaranty a few Reals or Dabloons  as loot for taking 4th rates on up, as by boarding of course, if the ship is sunk, then how can one loot the stuff that already sank, unless one has divers aboard? Assuradly the ships crew had some money on it, or the officers at least, or is this compensated through the after battle rewards in open world right after battle closes?

-Please change the game so that when a trader attacks NPC warship, the Warship does not just shoot at rigging with chain shot, La Gros Venture Refit causes this to happen if using for a mission or attacking NPC warship in open world, any other trader type will cause the same effect. At least this is my experience.

Well that's all that came to mind, I hope my feedback is helpful to you.

Sail safe and sail well.

 

[Sir Loorkon]

...I forgot something in my post above because I get so much used to it: AI sailing through land. It gives such an unrealistic impression and hurts the eyes.

[Thonys]

Subject combat maneuvering.(and result)

Did a battle with a constitution[HF] cagar-wo against a pavel ai (mission 4th rate sinking 2 rate)

the average battle speed was around 5.6 - 6.9 (full sail) (for picking up speed was slow[too much  heavy])

it needs a little buff from 6.0 to 7.9 ((average battle speed)) (it was painfully slow [ battle speed with the battle sail was also undoable] )

 

also, the angle Where the ai could hit the hull was on the high side  (i did not get the time to avoid damage with angling by turning the ships,.. turning was to slow overall, caused by slow speed and turning.

 

 

feeling was ... painfully slow battle...

it was feeling like a third/2-rate battle.(especially if you look for the edges against the wind for a few degrees)

 

the average speeds of all ships seem to go down by all the buffs and nerfs, overall in general...caused by all the balancing interventions

let's be aware that, 

the game speed continues to deteriorate due to all balance changes, let us ensure that this is not the intention

 

 

 

perhaps other subject, but

also , i would like to see in the info what kind of guns the ship has (badly needed)

i am not interested in cargo slots and pump, i need to see my type of guns

 

also the rewards were admirable( 2646 reaals) [no loot from the ship because of the bad constitution angle against the wind]

used about 50 hull repairs wat is also 50x40realls=2000 reeals profit=646 reaals for doing a dangerous mission (battle reward not mission reward)

mission reward was 116 ballons sent to my chest,for the mission chest i did not see what i got from it but it seemed basic grenades

and for the Xp well.... that s  down the drain... 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Thonys

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

NPC need to shoot at all ranges. The 50m range seems to make them stop shooting ( so player will keep side by side keeping distance and killing the NPC without a reply ). This has been around forever. IMO this fix alone would raise the bar regarding NPC challenge.

Second, add behavior that if the shots to hull angle is too accute the NPC will select to shoot at masts.

[NavalActionPlayer]

I remember in the olden days that 'enemy' AI did tag and attack players. It was always scary to see ANY sail on the horizon whether player OR NPC that was not of your own nation. One had to take some circuitous routes as a trader to avoid the AI :). The upside was more combat even if 'PVE'. The downside was more combat! On balance I enjoyed having the challenge of dealing with the AI. Others had a different view, in particular that it caused delay on voyages and that, in many cases, it was easy to run away from the AI. Personally I'd bring it back.

In the current patch I kind of like that the AI tends to sail closer to home, meaning we have to go out to find them. Others have pointed out that a better mix of ships in a fleet is needed wherever they are sailing. It's just plan wrong to see a bunch 1st rates sailing together without at lease some frigates escorting.

Stop the sailing through land e.g. Bensalem. That's been a problem for years and years!

Escorted AI traders are needed.

Stop the 'cheats' for the AI or at least make them more 'reasonable'.

[Lovec1990]

55 minutes ago, NavalActionPlayer said:

Stop the sailing through land e.g. Bensalem. That's been a problem for years and years!

 

no thats running gag it should stay

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

On 11/12/2018 at 5:02 PM, Barbancourt said:

AI traders should stop being passive loot pinatas and instead always have a potent warship escort consistent with the value of their cargo.  They should come in fleets instead of single ships, and they should also be aggressive, instead of sailing passively like they don't care. 

 

Yes and No.

Single ships are meant for beginners. It's them they are attacking first and growing in game by doing this. If single traders would all have armed escorts, newbies would have much more reason to fill overpowered and get frustrated.

So, some of them maybe get escorted. Not all.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Community on PvE Peace Server seems to agree upon the impression AI has been improved in performance lately. They are getting more humanlike: idiot captains, average captains and genius-almost-PvP-player captains. Just like us, I may add. That is great if the observation is true. But it's just a sum of subjective impressions and devs know better. If we just imagine this to be, it can be scored as successful programming as well.

This thing about AI sailing through land does not bother me any more. I regard it as compromise to game performance. Much more complicated routing for NPC would mean more need of calculations for more than thousand fleets and game performance suffering, I think. So if we have to chose game performance or AI sailing through land, the latter is obviously preferable.

Critics:

- traders should not have marines on them. Marines are for the navy only. Actually private business owned ships such as merchants should be considered poorly equipped most of the time because of cost factors. So marines are not correct. And making it harder for new players to take those crucial first captures. Indiamen may have them though, as they are run by West India Companies who employ their own military, thus marines are in order.

- if AI ships have stern chaser slots, you will see them firing in battle from there, but after you capture the ship, you will always find there are no cannons mounted as stern chasers.

- all NPC ships are unaware of the circle-of-death in patrol mission battle and will sail outside. Means an exploit by the player who can lure them out for getting an easy kill. Even worse with traders, because they will just flee as always and perish out of the circle.

- I tend to see the incredible advantages of AI ships in battle, like firing angles and turnrates mentioned by other commentators already, as compensation for our advantage, which is the ability to repair. Still, it's strange to see them perform wonders. Maybe give them (unbuffed) repair opportunity as well instead?

- if AI ships find themselves in hopeless fight, give them a decision to flee (for warships that is), triggered by something. Like, when most of their buddies have been sunk. Or when player ships are much larger and stronger from the beginning (SOLs versus small frigates and such, who would dare fight this out?). It would look better as simulation of a survival instinct instead of pointless heroism.

- the need of 25 ship fleets for clan activities has been discussed elsewhere at length.

[Kilo60]

I agree AI traders shouldn't have marines and be as tough to board as a warship!

Not to mention they often fight almost to the last man even when outnumbered 200 to 5!

Edited November 14, 2018 by Kilo60

[Barbancourt]

12 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

 

Single ships are meant for beginners.

Then those ships should not carry enough loot or XP to interest non-beginners.  An unescorted LGV should not be more lucrative than a Pickle or Privateer, since it puts up less of a fight. 

 

[Capn Rocko]

I think most of the in-battle AI issues have been mentioned already by @Polish Privateer and others. But I would like to provide an example of me sinking due to AI friendly fire: 

In the poorly illustrated picture below, I had been fighting an enemy for about 20 minutes and the right side of my ship was at 0 HP but my left side was close to 100% HP. I decided bring my strong side (left side of ship) next to the enemy to exchange broadsides in hopes of getting a DPS victory. All of a sudden, my friendly AI ship started shooting at my weak side because I was blocking it's line of sight to the enemy. By the time the AI had brought my structure HP below 50%, the enemy's penetrating shots were able to finish me off. It would have been a close battle without the friendly AI shooting at me, but since I was a victim of friendly fire, I had no chance at winning the fight. 

 

[Barbancourt]

15 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

@Polish Privateer

It would have been a close battle without the friendly AI shooting at me, but since I was a victim of friendly fire, I had no chance at winning the figh

 

My fleet AI started stern raking me as I was boarding an enemy ship last night.  😕  Fortunately I was very diligent with decrewing it before I boarded.

[Capn Rocko]

On another note: I have always been annoyed with how the enemy AI handles in combat. From what I have gathered, the AI is programmed to shoot 1 broadside then immediately turn to shoot the opposite broadside. In theory, there is nothing wrong with that; it is the strategy that most players use. However, this usually results in the player (me) chasing the AI in circles for 5 minutes. I think that the AI should be programmed to turn back and fire the original broadside once it has reloaded to prevent getting stuck sailing in circles. 

Also, the friendly AI is useless 90% of the time in PvP battles. Once the enemy player starts sailing in one direction, the AI will chase for a short period of time, then turn to stern rake from 1000 meters, then proceed to tack the wind and repeat. After it does this a few times, the AI is far in the distance and takes 10-15 minutes to catch back up. I use this to my advantage when fighting enemy players who have AI. I just run one direction for 5 minutes, then turn to fight and the AI never catches up. On the other hand, it is very annoying when this happens to your own friendly AI.

[Kilo60]

25 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

On another note: I have always been annoyed with how the enemy AI handles in combat. From what I have gathered, the AI is programmed to shoot 1 broadside then immediately turn to shoot the opposite broadside. In theory, there is nothing wrong with that; it is the strategy that most players use. However, this usually results in the player (me) chasing the AI in circles for 5 minutes. I think that the AI should be programmed to turn back and fire the original broadside once it has reloaded to prevent getting stuck sailing in circles. 

Also, the friendly AI is useless 90% of the time in PvP battles. Once the enemy player starts sailing in one direction, the AI will chase for a short period of time, then turn to stern rake from 1000 meters, then proceed to tack the wind and repeat. After it does this a few times, the AI is far in the distance and takes 10-15 minutes to catch back up. I use this to my advantage when fighting enemy players who have AI. I just run one direction for 5 minutes, then turn to fight and the AI never catches up. On the other hand, it is very annoying when this happens to your own friendly AI.

Not much incentive to use a fleet perk based on all the bad friendly AI I have seen in battle myself and posted here!!!

 

Not to mention they now automatically spawn an extra enemy ship in Kill missions which only makes the mission harder when dragging a friendly AI into the fight instead of making it easier like it should be!

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Capn Rocko said:

On another note: I have always been annoyed with how the enemy AI handles in combat. From what I have gathered, the AI is programmed to shoot 1 broadside then immediately turn to shoot the opposite broadside. In theory, there is nothing wrong with that; it is the strategy that most players use.

It is?  I never spin in circles like the AI does. 

[Traven Mercer]

It has been touched on here but I would like to see more diversity in AI fleet makeups. Instead of a 1st rate plus 10 1-2nd rates. why not have fleets comprised of various sizes. IE a 1st rate with a third rate, 3 5ths and 2 6ths.  would be fun for clans and groups with newer players as they can meaningfully contribute to combat as well.

I would also like to see the patrol zones with rate limits AI traffic better reflect that limit.  why limit to a 4th rate when its only 1-2nd rate AI sailing around?

And more traffic in the patrol zones as well please, Sailing for 40 mins not seeing a single AI and 7 other players all looking for the same thing does not = fun.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Traven Mercer

[Kilo60]

On 11/13/2018 at 1:28 AM, Sir Loorkon said:

If you attack a bigger AI fleet, you have a nearly constant rudder damage. That is annoying. 

AI have allmost marines and preparation. That is annoying, too.

I like the idea of AI traders with escorts. Maybe we can have that, esp. when the trader has some valuable goods?

I can agree on the rudder damage when fighting ai ships now...  Its promarily because the ai is super accurate at stern hitting a player ship from ridiculous far distances and when making hard turns.  The ai used to miss more than half of their stern shots and now they hit with almost every cannon ball!

 

The valuable AI traders having escorts would be an exploit as players would only attack those ships in OW.  The whole point of attacking traders is you have no idea if they have any valuable goods until you board or sink them and can check their hold!

Historically, in the Caribbean most of the trader ships that had escorts were carrying vital war supplies and provisions for a fleet or army and did not have anything of monetary value. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Kilo60

[Barbancourt]

On 11/16/2018 at 9:31 AM, Kilo60 said:

 

The valuable AI traders having escorts would be an exploit as players would only attack those ships in OW.  The whole point of attacking traders is you have no idea if they have any valuable goods until you board or sink them and can check their hold!

AI Trader ships should all have escorts.  If you want the big loot you should have to attack the loot pinata LGV with fleet, and roll the dice on what those fleet ships are.  Maybe they're 3 Indefatigables. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Barbancourt

[n_Ka]

NPC ship travel again, in the middle of the land.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Funny you ask so much about AI sailing the OW through land but very little asking for:

- AI to shoot at whatever distance ( you can hug a AI and it won't shoot back )

- AI to also perform defensive sailing ( angling ) instead of sailing alongside you and just eating broadsides without answering back

You know, stuff that really matter a lot.

Anyway I suggest all AI to have 1 repair cycle to make them a tad more challenging ( war and peace servers ).

I suggest they also vary their broadside target, from hull to mast, depending on angles. Put some pressure on the player. In the end all the PvE will be more of a practice rather than a mindless grind.

[staun]

Isent that to compare 2 different things. Admin allready have said AI sailing trough land is a fail and will be changed before release. The second is about how AI should work in combat. Would be interesting if they actually would be better than real players to se how that would work out.

[Kilo60]

4 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Funny you ask so much about AI sailing the OW through land but very little asking for:

- AI to shoot at whatever distance ( you can hug a AI and it won't shoot back )

- AI to also perform defensive sailing ( angling ) instead of sailing alongside you and just eating broadsides without answering back

You know, stuff that really matter a lot.

Anyway I suggest all AI to have 1 repair cycle to make them a tad more challenging ( war and peace servers ).

I suggest they also vary their broadside target, from hull to mast, depending on angles. Put some pressure on the player. In the end all the PvE will be more of a practice rather than a mindless grind.

You must be fighting completely different AI than I....!

They angle like bastards now and never let you go hull to hull making it a game of never ending circles where they point their bows right into your sides...

 

Please no repair cycles for AI as it would just cost players more in repairs in response.  As it is now PvE and Kill mission rewards are so low if you wind up using repairs you lose money by fighting them!

If you want the AI fights more challenging make it so the player and AI can't use repairs in combat!