Patch 27 - Combat missions, events and challenges feedback.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Can you explain in detail what does grinding back to another frigate means to you?

You should already know the exactly the figures to grind-out/equip a frigate from resources less that of a frigate.

Said, is that the balance for beginners game is out, too taxing, this includes 5^th rates, as per @Kilo60 feedback.

I’m ok with NPCs in there home waters, but not all of them, try...

> Re-cause some of them to a range outside enemies reinforcement zone or mid-ocean.

> Doubling 6^th and 5^th rate kill rewards.

Tweak alittle!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Guest

[Kilo60]

7 hours ago, admin said:

unlike ships of the line frigates do not really require much time to get..

• You can just capture any frigate you see at sea. NPC frigates are capturable for free. 
• If you crafted the ship you get insurance (which is slightly above the basic cost) so you can immediately build it back

Can you explain in detail what does grinding back to another frigate means to you?
 

1.  I sailed around for over two and a half hours last night trying to cap an AI frigate for one of my brothers didn't see one damn frigate!  

2.  As soon as I got near an enemy port or any Freeport to hunt AI frigates I was immediately chased and ganked and lost lost both my Hercules DLC ships!

3.  My brothers are newer players that don't have any buildings and no ability to craft.

4.  The missions offer horrible payouts and are extremely hard to complete! Missions versus lower rate ships or multiple ships of your same rate are impossible for newer players.

5.  How the heck are they able to capture any  AI frigare now when they're based in basic Cutters or at the very best can barely afford a privateer?

 

In the past my brother's would take a single combat Mission and bring an AI Trader snow to help even the odds so they had a chance of winning the battle and ranking up.  Now there's only Fleet missions any AI ships you bring with you to help even the odds are cannon fodder and spawn an additional super AI ship making the battle even harder if not impossible to win!

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Kilo60

[TheHaney]

13 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

5.  How the heck are they able to capture any  AI frigare now when they're based in basic Cutters or at the very best can barely afford a privateer?

This is an underrated problem. Even with fixed 6-7th missions, the new player experience is super rough even compared to before. The patch needs a lot of tuning but I hope we don't lose sight of the guys running around that can't even afford an Admiralty frigate.

 

EDIT: Granted, this isn't so much an issue for experienced players that can run a cutter up to enemy waters and nab a couple of trader brigs, but that's a tall order for someone fresh to the game.

Edited November 5, 2018 by TheHaney

[TheHaney]

Just now, Wraith said:

newer players can always go straight out in a cutter and cap some traders and have plenty enough cash to buy storebought ships...

I think the only issue with this concept is that a newer player won't understand where to find an enemy trader, won't know how to actually defeat an enemy trader (a trader snow especially will wreck a new player in a cutter), and the sheer time it takes for a rookie-piloted cutter to defeat a trader of any size is substantial. That's assuming they don't get intercepted, which they probably will if they ever try the same habit in their first frigate.

I'm all for challenge, and I love the new gameplay, but for a first-time player that just popped out of the tutorials, it's an extremely unintuitive start. I'd seriously recommend on doubling the lowlevel missions in capitals, and adding a tutorial page to talk about open-world travel and AI shipping.

[TheHaney]

Just now, Wraith said:

You really think sinking a rookie brig or cutter is any harder than sinking a trader snow?

Trader snows are slippery as hell, they get off a lot more shots than a trader brig. For a new player I'm sure it would be an unpleasant surprise.

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yes the learning curve is steep as a brand new player, but after trying a handful of times they'll get it.  Plus it costs them nothing as long as they're staying in their basic cutter with infinite repairs...

This is true, but my worry is the fact that after the tutorial they'll be sailing 30+ minutes to enemy waters, spending 30+ minutes trying to kill a trader, and if the new player dies at that point or (worse) is ganked, that's a really shitty first hour. I'm fine with high difficulty but the frustration I've seen from new players in nation in the last couple of days is troubling. I'm not saying there needs to be a gentle difficulty curve, but there needs to be a curve of some type. Right now the only real olive branch to new players is the tutorials (which are quite good) and free repairs on the cutter.

[Draymoor]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't disagree that the documentation and in-game cues for what to do next couldn't be better but this is not an economic or gameplay issue. The tools are there already. I think there should be a tutorial mission that has the player navigate their way to Shroud Cay (or another free town if they start there in an Impossible nation). From any free town finding traders to cap of some other nation than your own is trivial.

Finding other players from other nations that will sink you on sight at any free port is far easier than finding any trader though. The learning curve being steep isn't the problem but that it punishes you harshly when you fail. Nobody wants to sail around in a cutter, they are looking to get out of that cutter as soon as possible. If they can't they will quit out of pure boredom. This game needs fresh new players not to become a game that is harder to get into and pushes away most people that will actually try it. Currently the steam review are mostly negative, do you really think this game can afford to keep losing more players that buy it despite the negative reviews? Getting into the game should be that, 'a curve'. This game is currently more like climbing up a cliff, there's no curve about it. 

[Kilo60]

25 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Why not go out in a basic cutter and cap a few LGVs or a handful of trader brigs... with their cargo it should give you enough reals to buy a store-bought Reno easily (12k reals plus enough for cannons and repairs).  Though Admin already stated the 6-7th rate missions are bugged and will return to capitals, which should help, newer players can always go straight out in a cutter and cap some traders and have plenty enough cash to buy storebought ships...

LMAO!!!

 

 

Did you honestly suggest trying to fit any LGV cargo in a basic cutter!!!!!!

 

Besides the fact that your are outnumber crew wise 6 to 1!

ROFLMAO!!!

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Kilo60

[Angus MacDuff]

I was anew player at the beginning of the year and I would not touch a TSnow then.  Plus I was able to tag TBrigs near my capitol and had great reinforcments available.  All that is gone now and new players must travel far away to PVE.  Additionally, basic Cutters are a valid target now as there are 7th rate missions and Player Cutters can Spawn Doubloons.  It's a very harsh environment for Noobs these days.

[TheHaney]

4 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

Did you honestly suggest trying to fit any LGV cargo in a basic cutter!!!!!!

Besides the fact that your are outnumber crew wise 6 to 1!

This. It's entirely possible to cap an LGV with a cutter in under 30 minutes but it's boring, requires precision sailing, and newer players will not be pulling it off.

[TheHaney]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It's extremely easy to sink an LGV in a cutter, and doubloons only weigh 0.1. So payout is actually quite high regardless of your ability to cap it or not.

You need to put yourself in the head of a new player.

They're gonna have trouble, and likely die, finding an LGV. They're gonna have trouble, and likely die, fighting the LGV. They're gonna watch most of the contents of it's hold sink. They're not gonna be able to buy a new ship on the market with the doubloons (IF they make it back to port with them). They're gonna ask a dozen questions in Nation, get told things by vets that they perceive as impossible, and they're gonna utilize their 2-hour refund window and vanish.

[staun]

28 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

LMAO!!!

 

 

Did you honestly suggest trying to fit any LGV cargo in a basic cutter!!!!!!

 

Besides the fact that your are outnumber crew wise 6 to 1!

ROFLMAO!!!

 

 

And not even sure those guys won the challange. Think it was done in abouth 5 min.

The real value in the LGV is the doublons, not its cargo. But if a LGV is to hard, they can easy take a trader

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by staun

[TheHaney]

1 minute ago, staun said:

The real value in the LGV is the doublons, not its cargo

I don't think people are getting the concept that to a brand-new player, doubloons are nearly worthless.

If I'm a brand-new player entering the game, I need reals. Lots of reals. I'm losing brigs and frigates, restocking crew, buying cannons and consumables, opening outposts. I won't even perceive doubloons as valuable until I'm much more established.

[Aster]

On top of it actually being really easy to cap a LGV on a cutter once you get the hang of it trade ships are pretty good as early low crew ships. The trader snow for instance is a ship that can be crewed with 60 crew and is essentially a normal snow. Also you can take all the loot with you off other traders you kill which really helps early on with the money.

[staun]

Just now, TheHaney said:

I don't think people are getting the concept that to a brand-new player, doubloons are nearly worthless.

If I'm a brand-new player entering the game, I need reals. Lots of reals. I'm losing brigs and frigates, restocking crew, buying cannons and consumables, opening outposts. I won't even perceive doubloons as valuable until I'm much more established.

Yep but those ships you loose you get insurance for. Think up to 5 rate players are well covered as it is now.

 

[TheHaney]

Just now, staun said:

Yep but those ships you loose you get insurance for. Think up to 5 rate players are well covered as it is now. 

 

Only player-made ships are insured. Hopefully the market stabilizes reasonably quickly but right now the cheapest ships available are Admiralty ships, plus new players will mostly be using captured ships once they get their feet wet (shit I've been back playing for three weeks and 90% of my ships are still captured).

[staun]

3 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

Only player-made ships are insured. Hopefully the market stabilizes reasonably quickly but right now the cheapest ships available are Admiralty ships, plus new players will mostly be using captured ships once they get their feet wet (shit I've been back playing for three weeks and 90% of my ships are still captured).

As you said they can always cap a ship. I also think rather fast they will start build ships. 

But I honnestly think with the money that are in the game right now, up to 5 rates ppl have a rather easy start. 

After the new patch I are only going to sail 5 rate and below. I simply wont grind for doublons. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The rush to a frigate is nonsense and a recipe for frustration.

Not nonsense, its the "Act of every gamer" to advance!

So many point of views of Admiral, of richest, of competent, as is @admin.

So few in someone else’s shoes.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

If you are incapable of keeping a frigate afloat then you shouldn't risk the cost of it sailing it

Exactly, nothing less than hardcore you advocate.

You guys have the debate, but still at what cost, thus we say.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Guest

[Kilo60]

1 hour ago, Aster said:

On top of it actually being really easy to cap a LGV on a cutter once you get the hang of it trade ships are pretty good as early low crew ships. The trader snow for instance is a ship that can be crewed with 60 crew and is essentially a normal snow. Also you can take all the loot with you off other traders you kill which really helps early on with the money.

Problem still remains that these ships are all in enemy territory now!

Much easier for a newbie in BC to practice on a LGV when in his own R or C zone in the past!!!!

[AngryPanCake]

This tool tip added to the Map is excellent:

[admin]

11 hours ago, TheHaney said:

This. It's entirely possible to cap an LGV with a cutter in under 30 minutes but it's boring, requires precision sailing, and newer players will not be pulling it off.

 

11 hours ago, Wraith said:

It's extremely easy to sink an LGV in a cutter, and doubloons only weigh 0.1. So payout is actually quite high regardless of your ability to cap it or not.

Good point

We will add the challenge to the Welcome to the Caribbean newbie operation and require 3 lgv stolen in a 7th rate to complete.

[Tom Farseer]

10 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

Problem still remains that these ships are all in enemy territory now!

Much easier for a newbie in BC to practice on a LGV when in his own R or C zone in the past!!!!

@admin
I can understand well enough that you want to incentivise new players to leave the reinforcement zones and that ports only spawning ships of their nation will do that. I can however understand as well that this results in newbies (and I am talking actual newbies with less than, say, 30 hours in the game) having a very high rate of frustration, because it will take much longer for them to find viable targets and they will be at a higher risk while searching for them.

Therefore I suggest the following:

While warships of any kind should still only spawn in ports of their nation and only rarely penetrate deep into enemy territory, traders should not be part of this restriction. Or at least they should run further into enemy waters more often (passing as smugglers). While not neccessarily realistic this can give new players more targets of a size they can take on.

[Kilo60]

5 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

@admin
I can understand well enough that you want to incentivise new players to leave the reinforcement zones and that ports only spawning ships of their nation will do that. I can however understand as well that this results in newbies (and I am talking actual newbies with less than, say, 30 hours in the game) having a very high rate of frustration, because it will take much longer for them to find viable targets and they will be at a higher risk while searching for them.

Therefore I suggest the following:

While warships of any kind should still only spawn in ports of their nation and only rarely penetrate deep into enemy territory, traders should not be part of this restriction. Or at least they should run further into enemy waters more often (passing as smugglers). While not neccessarily realistic this can give new players more targets of a size they can take on.

+1

[Kilo60]

Bottom line is:

There were only 200 ppl online last night at 8PM EST....   

 

There has never been less than 400 at this time on any day of the week especially Mondays...

Tried to play last night but with such a low player population was boring as hell and the Caribbean was deserted!!!!

 

If that doesn't provide a metric to how the new patch changes are preceievd by a majority of players than the dev's just don't get it!  

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Talk to your EST timezone friends then.

GMT/CET prime time was pretty okay and with ships all over the place ( spotted by me + combat news + hostility %% )