Risk verses reward

[Old Crusty]

I could write a thousand words in explanation but people have explained it in threads all over the Forums.

The risk verses reward ratio has been dialed up so high that the game has become more of a job than a fun way to escape from real life for awhile.

Players should have been enticed through rewards to do PvP and not forced into it.

[admin]

no-one is forced to pvp

in fact many active pvp players say that rewards are now better in PVE and tell us that no-one should be forced to pve

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The rewards are the same through PvE and PvP. Reals, Dubloons are rewarded, at various levels to ALL open world actions. In addition to that, missions ( atm we have vs AI only but PvP specific ones are coming ) also reward chests with very niceties.

This is fact. There's no segregation of playstyle anymore. It all comes down to player choice of what type of activity to engage in, conscious that ALL other players also do sail the open world.

Dilemma - Taking a Trincomalee to a Search & destroy mission, 3x Ingermalands, or taking a Bucentaure, can be a "choice" issue. With the Trinc you have to fight better vs the AI but if you come upon enemy players the loss isn't major. If you take the Bucentaure, you will have an esasy time versus the AI but, if you lose ship versus players it might hurt more.

Make your choice.

 

[TheHaney]

While I don't necessarily disagree that the risk/reward ratio has shifted to some degree, I will say that the patch (in my experience thus far) has drastically increased the willingness for people to group up, venture out to [something other than home waters] and hunt, actually hunt, AI ships.

In this regard I can begrudgingly say it was a good change, despite it's many, varied and documented ancillary issues.

[HachiRoku]

But what is someones expectation of reward? Your ship is payed off after 1 fight or 10? 

The game became a job the day you had to grind ai for books. 

You could also never really survive of PvP imo because if you think about it most ships sank in less than 10 battles on average. My ships were not payed of by then so if I did not capture a good ship in those battles it was a loss. Most ships you cap in "pvp" are useless and the good ones are sailed by people that can defend themselves. Odds are you won't be surviving of good pvpers ships because they will sink you sooner or later. 

Keep in mind I didn't consider pvp marks to be a useful reward because we had 1000 of them and did not know what to do since all mods and ships we used didn't need them. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Also, missions state sink X model. You will fill the quotas with sinking X model, be it AI or players. So... can go full pvp mode and fill in hunt/search and destroy  missions and get the drops. No need to PvE.

[Angus MacDuff]

Both risk and reward are different now.  This was a major change and it requires a re-think of our old SOP's.  People resist change.  That's why the Forum has blown up. 

[Fargo]

44 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

This is fact. There's no segregation of playstyle anymore. It all comes down to player choice of what type of activity to engage in, conscious that ALL other players also do sail the open world.

The question is why do we need doubloons then? The purpose of PvP marks was to force people into PvP. Stupid, but atleast there was a reasoning behind it.

When you get doubloons for the same actions that reward reals, why not reduce it to reals?!

To have doubloons in the game for historical reasons? You can do this by letting players place contracts in reals or doubloons, what would be way more accurate historically, and by removing them from crafting. The whole issue is that doubloons arent used to buy materials for crafting, but they are the material.

[Georg Fromm]

1 hour ago, Old Crusty said:

I could write a thousand words in explanation but people have explained it in threads all over the Forums.

The risk verses reward ratio has been dialed up so high that the game has become more of a job than a fun way to escape from real life for awhile.

Players should have been enticed through rewards to do PvP and not forced into it.

It would be very helpful if you also wrote why a player in NA is forced to go to PvP?

[Georg Fromm]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

1000 doubloons for sinking a player in a first rate.

9200 for crafting an Ocean.

 

I have to risk my first rate 9 times to be able to replace it.

More risks, less rewards= less players, more fear, less pvp & rvr.

Perhaps the meaning behind the Doublons is that big battleships can no longer be seen as disposable vessels, which can easily be replaced.

In the future, large losses, e.g. in harbor battles, sometimes have a lasting effect. I welcome the idea behind it

[Fargo]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I have to risk my first rate 9 times to be able to replace it.

You know that there are other ships in the game, and other activities than sinking first rates?

You know that labour grants you a constant income, even if youre not playing much? You know about free insurances?

You know that if economy would work you could buy everything you need for reals, even the ship itself for reals on the market?

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Folks can still attack AI in closed missions, the loot just isn't as good. It's incentivising people towards dangerous areas which isn't a bad thing.

[Georg Fromm]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

You will not welcome it when you and your clan lose the battle, the port and the expensive ships.

Of course no one likes to lose his big ships, but if I get a game in return, that offers me a longer-term motivation, then I agree.
I can understand your concerns well and there are also games that offer just that (for example World of Warships, a click and you have your ship ). Ultimately, neither one or the other view is right or wrong. They are only different.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

You know not everyone likes pickles.

You know insurance only gives you reals. I strongly believe insurance is a fake feature for lineships.

You know no one will sell big ships for reasonable prices because of the doubloons.

You don't know any of that.  Its been two days and devs are doing hotfixes.  You have complained incessantly since the patch came out.  You may not be able to do things exactly the same as you did last week, so you'll have to find new strategies to succeed.  It looks extremely easy to make money in this brave new world and yes, perhaps it will be more difficult to acquire a 1st rate, but so what?  This is not "1st Rate Action". 

[Fargo]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

 You know not everyone likes pickles.

You know insurance only gives you reals. I strongly believe insurance is a fake feature for lineships.

You know no one will sell big ships for reasonable prices because of the doubloons.

You dont think there are lot of ships in between?!

I dont care what you believe. Fact is there is more income than battle rewards. Ship cost totally depends on how many ships are lost per day and player, so the ship lifetime. This needs to be figured out. What you believe is irrelevant. 

Lets not talk about doubloons, they are problematic. Your point is that you need to farm 9 ships to get a new ship. But thats wrong. You could just sit in the harbour trading stuff and selling your daily labour, and you would be able to craft/buy a first rate at some point. 

Maybe youre still not getting it: You are not supposed to sail first rates 24/7.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 TBrig...20 minutes sailing time.  100,000 Reals profit.  Money is not a problem.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, admin said:

in fact many active pvp players say that rewards are now better in PVE and tell us that no-one should be forced to pve

Signed. (PvE has always been better as far as rewards, xp grind + cash / time is concerned)

_________________

People have been so tired of my shit as I've spent literally years bitching and complaining about PvE. It is a personal problem. I can't say how few or many, active or awol players share my particular antipathy towards PvE.

I bet some wonder why it's such an issue for me?

Motivation to play.

I absolutely adore the PvP fighting part of this game. Having to PvE to get cash, marks, doubloons, mods, books is eroding my motivation and critically so. I have done and still do anything I can to bypass, fast-track, "cheat" and minimize my PvE exposure.

It's not because I'm an asshole; I'm trying to stay afloat here.

[Beeekonda]

Even more care bearing and exciting "sitting in port"/afk"trading" gameplay. Nice.

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, Beeekonda said:

Even more care bearing and exciting "sitting in port"/afk"trading" gameplay. Nice.

?

[Fargo]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Im only talking about doubloons, have I mentioned reals?

You are complaining about expensive ships!

Doubloons should be removed as a crafting material, but the ships should remain expensive by consuming way more resources, so labour and reals.

[Beeekonda]

5 minutes ago, jodgi said:

?

I see a lot of "sit in port craft and sell stuff" and "go trade I made 100k in 20min" posts.

What about PewPew'ing? It's literally the best thing this game has and it does it better than the other games ever done.

[Angus MacDuff]

13 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Have I said anything about reals? Try to read.

Money...Doubloons...Reals....Its money. 

[Angus MacDuff]

5 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

I see a lot of "sit in port craft and sell stuff" and "go trade I made 100k in 20min" posts.

What about PewPew'ing? It's literally the best thing this game has and it does it better than the other games ever done.

Hasn't changed.  Go out and kill somebody.  Might have to find a new place to hunt though.

[Custard]

The problem is the combination of enemy AI no longer being everywhere and TP having a cost.

For average PVE players that want the jeopardy of being on a PVP server like me and my friends this will probably be too much aggravation.

We have an area set up to harvest resources and build ships etc outside of a protected zone to get from here to the front lines we will have to be able to TP, prior to this patch we lost ships to PVPers regularly, with this patch I fear our losses will become unsustainable. Already one of us has moved to the PVE server. 

[Beeekonda]

1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Hasn't changed.  Go out and kill somebody.  Might have to find a new place to hunt though.

 

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

I could write a thousand words in explanation but people have explained it in threads all over the Forums.

The risk verses reward ratio has been dialed up so high that the game has become more of a job than a fun way to escape from real life for awhile.

Players should have been enticed through rewards to do PvP and not forced into it.

You are one of those dudes on the right side. What's the point for you to fight the combat you ain't gonna win? Even if you kill somebody the reward is so little that it doesn't make any sense. What would you do, surrender?