Wapen von Hamburg build / use in PvP

[Njord]

I have been loving the visuals of this unique ship ever since they added it. The lavish decoration, colours and hull shape are simply excellent but in terms of performance it is rather lacking and maybe rightfully so, considering it is one of the oldest ships in the game. Is there any scenario were I would use this ship over others with some combination of woods and mods, any use for it at all or is it simply rubbish for PvP?

@admin Will the Hamburg be buffed / rebalanced in the ship rebalance update? 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Sovereign

[Guest]

Wapens are the best turning 4th rate. I think a successful wapen would be one fit for turning and brawling in which case it could probably do well knife fighting multiple 5th rates without getting stern camped.

In general though most 4th rates are in a bad place right now. Too slow, too unmaneuverable and too weak against bigger ships.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sovereign said:

Yeah, this is the only thing it has going for it sadly ( as far as I can tell ) and I am not sure it is enough to justify having it in the game... it has decent DPS too but too many low calibre guns that are hard to get on target up close and skilled players will know about the DPS potential and deny you the benefit of it anyways.

People need to stop 'justifying having ships in the game'. More variety is always better!

[William Death]

I love it when people think a ship is useless. Just because *you* don't like the strong points of it, doesn't mean it can't do well in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. There are only a handful of useless ships for OW PvP in NA, and almost all of them are fifth rates or smaller.

How to use it:

Wapen turns great, has a decent speed, masts, toughness, and the hull shape is great (not much tumblehome but a good fore-and-aft curvature). It wrecks any 5th rate 1v1 that doesn't run away, and handles 2 and 3+v1 battles with fifth rates, provided its sailed properly. And fighting fourth rates? Wapen is the only ship that consistently scares me in my dueling Ingermanland. Its the one ship I can't out-turn, barely out-damage in a broadside exchange, and it has 4 heavy bow chasers. 

And, when equipped properly for OW PvP, Wapen can reach the speed cap, or at least a high speed. And don't forget the turn rate. For a duelist, turn rate and mast thickness is life. 

So make a fast build, run down fifth and fourth rates, sink them, and use your speed to escape anything you can't outfight. Find a noob in a 1st-3rd rate alone? You can handle him, believe in yourself. Mind your angles, and even a fir ship will bounce L'Ocean broadsides. You've got enough HP for one slip-up. Enough mast thickness to survive a number of volleys aimed by the average noob. And, if things go south when fighting that bigger ship, just use your mainsail thrusters to speed away downwind.

Or do what others said, take a reasonably tough build like teak/wo and go wreck some fifth rates. Just accept that you're eventually gonna get caught by a fleet with enough fast ships to keep you in, and enough big ships to sink you before you can do anything (but that goes for any slow PvP build, not just a slow Wapen build).

 

Now, you imply that its useless in PBs, and I agree with you. But thats not the ship's fault. Thats the fault of our *wonderful and perfectly balanced* BR system that we have.

 

Really, Wapen is just a ship that excels in areas that not many players value. When is the last time you were sailing a fourth rate, looking for other fourth rates in OW to sink? When is the last time you bothered to use a large number of small guns combined with high turn rate to take down one side of a ship, using both broadsides of your own ship?  You don't see Wapen much because not many players fight battles the way a Wapen wants her skipper to fight the battle. But when you run across a Wapen captain who knows what he's about, you're gonna get wrecked if you can't escape. 

Makes me wonder if the people who say Wapen is such garbage actually bother to sail it or they just pass it off as crap because they don't like the looks and have only fought noobs that sailed Wapen. I think L'Ocean is garbage, but I don't deny its the perfect first rate for some players.

 

Horses for courses. If Wapen doesn't suit your playstyle, surely one of the other fourth rates will. 

[Beeekonda]

It's really rubish, but if you have enough skill it might be a fun ship to fool around with masts. Just gotta stay away from bigger ships and swarms of enemies. 

Relatively short hull, but taller sides with 4 decks makes it very attractive in demasting. Another plus that it Wapen has 4, yes FOUR 68pd stern carronades, which adds up attractiveness in demasting game. 4 bow chasers are also FeelsGoodMan

On the other side: High profile and huge ass makes you a perfect target to shoot at. In clinch with 4th rates and lower your 2 top decks usually becomes useless as they fire over the other ship. Wapen and Inger has the least amount of HP and Thicknes in the class. Teak/WO Endymion has only 230 HP and 4 Thickness less than Teak/WO Wapen, meanwhile Teak/WO Connie has 1500 hp and 9 Thickness over Endymion.

Connie and Aggie just more attractive to players of all skill levels. More universal, no huge cons.

 

[Guest]

NO! The only good thing about a Wappen is when it sinks, it is so aesthetically displeasing that it actually hurts my eyes!

When it just came out I even went to the doctor to have them checked and he just asked if I had been changing habits lately and I showed him a pic of the wappen and then he had an eyesore!!

[Christendom]

The problem with the ships currently, and this isn't exclusive to the Wappen, is just that there is no real reason to sail anything other than a Herc, Requin or a Speed Bellona for PVP.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by Christendom

[Batman]

@sveno

[Njord]

37 minutes ago, Flinch said:

Wapens are the best turning 4th rate.

Yeah, this is the only thing it has going for it sadly ( as far as I can tell ) and I am not sure it is enough to justify having it in the game... it has decent DPS too but too many low calibre guns that are hard to get on target up close and skilled players will know about the DPS potential and deny you the benefit of it anyways.

[Njord]

3 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

NO! The only good thing about a Wappen is when it sinks, it is so aesthetically displeasing that it actually hurts my eyes!

When it just came out I even went to the doctor to have them checked and he just asked if I had been changing habits lately and I showed him a pic of the wappen and then he had an eyesore!!

Just look at dat thicc rear. Be honest with yourself, these curves don't lie...

[Njord]

3 minutes ago, Flinch said:

More variety is always better!

You mean to pull it out of the docks for a few seconds once in a blue moon and have a good wank about it? I mean it's not really variety when nobody wants to sail it, because it is useless.... except for maybe on the PvE server. I too would welcome more variety but only when every ship has its use or is competitive to some degree. I have never seen a really good PvP captain sail a Wapen for a serious battle, no matter RvR or OW PvP and quite frankly that's a shame... we just have too many obsolete or underperforming ships in game, that leave you with the illusion of variety when only a fraction is really viable.

[Guest]

The essex was totally useless it the BR rebalance made it stupid awesome in PBs. You can always make a 'useless' ship viable.

[Njord]

6 minutes ago, William Death said:

I love it when people think a ship is useless

Seems to be the general consensus regarding the wapen to be honest... I couldn't find a single recording or screenshot of any PB or OW Battle, where one of the top players used the wapen to great effect... or rather used it at all. I also asked a few players I consider well above my skill tier and they all agree that it is rubbish. 

Your input was interesting, thank you.

[LeBoiteux]

It'd be nice if there were more of these beautiful ships of the first half of the 18th century in NA !