Operations: Welcome to the Caribbean - suggestions

[Mr Pellew]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

La Tortue and Tumbado gives the player joining USA the bigger chance to start experiencing pvp and action. Its just the nature of their coast. 
Sub missions can be given to a player for this long sail.  Remember that when he has an outpost in one of those ports - he can cover 2/3rds of the caribbean in under by transportation between those outposts. We have to guide them to do this. 

Don't get me wrong here. I like the idea of free town outposts and if there are missions for under way that keep it interesting I am all for it.

I still think shroud is the best outpost for all new players to get. As I mentioned above the Bahamas are the most equal playing ground a new player can find now despite hercs and requins. If they were not in shallows it would be very very equal playing ground.

This reduces frustartion in the beginning and keeps people playing. I saw many leave due to pure frustration of being killed in their 5th rate by a bellona they have virtually no chance agains. If you get killed Rattlesnake vs Rattlesnake it si a lot less frustrating in my opinion.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mr Pellew

[Mr Pellew]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

La Tortue and Tumbado gives the player joining USA the bigger chance to start experiencing pvp and action. Its just the nature of their coast. 
Sub missions can be given to a player for this long sail.  Remember that when he has an outpost in one of those ports - he can cover 2/3rds of the caribbean in under by transportation between those outposts. We have to guide them to do this. 

Don't get me wrong here. I like the idea of free town outposts and if there are missions for under way that keep it interesting I am all for it.

I still think shroud is the best outpost for all new players to get. As I mentioned above the Bahamas are the most equal playing ground a new player can find now despite hercs and requins. If they were not in shallows it would be very very equal playing ground.

This reduces frustartion in the beginning and keeps people playing. I saw many leave due to pure frustration of being killed in their 5th rate by a bellona they have virtually no chance agains. If you get killed Rattlesnake vs Rattlesnake it si a lot less frustrating in my opinion.

Edit: Internet seems laggy. someone please delete this. Can't do it myself. it is already posted above

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mr Pellew

[Havelock]

These operations are good as they are! Warriors will be born instead of another army of carebears.

• Come on guys, 2k damage? With medium cannons, 5 broadsides of a Snow have 2200 potential damage, 3 broadsides of a Surprise 2460. You think a new player cant even fire 3 decent broadsides?
• 5 PvP assists, easily done in any coastguard action or patrol event.
• Port battle, this one is a bit tricky of course. Help your newbies by taking them into a shallow PB, theyre cheap, teach the mechanic and are generally fun and chaotic.

I still remember the first time i went out for solo PvP, holy shit that was stressful. I only get that thrill from a very demanding duel these days. Making new players experience that thrill early is a gift, not a burden!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Havelock

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Havelock said:

These operations are good as they are! Warriors will be born instead of another army of carebears.

• Come on guys, 2k damage? With medium cannons, 5 broadsides of a Snow have 2200 potential damage, 3 broadsides of a Surprise 2460. You think a new player cant even fire 3 decent broadsides?
• 5 PvP assists, easily done in any coastguard action or patrol event.
• Port battle, this one is a bit tricky of course. Help your newbies by taking them into a shallow PB, theyre cheap, teach the mechanic and are generally fun and chaotic.

I still remember the first time i went out for solo PvP, holy shit that was stressful. I only get that thrill from a very demanding duel these days. Making ew players experience that thrill early is a gift, not a burden!

you missed the point of the criticism. Sending new players into suicidal situations is not gifting them with treasured experience, its setting them up for failure.

Forcing clans to take in new players isnt a gift, its a burden

everything is well and good except these two things which will turn this whole idea into a pure disaster. I'm not kidding.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Mr Pellew]

2 minutes ago, Havelock said:

These operations are good as they are! Warriors will be born instead of another army of carebears.

• Come on guys, 2k damage? With medium cannons, 5 broadsides of a Snow have 2200 potential damage, 3 broadsides of a Surprise 2460. You think a new player cant even fire 3 decent broadsides?
• 5 PvP assists, easily done in any coastguard action or patrol event.
• Port battle, this one is a bit tricky of course. Help your newbies by taking them into a shallow PB, theyre cheap, teach the mechanic and are generally fun and chaotic.

I still remember the first time i went out for solo PvP, holy shit that was stressful. I only get that thrill from a very demanding duel these days. Making ew players experience that thrill early is a gift, not a burden!

The only issue I have with that mission is sending people to an enemy safezone. Send them to the PvP zone or somewhere else but not enemy safezone.

And I agree that thrill is great. As well as the adrenalin you get from a challinging first PvP fight

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mr Pellew

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, Havelock said:

These operations are good as they are! Warriors will be born instead of another army of carebears

You cannot make wolves out of sheep 

[Mr Pellew]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

You cannot make wolves out of sheep 

How many people have you heard saying they would PvP when they are finished training/grinding. Problem is by the time they are done grinding it's to late for most to get into PvP. Encouraging PvP early is way better in my opinion even if many go back to PvE after it.

[Havelock]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

You cannot make wolves out of sheep 

Theres many wolves out there who just think theyre sheep. This operation will tell em!

 

2 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

The only issue I have with that mission is sending people to an enemy safezone. Send them to the PvP zone or somewhere else but not enemy safezone.

Sinking is part of the game, theyll better learn it right away and accept it as a given concept of this game.

 

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Forcing clans to take in new players isnt a gift, its a burden

Nobody forces you to do shit man. I will gladly help out new players and make resilient fighters out of them and they will go to PvP with me. You can build a fence around your clan and do your thing.

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

you missed the point of the criticism. Sending new players into suicidal situations is not gifting them with treasured experience, its setting them up for failure.

Experiencing the loss - is extremely important for understanding that loss does not matter..
It all depends on reward. 

[Palatinose]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You cannot make wolves out of sheep 

When a player steps in, he's neither wolf nor sheep. If you let them discover the game on their own most will ask in nation chat where they will (mostly) read: stay in safe zone, trade for money, grind a bit. All the boring stuff that consumes time, but doesn't give thrill. 

I like this, even the enemy safezone part. Show newbies mechanics. 2k damage is nafing.

Perhaps we get newby PBs, CHAOS AND ANARCHY whoop whoop!

[Slim McSauce]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

Experiencing the loss - is extremely important for understanding that loss does not matter..
It all depends on reward. 

experiencing the lose you set up for them, not on their own mistake but by your accord are you sinking these newbies in the worse way through straight up ganks in reinforcement zones with players swarming them. Nope, nothing you say will change my mind on this, I do not approve or condone of this part of the suggestion. Everything else is good, this is not. Find another way to do it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Mr Pellew]

Just now, Havelock said:

Sinking is part of the game, theyll better learn it right away and accept it as a given concept of this game.

Don't you think they will die if they go to the PvP zone. I am 100% sure they will. Sinking comes with PvP I know that very well BUT in my opinion sinking to a 5 bellona gank squad in your frigate frustrates you and makes you feel like PvP is pointless. Sinking in a 5th rate 1v1 even if you get abused and sunk withing 10 minutes shows you how much you have to learn and makes you wanna fight more and get better. 

 

3 minutes ago, Havelock said:

Nobody forces you to do shit man. I will gladly help out new players and make resilient fighters out of them and they will go to PvP with me. You can build a fence around your clan and do your thing.

I will also gladly help out any new player BUT I've seen there is only a certain ammount of new players a clan can take. Example brit clan ARMED. they gre by abut 100 players in less than a month. It was pure chaos in the clan. They might as well not have been a clan as there was no structure or organisation. I myself can probably take care of 1-2 new players at a time. Being on top of the leaderboard and taking most people who apply is in no way sustainable for us. 

What I'm saying is my issiue is not with getting new players into clans but there only being a selection of 10 clans if they have to be leaderboard clans. 

[Mr Pellew]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

Experiencing the loss - is extremely important for understanding that loss does not matter..
It all depends on reward. 

Same point as I brought up to Havelock. A new player WILL sink in PvP no matter where you send him.

You yourself say it's all about the reward. It is rewarding to loose a 5th rate fight if you learn something or get a thrill from it. You get rewarded with frustration going to an enemy capital and being ganked without having a chance.

My point is: Send them to the PvP zone instead of enemy safezone. They will die but they will have a more pleasent experiance doing it. 

Yes they will achive the mission because 2k dmg is very very little BUT why should they ever do it again if it was a frustrating experiance which will not give a reward if they do it again?  

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mr Pellew
Spelling mistakes

[Havelock]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

Same point as I brought up to Havelock. A new player WILL sink in PvP no matter where you send him.

You yourself say it's all about the reward. It is rewarding to loose a 5th rate fight if you learn something or get a thrill from it. You get rewarded with frustration going to an enemy capital and being ganked without having a chance.

My point is. Send them to the PvP zone instead of enemy safezone. They will die but htey will have a more pleasent experiance doing it.

Have to agree, patrol zone is a better option.

[tipsypo]

1 hour ago, admin said:

This sounds bad to you because you think this decision is forced upon you. For the new player it will be a blessing if that clan requirement is given them in right way and with the right wording. 

What you don't understand is that player who does not find friends or fleet to sail with drops from the game extremely fast. We will guide them to fun by gentle touch.

I am looking at this from a (roughly) new player perspective. I've not played since 2016 and am starting from scratch in the game as a new character. Because of the many changes made in that time there is much I am needing to learn from scratch now also. It does sound forced on me you are right and does not sound much of a blessing at the moment, I understand the benefit gained through joining clans, but its not for me at the moment.

Back then I did not drop out extremely fast either because I was not in some clan. I made acquaintances to sail with. I participated in some port battles also. I managed to get far enough to crew the Trincomalee and stock up on some good gear. But I did this without actually needing to join the clans. Just cooperated with them. Being a member of the clans that were around did not appeal to me then. And unless the right clan for me gets created I'm not going to want to join one now either.

Granted as I say the game has changed much since then so maybe achieving the same again is not possible now without a clan?

I dropped out in the end more due to the distances needed to sail without anything to do. The long distances and time required to sail to various places I did not consider a problem in itself but rather the problem being that during that time you have nothing to do other than play "spin the camera around the ship", play "convert the fish", chat in the tavern or go AFK. That just got to much and ate too much time doing nothing.

The tutorial that you have already made (thought that was great when I went on it last week by the way). That was indeed an gentle touch that guided me again. But that does not restrict new players from using specific features of the game before completion does it? Rather that incentivises the new player to go on it (and then be guided) with the offer of reward (resources/ships) that give the player a leg up on their start into the game.

Why not give a similar incentive for joining their first clan rather than restricting features from them?

You have the vision and the knowledge of the games background workings and plans. So will take your word for it. But I'm just giving you my take. And sorry I would personally at the moment do as the other posters suggest above and either join some clan just to then leave them or else (as you suggest) grind the resources to eventually make my own "clan" to sit in.

55 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Also just give each nation a beginner clan that uses that nations initials, that will be the new play help channel 

That sounds acceptable to me. I do want to support the nation, not some random clan. So would be happy to sit in a national clan of sorts until the moment that I found somewhere that I did want to join and was ready to do so.

Edited November 6, 2018 by tipsypo

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, admin said:

 

• Join the clan from the leaderboard (forced requirement - operation will not complete if this )

I guess that will be the most controversial requirement. In the one hand a clan makes everything much easier (access to ships, missions etc) but in the other hand there are a lot of people that see a clan as punishment. But clans are essential for teaching and and allow a much better time distribution towards all kind of activities.

The welcome task look all very good and show all kind of basic skills that are needed. Capture/ repair etc can all be done on the way to establish an outpost at LT. (So I don't know why some call sailing to LT boring. It's only boring because you want it to be boring)

A few additional activities on that route could be fishing maybe a one time 100% chance to catch a bottle and a task to sell the fish at LT and capture a trader and loot the wreck.

[Grundgemunkey]

on first read .. i though wtf ..hows a new player going to  achieve all that ... however ,,, it could work if you broke it all down into segements which were linked to rank

so rather than just gain xp to gain rank you had to complete certain missions as well  that dont unlock until you have the required xp

for instance ..

Attack an enemy player in enemy capital waters and inflict 2000 damage in one battle,Gain 5 PVP assists required for promotion to commodore  but the missions dont unlock ubtil you have reasched flag captain

the join a clan and take part in a port battle ... may be rquirements to move from commodore to rear admiral ....

maybe this will make a rank in the game meaningful other than you have just grinded  an amount of xp  in solo missions if the safe zone

so in essence tailor these missions around rank and promotion ...

ps @admin why when you make a thread like this for ideas and suggestions ...do you  then proceed to tell everyone who is critical of your original suggestion they are wrong ??? not a criticism in its self just an observation

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Personally, and as someone that takes time before joining a group in all games I play - i tend to make my homework, have a feeling of how different groups work, by joining a few sessions with each I choose might be worthy for me, etc - being mandatory to join a clan may not be the best approach, especially just by looking at stats.

What would be okay though would be to promote operations that bring the players to play along members of a clan. To promote the multiplayer, to bring players together and eventually open up interest to said player to carry on playing with those groups.

This could be done the opposite way. Being, instead of leading new cadets to join a clan, to actually design the system to have clans offer themselves open to accept cadets to their operations - like a patrol zone squadron, or a Trade Convoy escort, or a PvP Mission ( when it comes ) - so cadets see the open slots and apply to them IF they want.

Obviously, that specific task can only be completed by joining as a "cadet for that mission"; but having an entire operation based on the assumption of forcing to join the clan doesn't feel right...

The rest of the ideas seem nice.

I would even add, as an extra, a internal clan pvp leaderboard so the members can compete against each other for fun ( and slit each other' throats ).

[admin]

16 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

ps @admin why when you make a thread like this for ideas and suggestions ...do you  then proceed to tell everyone who is critical of your original suggestion they are wrong ??? not a criticism in its self just an observation

This is a forum.. You say something is wrong.. and if somebody has a different opinion you will get the same in return. It was always like this and will be.  But Lets be honest.. There are great replies here with real suggestions. The rest were just repeating the same thing over an over.
Some did not bother even proposing anything asking empty air questions like "is this for real"
 

Now.

Make this post useful!

2 hours ago, admin said:

Propose interesting missions and rewards. We are very interested in your input and ideas. 

 

[Mr Pellew]

11 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I guess that will be the most controversial requirement. In the one hand a clan makes everything much easier (access to ships, missions etc) but in the other hand there are a lot of people that see a clan as punishment. But clans are essential for teaching and and allow a much better time distribution towards all kind of activities.

The welcome task look all very good and show all kind of basic skills that are needed. Capture/ repair etc can all be done on the way to establish an outpost at LT. (So I don't know why some call sailing to LT boring. It's only boring because you want it to be boring)

A few additional activities on that route could be fishing maybe a one time 100% chance to catch a bottle and a task to sell the fish at LT and capture a trader and loot the wreck.

For me a mission that tells me "Sail to LT and open an outpost" is boring. If you add stuff to the mission the player has to do on the way it would be ok in my opinion. I know some like long sails but I think the majority hates it. Saying it's boring becuase you want it to be boring is just wrong. The ONLY way to make that sail itheresting for me (speaking for myself with allmost 3k hrs in the game not a new player perspective) is if I would be guarateed to find PvP on the way. For a new player this might not be the case but showing them there is allways things to do should be the goal so they don't get bored by long sails withing their first few hrs of gameplay.

 

10 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

on first read .. i though wtf ..hows a new player going to  achieve all that ... however ,,, it could work if you broke it all down into segements which were linked to rank

so rather than just gain xp to gain rank you had to complete certain missions as well  that dont unlock until you have the required xp

for instance ..

Attack an enemy player in enemy capital waters and inflict 2000 damage in one battle,Gain 5 PVP assists required for promotion to commodore  but the missions dont unlock ubtil you have reasched flag captain

the join a clan and take part in a port battle ... may be rquirements to move from commodore to rear admiral ....

maybe this will make a rank in the game meaningful other than you have just grinded  an amount of xp  in solo missions if the safe zone

so in essence tailor these missions around rank and promotion ...

ps @admin why when you make a thread like this for ideas and suggestions ...do you  then proceed to tell everyone who is critical of your original suggestion they are wrong ??? not a criticism in its self just an observation

I like the idea of Grunge a lot. Make some of those missions bound to Ranks. The PB mission is perfect as a requirement to be promoted to Commodore.

I think the best way for thoe missions to work is if they are required for promotions while also giving nice rewards.

[Mr Pellew]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Propose interesting missions and rewards. We are very interested in your input and ideas. 

As I mentioned in my long post above. The best way to reward people especially in the beginning is ships in my opinion. Some of the missions are tailored towarde players loosing ships. Loosing ships is part of the game but with current prices it is also true that a 5th rate in costs absolutely nothing to craft. Especially in a clan. 

What @Grundgemunkey suggested above is a very very good idea in my opinion. Make some of those missions mandatory for rank promotions while handing out other rewards for them. 

Now you see a Max Rank player but they might have never PvPed and are a super easy fight and others are low rank and a tough nut to crack. By making ranks only achivable by compleating certain missions everyone can at least be sure a "Commodore" rank player has had some PvP fights. This would also help with RvR as taking people with no PvP experiance into PBs is usualy very high effort for the commander to allways look out for them. If we can see via rank who achived which missions we can guess what they know and don't know a lot better.

[z4ys]

7 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

For me a mission that tells me "Sail to LT and open an outpost" is boring. 

During the welcome task you have to capture a trader sell stuff repair. Many of them can be done on the way to LT. Maybe change location of selling goods to any town instead capital. So it's more of a flow.

[Rabman]

You could also add boarding objectives to this so the newbies don't feel they need ultra 5th rates or a lot of money to go out and PvP. 

Board and capture an LGV in a cutter

board and capture a 5th rate in a 5th/6th rate.

 

Also just to add on Day 1 of open world for me, I sailed from Charleston to La Tortue in my cutter.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rabman

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

5 pvp kills in what ship? Too hard for a new player

Establish a outpost ... cant you just give one or 2 free outposts? Its a basic cutter sail of several hours and quite boring tbh

Same with capital thing .. its a suicide mission how do you do that without money?

These things are too difficult for new players all in all

admiralty missions (all types)

I would assume this means if the dont get those 5 pvp kills he wont be able to choose patrol events or other "pvp related" events

[Mr Pellew]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Gain 5 PVP assists