Pvp Rewards

[William Death]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

But I'm also torn because this is also a perfect opportunity to capture and keep ships. Personally I'd rather have it where the ship is more valuable than the rewards. As @Tiedemann said, why sink a lineship when their value is in capturing and keeping it?

Well, the other day when I captured that Bucentaure in Kawazz's screenshot , I had zero intentions of keeping it unless it was 4/5 or better, or 3/5 with perfect mods equipped. That decision wouldn't change no matter how expensive they are to craft. Too much effort taking it back to port and I'd rather maybe get a half-decent amount of doubloons out of his hold (assuming RNG is kind to me) rather than get a mediocre ship and have to deal with getting it back to port. Then, when I capped it, I saw that it was WO/WO lol. Instant sink button for that garbage.

Comparing that to a few nights ago when I went hunting with two others, we boarded a Bellona (because none of our ships were in good enough condition to brawl him to a desirable conclusion). We had every intention of sinking him after the boarding too--its too much risk and effort to haul a ship back to port--however, his ship was 5/5 with one decent mod so we kept it and risked the sail back.

 

Fact is, no matter how much more perceived value there is in keeping a ship, it'll only happen when its convenient for the capturer and/or the ship is something super special.

I mean, look back to the various iterations of the game when there were no extra rewards for PvP (other than a 2x gold and xp). People still sunk ships. Part of that time we can lay the 'blame' on durabilities ("nobody wants a 1 dura 2nd rate"); but at another time, we had no PvP marks, only combat marks and yet we still sunk ships, even valuable ones. Why?

Multiple reasons, really. I know myself and others often sank ships just to be petty and spite the enemy. Another reason is that it is just so much more convenient to sink the ship, get whatever rewards you're gonna get and move on to the next target, rather than go out, have one battle, capture a ship and have to run it back to port. 

 

I'll leave the roleplaying privateering with capturing ships and spiriting the cargo back to port to those who enjoy that playstyle. I prefer longer cruises that give me enjoyable battles that don't always end in "rock/paper/barricades/last-second-defend (crap his ping is better than mine!)."

And, at the end of the day....I know that realistically I'll never use the majority of ships I'd capture. Wrong builds, don't like the ship, poor mod choices etc....and selling the ship is even more effort: getting it to a place it'll sell and waiting for someone to buy it.  

Or, if I wanted a disposable lineship, I'd just capture one from the AI (which you can now do).

 

I'm all for incentives to keep good ships, I think we have that (and really always have).

And I can even get behind moderately expensive lineships to promote the use of frigates and fourth rates. But at the moment, I think they're too expensive, keeping them out of the hands of casuals and limiting them only to the more "experienced" players. Fine on paper, but we have to remember that casuals make up the numbers of this game, and make good targets in their big ships too. But that's a discussion for another topic...

[Vernon Merrill]

Hold-based loot and rewards, in addition to the updated way goods and mats are delivered is the best thing thats happened to this game in quite some time....

The magic wallet and days of sitting in Capitals checking on contracts had to go!

Well done devs.  Good patch.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

It takes 9000 doubloons to craft an Ocean, why did you sink it!? 🤣

It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  Granted, it's definitely worth more than 81D, lol!

[Barbancourt]

24 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

 

The magic wallet and days of sitting in Capitals checking on contracts had to go!

 

I still have my magic wallet.  Did you misplace yours?

 

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

It takes 9000 doubloons to craft an Ocean, why did you sink it!? 🤣

Probably because no one had a fleet perk, which is why everyone should be able to take at least 1 ship to fleet without having to assign fleet perk.

[Vernon Merrill]

7 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

I still have my magic wallet.  Did you misplace yours?

 

apparently.

 

[Cecil Selous]

1 hour ago, William Death said:

I'm all for incentives to keep good ships, I think we have that (and really always have).

And that is the main dilemma with NA. That only a few wood combinations and few permanent mods are considered good ships that are useful. Even only 3/5 ships aren't worth to keep for some. Plus of course what Archaos said. You need one perk slot to capture and keep a ship if you don't want to lose your main ship.

We once could send captured ships to port. This was obviously abused to teleport ships. Maybe there is a way to get a similar mechanic back. For example you can only send it back to the last port you visited. But on the other hand this would make it again possible to evade enemies by tagging small AI and change ships. I bet sending home ships via AI in the OW is too much to ask regarding the max number of bots and server performance but it sounds so good. The big downside to that is the risk to lose your prize again is also way higher because of low crew number and stupid AI. Again big argument against apparently the value of capturing ships as the highest possible reward. So in the end you just sink them again and take the immediate reward, which is lower but therefor guarantied. This is tricky to balance. The devs have the idea of giving high value to the ships themselves. A large part of the playerbase just want higher monetary rewards for sinking ships.

 

EDIT: I don't know the content of explicitly pvp missions yet but they could be the way to higher rewards. Like you take one at the beginning of your day. Sink what you can sink and at the end of your day you claim the extra rewards from the admiralty for everything you could kill or capture that day. Doubloons according the the ships BR, rate, whatever. No missions for specific rates or ships. Rewards for everything that was a player. (Plus of course the standard rewards in battle)

EDIT 2: this is somehow just the same as increasing the normal rewards for pvp battles. Well, then just increase the rewards to a reasonable level

Edited November 5, 2018 by Cecil Selous

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

56 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Probably because no one had a fleet perk, which is why everyone should be able to take at least 1 ship to fleet without having to assign fleet perk.

It is a okay thing for Fleet 1 to be automatic, of couse balance with additional fleet slot ( 2 fleet ships ) costs 3 and the extra third costs 5 Fair and square IMO and would see a lot of capturing going on ( plus giving newcomer and veterans alike the opportunity to bring those fat traders back home ).

[PG Monkey]

I like the rng doubloons you never know what you're gonna get  And be careful who you sail with, some people dont like to share

[TheHaney]

2 minutes ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

And they should go into the hold, not the magic wallet. 

They do go into your hold; they're treated as regular cargo. You can't place them in your wallet until you're in port.

Generally me and my clan have adopted the tactic of just bringing any balloooooons we get back to port, pooling them together and splitting them up at that point. If I'm sailing with randoms generally I'll call out the total amount and take my share, if they're in range, or split in port if they are not.

Edited November 5, 2018 by TheHaney

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, PG Monkey said:

I like the rng doubloons you never know what you're gonna get  And be careful who you sail with, some people dont like to share

I have no problem with the RNG dubloons, but the issue is that you cannot prevent someone entering your battle to steal your loot and the solution that Admin proposed to allow green on green if certain conditions are met just will not work in practice.

RNG rewards feeds the gambler in a lot of people always hoping that the next one will be the jackpot.

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Hold based loot as in when you receive the reward/loot it stays in your hold is fine.

 

But do you agree that the RNG Dubloons being dropped into the hold of the sinking ship available to anyone to loot is fair to those doing the actual fighting??

 

I Don't.    The RNG dropped dubloons need to be split at the end of battle amongst the combatants... they should not have to be 'looted' to be received.   

 

Meh, the game needs "villains" too.....

 

[Teutonic]

@William Death

Without quoting your entire post, in general I agree with you in a number of things but disagree on others.

Your standard of only keeping a good ship is all well and good, but we aren't making the game for only your standards. Another person may enjoy taking that ship because they don't own a lot of lineships or they value the ship as more important than x/y/z.

I won't disagree that there are woods that a ship should not be made of, and even more so when it comes to lineships. But lets not forget that some woods that are percieved as bad are not actually bad at all. I remember how long it took to convince folks that te/wo was better than lo/wo (granted different patch and meta) and people just couldn't be convinced that they were losing to ships percieved as having inferior wood builds for port battles. Mods have, in most cases, always been more important than the wood type. Player ability has always topped any bonus or wood type a ship is.

Anyway, personally I am split 60/40 in favor of the current pvp rewards. I am against the loot reward RNG we have though and believe it really should be adjusted.

So many folks said they didn't pvp for the rewards but rather to crush their enemy, or for the thrill of it. So here we are, where the rewards aren't major and it seems a shift in opinion has happened.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Teutonic

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Teutonic said:

@William Death

Withoyt quoting your entire post, in general I agree with you in a number of things but disagree on others.

Your standard of only keeping a good ship is all well and good, but we aren't making the game for only your standards. Another person may enjoy taking that ship because they don't own a lot of lineships or they value the ship as more important than x/y/z.

I won't disagree that there are woods that a ship should not be made of, and even more so when it comes to lineships. But lets not forget that some woods that are percieved as bad are not actually bad at all. I remember how long it took to convince folks that te/wo was better than lo/wo (granted different patch and meta) and people just couldn't be convinced that they were losing to ships percieved as having inferior wood builds for port battles. 

Anyway, personally I am split 60/40 in favor of the current pvp rewards. I am against the loot reward RNG we have though and believe it really should be adjusted.

So many folks said they didn't pvp for the rewards but rather to crush their enemy, or for the thrill of it. So here we are, where the rewards aren't major and it seems a shift in opinion has happened.

only because the reward is required. If there was no reward period it wouldn't be a problem, but it's there so temptation to acquire is there because have>havenot

[William Death]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

only because the reward is required. If there was no reward period it wouldn't be a problem, but it's there so temptation to acquire is there because have>havenot

^This. 

In addition, lets remember that back in the "good old days" when we didn't have significant rewards for PvP (just the 2x modifier on xp and gold), we also didn't have anything that you needed any currency for. Everything could be bought, crafted, or traded for gold, labor hours, resources, or mid grade notes. 

So back then, it didn't matter what I did in PvP. Win, lose, board & capture, hull & sink, demast & leave,.....no matter what I chose to do, the rewards didn't matter.

Now the rewards matter. Because now we have modules that you need PvP marks and PvE marks (collectively, "doubloons") for. You need doubloons to craft some ships. You need doubloons to teleport. You need doubloons to function.

Two weeks ago, you needed PvP and Combat Marks to function. But you got enough from PvPing to satisfy those needs. You don't get enough doubloons from PvP to satisfy those needs unless RNG is exceptionally kind to you. 

The issue is now this: rewards for straight PvP damage kills & assists are garbage. Rewards from RNG loot are hit-and-miss. Fortunately for us though, I've seen two posts from Admin addressing this, indicating that they're going to bump the rewards and RNG rates a bit to make PvP more enticing again.

 

So, yeah, I PvP for the enjoyment of it and the endless variability...but I also have to have some doubloon income to cover the cost of modules on my ships.

The main reward for PvP, for me, is the enjoyable battle. But due to current (as in, since the introduction of PvP marks) game mechanics, if I want the good gear and wish to have sustainable PvP, I have to care about the rewards. Its no longer enough to say GG and get a screenshot...those days died with the big wipe and combat model update...and thats ok because I don't think this will be a bad system, if the numbers are tuned right.

[Jean Ribault]

15 minutes ago, William Death said:

...if I want the good gear ...

 

Really, that's all you had to say.  There is truth in part here.

[Teutonic]

3 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

only because the reward is required. If there was no reward period it wouldn't be a problem, but it's there so temptation to acquire is there because have>havenot

@William Death

fair enough.

I really do wish rewards for damage (without having to sink someone) was still in the game. the absolute "feast or famine" reward gameplay we have right now makes it hard to enjoy fighting a losing battle, and it makes it easier for someone to decide to stop playing. So the good get better and everyone else eventually quits.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Teutonic said:

@William Death

fair enough.

I really do wish rewards for damage (without having to sink someone) was still in the game. the absolute "feast or famine" reward gameplay we have right now makes it hard to enjoy fighting a losing battle, and it makes it easier for someone to decide to stop playing. So the good get better and everyone else eventually quits.

agree with you here, the worse feeling for me is going through an hour fight just to have it all for nothing. It doesn't make me want to play more or put time into supporting the game when I'm not getting any compensation for my time and effort. All or nothing is brutal, even as a veteran.

[Bluetooth]

8 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Hold-based loot and rewards, in addition to the updated way goods and mats are delivered is the best thing thats happened to this game in quite some time....

The magic wallet and days of sitting in Capitals checking on contracts had to go!

Well done devs.  Good patch.

+1

Great fun running away with stolen loot in your hold.....and I like the fact that you have to loot it put it in your hold.

Feels right somehow, rather than arcade style auto credits. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Pirate Blackbeard