Pvp Rewards

[AeRoTR]

Killing a player trincomalee gives 13 dubloons. Is this intended or a bug ?

Seems like it is giving us 13 pvp marks but in form of dubloons. I think it should be multiplied with some fixed amount.

Why would I risk a ship costing let's say 2500 dubloons plus all the crafting woods and labour hours to kill another ship giving you 13 dubloons. This is a risk but no reward system. I do not care if RNG will give me 500 dubloons in one the pvp kills. 

It is better now to go and farm predictive and stupid ai ships, instead of attacking more dangerous human players. As I can kill much more ai with less risk hoping RNG will give me more dubloons in holds.

*** to sum it up, Admirality should give fixed amount of dubloons for pvp kills which are worth the effort. RNG looted dubloons are your luck, but admirality will reward me more generous for kills.

[Sir Loorkon]

Refering to the reward you get in the patrol zones, the reward you get now in doubloons and you got before patch in PvP marks is 100:1

On the other hand you get a lootabe reward e.g. about 300-500 for 3-4 th rates, about 700 for a belona and so on.  This lootable reward is realy low in my opinion. It should be about 3x higher to be adequate to the risk you have in PvP and to be competative to the random loot (doubloons) you can find in tradeships. 

The lootmechanic should be changed, too. It was proposed in an other thread to do it like looting after boarding (only the boarderer can loot or give the ship free for looting). 

[Licinio Chiavari]

Reasonable critic.

Premise: surely economics (and especially currencies) need some rebalance, tuning up. That's plain obvious.

Still... before speaking of increasing PvP rewards (in hold or at battle end - less important) back to pre-patch normalized values could lead to the same situation (that I exploited and so "enjoyed" indeed):

PvPers able to easily upkeep themselves, and even get richer and richer doing ONLY PvP, buying with their "strong currency" all needed shiny stuff from PvEes to kill them.

Are we, and is OT, really wishing this kind of blood economy back ingame?
Simpler: is that bloody circuit (I kill PvErs with stuff bought with their "blood" from them) good for game enjoyability of majority? 

[Draymoor]

They should simply add a doubloons as a reward along with the reals you get from any battle. What you get in the hold is a bonus but there should be a guaranteed reward in doubloons. 

[SS Minnow]

Some hope for you...this is in there:  PvPLootTableSkillbookComplex

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Has anyone notice any difference in relation to player ranks ?

I may be wrong here, but i swear i had two distinct rewards values ( flat drop, no hold loot ) in equal ships but ... didn't see if the player ranks were also different...

[William Death]

They need to scale the doubloon rewards for PvP by the same factor they scaled navy hull and navy structure refits, 40:1 (40 doubloons = 1 PvP mark). Then that 13 doubloons reward you got from sinking the Trinco would become 520 doubloons + whatever came out of his hold; and all of a sudden PvP looks much more enticing. 

Then PvP will be worthwhile again (besides entertainment value). You go out, PvP, you sink some ships, the rewards for sinking them go straight to your wallet. Any doubloons you loot out of their hold you have to take back to port in your hold. This way, if you get sunk on the way back, you lost a significant amount of your rewards (the doubloons you looted), but at least you have what you earned from sinking the ships. Playing properly, that'll be enough so that you can recover without having to spend hours grinding doubloons from AI to pay for the ship you just lost.

 

I mean, right now, I go sink a ship and I get practically nothing from the actual combat + sinking him; the big reward is whatever RNG grants me in his hold. So what incentive do I have to sail anything other than fir/fir or similar and gank stuff? I certainly don't want to risk any fight where I might get sunk because I'd lose everything I gained on the trip.

In fact, I was considering the viability of having an alt sail with me in a speedcapped + loodsman Requin to haul my doubloons around for me (sink a ship and trade my doubloons to the alt). But if the rewards were scaled properly, I wouldn't be trying to work around what would otherwise be a good mechanic (having to haul part of your rewards around with you, under risk of losing them with the ship).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 pvp encounter. 2976 dubloons.

That's the reward of pvp, apart from the entertainment value.

 

[Liq]

5 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

1 pvp encounter. 2976 dubloons.

That's the reward of pvp, apart from the entertainment value.

 

What kind of battle was it?

If it is random 0 - 3000 dubloons for the same battle result, that then isnt a very Good game design imho

[AeRoTR]

@Licinio Chiavari in the old system, it was the game of pvp guys, they had all the power. Now you can get dubloons by basicly killing ai tbrigs or doing missions. So now the PVE guys have more chance, on the other hand the pvp is kind of useless. 

For example when you did the Patrol Mission, 20k damage would give you 10 pvp marks, plus the ships you killed. Now they have updated the rewards, 20k damage is 2000 dubloons. So 10 pvp mark = 2000 dubloons, each 200 dubloons which makes the patrols very profitable now. 

I think killing a player 5th rate ship will never give you 2600 (200x13) dubloons, but 13 dubloons is a joke. It must be a reasonable amount given by admirality. A teleport is 10 dubloons, so killing a player 5th rate should give much more covering at least 15-25 transport fee. 

So for working economy, PVP / RVR /PVE players must get their share, currently it is not balanced.

I am sure that this is not intended, "pvp loving developers and admin"

will fix it when time comes. Until that time a bit less Naval Action for me, may be I will be  blowing buildings in Just Cause 3.

 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Unpredictablility is a true game asset. Few games actually manage to provide unpredictability in things to happen, or, rewards to come. Predictability is leading towards boredom, like with 'guaranteed' rewards.

We learned the rewards now depend on the wealth (and rank?) of the looted victim. We don't know about what to expect when we attack him. Unpredictability. Same goes with AI ships, they could have loaded a fortune in the form of xxxxx doubloons or nothing at all. Unpredictability again. Fine.

So this does not need to be changed. Unpredictability where you'd wish there ought be some. Comes with the whole scale of emotions, from joy to disappointment. Other games don't have any at all.

Everything else seems to bring us inflation in doubloons. Now that we don't need. Doubloons have to be scarce to a certain extent. Or else we just happen to see the same bulldozing number of First Rates as before, which has been identified as problem and solved.

[AeRoTR]

@Cetric de Cornusiac look admirality should give a fixed amount which is less than what pvp marks used to give, "finding dubloon or loots in enemy hold" is your "unpredictability". Admirality of a nation should cover more than one basic transport fee for sinking an enemy player's ship. That is my point. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by AeRoTR

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

4 hours ago, Liq said:

What kind of battle was it?

If it is random 0 - 3000 dubloons for the same battle result, that then isnt a very Good game design imho

A Prince and a LGV engaged a Herc, Trader Brig, Xebec and 2 LGVs ( all with guns ) inside the bay of Atwood under a martello tower and fort. Wasn't random ( was random given we had no idea what he was carrying ), it was dubloons treasure being carried by one of the ships. No ships were sunk as i had only time to transfer some repairs and the dubloons over before I made my escape with the loot.

As I see it, I could've lost them as i returned to base if I was attacked in pvp... didn't happen. I'm happy.

Was one of the most interesting heists to date. We managed to get out by the smallest of margins with the shiny stuff.

That's pvp for me - ow chance encounters, but i've had some pvp of other types already. As it goes i've never ever ever seen so much shipping in never-before-used parts of the map. 😮 

[Archaos]

Although I agree that the direct PvP rewards may be on the low side and that PvE'ers have a slim chance or looting dubloons from traders, you have to remember that the new AI fleet distribution means that the PvE players have to go further afield closer to enemy waters to hunt the AI thus giving more targets for the PvP'ers and a chance of looting the dubloons that they pick up from traders.

By the way I would state again that AI traders drop dubloons rarely in my experience, so people should stop making out that it is easy for PvE'ers to get dubloons from killing AI. The only guaranteed way for PvE'ers to get dubloons is via missions and to get large quantities you need to put some serious time in sailing close to or in enemy waters (no longer can you sit outside Belize waiting for the AI fleets to show up).

[Kawazz]

 

15 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

1 pvp encounter. 2976 dubloons.

That's the reward of pvp, apart from the entertainment value.

 

Battle rewards, not ship loot. The loot table isn't that forgiving 100% of the time so lets be honest your PVP encounters are biased.

PVP has been discouraged with the new system. The return on investment is far too low. 

I have no problem with looting ships but when you get 1-8 doubloons for a battle reward then combine that with what drops from the ships and it ends up being no larger than 1,500 doubloons its not enough. Divide that reward by 6 based on the assists and kills in the group and you have 250 doubloons for 2-3 hours of work and risk.

Its fundamentally flawed.

This all happened in this battle:

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Dubloons are in the holds. Sometimes just the ones for that battle, sometimes more from the victim previous loots.

The Battle Report ones go directly to the Chest. The others don't.

If i'm correct, the idea is for the rewards not to go directly to the chest anymore. 

[William Death]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Dubloons are in the holds. Sometimes just the ones for that battle, sometimes more from the victim previous loots.

The Battle Report ones go directly to the Chest. The others don't.

If i'm correct, the idea is for the rewards not to go directly to the chest anymore. 

Yes, thats how it works. But it needs to be different, because the scaling is horrible and the amount in the hold seems to be determined by RNG.

Battle Report doubloons should be scaled to the same 40:1 ratio as the PvP mark modules (like Navy Hull) were scaled. That way you have some guaranteed rewards from PvPing. And any player who gets an assist will get a portion of that. 

Right now we only get maybe 1-30 doubloons (following the old PvP mark distribution system) from sinking a single ship in the battle report. Anything else you loot. This isn't good, they need to be scaled so that it will give us meaningful rewards in the battle report. Otherwise, only the person who loots the ship gets worthwhile rewards from the fight.

Scale the rewards you get in the battle report, and then the RNG loot that you carry in the hold can satisfy the desire to have people carrying around loot that can be captured.

[Spitfire83]

I don't like the rng factor in pvp battle rewards..

3 pvp fights... 

1 aga drops 618 doubloons in hold.

1 aga drops 0 doubloons in hold.

1 Indiaman  220 doubloons in hold.

Not really great reward distribution for the risks...and reward in reals is pretty low to in my opinion but hard to tell until markets stabilize.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Spitfire83

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

9 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

should Not be in the hold

... why ? 

Why not give the chance to win additional loot to the "loot you got" to another enemy players ?

Also, it may well be random, but i think there's more factors involved - unchecked and untested but... can you please take note of enemy player ranks in two equal ships ?

What is your perception of rewards IF enemy ships is fully equipped and metamegawarz0rz compared to being just a flat shop ship ?

I'm figuring stuff by testing here, so i have a lot of questions but zero complaints at the moment.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Okay, fair enough. That's how you see it being better. +1

It took time to adjust but now I like the risk of carrying the stuff on my hold, not automatically into the chest. But that's me.

[admin]

16 hours ago, Kawazz said:

 

 

 

 

oh.. thats definitely low..
dont worry  It will be adjusted to perfection soon

[William Death]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

oh.. thats definitely low..
dont worry  It will be adjusted to perfection soon

Glad to hear it.   

In that fight, I got 9 doubloons for boarding and sinking the Bucentaure and also an assist on a Hercules. Didn't feel worth it.

However, the 1156 (or something like that) doubloons in the hold of the Buc was nice, and I felt it was a good mechanic for me to have to transport them safely back. 

But I think it'll be best if you scale the rewards handed out after the battle so that the people who get kills/assists will receive meaningful rewards from doing the damage, in addition to whatever the person loots from the hold of the sunken ship.

[_Alucard_]

Killed a L'Ocean and gave me 81 doubloons  WTFF!!!!!

[Tiedemann]

It takes 9000 doubloons to craft an Ocean, why did you sink it!? 🤣

[Teutonic]

I don't mind when pvp rewards don't cover a loss or you need to pvp often to get stuff. But the rewards are far too low for pvpers to even attempt to purchase items and ships.

But I'm also torn because this is also a perfect opportunity to capture and keep ships. Personally I'd rather have it where the ship is more valuable than the rewards. As @Tiedemann said, why sink a lineship when their value is in capturing and keeping it?

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Teutonic