Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) For a long time I have felt that women have been neglected in Naval Action, I feel that it is time to bring Naval Action into the 21st century. It's wrong that we're not able to choose gender upon creating a character... It's so simple to implement and would add diversity to the 17th-18th century caribbean and is sure to attract thousands of players. I'd suggest the following changes: Ranks must be changed to fit 21st century standards e.g.: Midshipwoman Mastress and Commandress I'd also suggest adding new nations; China and the Zulu tribe comes to mind - but I shall leave that for another post. EDIT: Native american tribes are a must - gender neutral ranks could work as well, hence I suggest Midshipperson instead. Thanks to @Hethwill the Harmless and @Licinio Chiavari for expanding upon the initial suggestion! Edited September 17, 2018 by Percival Merewether 3
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Remember that the "game toon" ( just to use mmo slang ) is THE SHIP. Any ship, at any given time. A ship is always female And if i'm not mistaken ranks are genderless. A sergeant, a leutenant, can be both male and female, no ? 4
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) Lol. Made my morning... Still... making male and female gender ranks could hurt others within the LGBTQIA+ framework. Better finding totally neutral ranks... Being not english motherlanguage I have some difficulties thinking about them. About nation... there're other minorities requiring representation, like American Natives too. Edited September 17, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari Typo 2
Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Author Posted September 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: And if i'm not mistaken ranks are genderless. A sergeant, a leutenant, can be both male and female, no ? 12 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said: About nation... there're other minorities requiring rapresentation, like American Natives too. Both of the above has been added to the suggestions, great work guys - we're on to something here.
Malachi Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: Remember that the "game toon" ( just to use mmo slang ) is THE SHIP. Any ship, at any given time. A ship is always female Oh, Hethwill the Outdated, Lloyds would like to have a word with you: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/04/08/pronoun-overboard 3
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Aye, she is a fine veffel. She is, aye. 3
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Malachi said: Oh, Hethwill the Outdated, Lloyds would like to have a word with you: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/04/08/pronoun-overboard The level of barbarism today is chilling. Proudly traditionalist well knowing I was born with at least a century error.
LeBoiteux Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: Remember that the "game toon" ( just to use mmo slang ) is THE SHIP. Any ship, at any given time. A ship is always female And if i'm not mistaken ranks are genderless. A sergeant, a leutenant, can be both male and female, no ? Not in French (but as always, French and British do the exact opposite 🙂) : 'The Ship' can be male (le navire, le bateau) or female (la frégate, la corvette). Likewise, the name can be male (in-game Le Bucentaure) or female (in-game La Renommée). Regarding French in-game military ranks, nowadays some ranks accept a gender form, such as Le Lieutenant -> La Lieutenante. 2
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Given Sun and Moon are not the same gender everywhere... is this even a thing when localization languages come in !? At least in portuguese a Frigate will never be male. Ever !
z4ys Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 In Nelson's time Admiralty Regulations stated that women were not allowed to be taken to sea and that '... no women be ever permitted to be on board but such as are really the wives of the men they come to, and the ship not too much pestered even with them'. Whatever the rulebook said, however, it is nevertheless clear that women did travel aboard Nelson's ships - and in large numbers, although senior officers were not necessarily in favour of this. When a great personal friend of Nelson, Admiral Cuthbert Collingwood, discovered that women had been brought onboard his flagship, he ordered the women ashore because of '... the mischief they never fail to create wherever they are'. He also wrote that 'I never knew a woman brought to sea in a ship that some mischief did not befall the vessel'. The Earl Saint Vincent, another friend of Nelson's, was also against women coming to sea, largely due to their washing their clothes in the ship's fresh water. In our own day, following some passionate debate, official attitudes towards women serving onboard Royal Navy vessels have recently changed. In 1993 women were officially allowed ------------------- During the 1801 Egyptian campaign, over 60 Royal Navy vessels carried and escorted 12,000 troops to Aboukir Bay, Egypt, in an attempt to drive French forces out of Egypt. Out of every 100 men, three soldiers were allowed to bring their wives, which meant that there were at least 360 women in the fleet, as well as their children. These women and children are recorded in the ships' muster books. For instance the muster book of HMS Charon records that there were 30 women and 20 children onboard 'belonging to the 30th Regiment [now the Queen's Lancashire Regiment]'. ----------------------- Books: Nelson's Navy: The Ships, Men and Organisation 1793-1815 by B Lavery (Conway Maritime Press, 1989) Nelson and the Nile: The Naval War against Bonaparte 1798 by B Lavery (Chatham, 1998) A Voice from the Main Deck: Being a record of the thirty years adventures of Samuel Leech by S Leech (Chatham, 1999; originally published in 1857) British Victory in Egypt, 1801: The End of Napoleon's Conquest by P Mackesy (Routledge, 1995) Nautical Economy or Forecastle Recollections of Events during the Last War by J Nastyface (Chatham, 1836) The Life and Adventures of John Nicol, Mariner edited by Gordon Grant (Edinburgh, 1822; reprinted London, 1937) The Wooden World: An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy by NAM Rodger (Fontana, 1988) Female Tars: Women Aboard Ship in the Age of Sail by SJ Stark (Constable, 1996) 2
Angus MacDuff Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Probably have to re-think the Rear Admiral rank... 1
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 In italian is weird. Ship ("nave") is female. A lot of ship type are female ("fregata" frigate, "corvetta" corvette, "goletta" schooner), others are male ("incrociatore" cruiser, "brigantino" brigantine). A ship name is male or female not based the name but on ship classe/type gender: Bismarck is female because battleship - "corazzata" - is female as Prinz Eugen is male because cruiser is male. 1
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Midshiplady rather than Midshipwoman sounds less cavewoman like and has a nice ring to it.. her... 2
z4ys Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said: Midshiplady rather than Midshipwoman sounds less cavewoman like and has a nice ring to it.. her... Doesnt make sense because only men could be en listed on the ship muster roll. All women that served in the navy during age of sail used names of men and had to hide their true gender. 2
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, z4ys said: Doesnt make sense because only men could be en listed on the ship muster roll. All women that served in the navy during age of sail used names of men and had to hide their true gender. Monday is also female in portuguese
LeBoiteux Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, z4ys said: All women that served in the navy during age of sail used names of men and had to hide their true gender. such as Jeanne Baret. Edited September 17, 2018 by LeBoiteux 3
Angus MacDuff Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 In today's Canadian Navy, we have women crew members. We have not changed the rank names. So Ordinary Seaman, Able Seamen, etc. have not changed by gender. Probably the major change is that we can no longer use the phrase, "scullery slut", for the dish washer. 2
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Exactly. Our "character" is the ship we sailing at any given moment. Not the captain. 1
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: Exactly. Our "character" is the ship we sailing at any given moment. Not the captain. Well... On EVE players create character look too. And dress him. And some rare drop clothes are worth more than a ship. In a far far away future, not a bad feature for NA too. PS: I am not interested, still could be good marketing wise. Edited September 17, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari 1
LeBoiteux Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: Our "character" is the ship we sailing at any given moment. Not the captain. Hello, Mr. Basic Cutter. My name is Mrs The Fame (La Renommée) 😉 Edited September 17, 2018 by LeBoiteux 2
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, LeBoiteux said: Hello, Mr. Basic Cutter. My name is Mrs The Fame (La Renommée) 😀 And I am Mr.Shark, Jaws for friends 1
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 I demand social justice for greenskins. 3
Takumi El risitas Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Rickard said: Ranks to fit the 21st century????? WE PLAY A GAME BASED ON 1790ish !! There is people asking for equal rights for womens in kingdom come deliverance... I mean, there are a lot of nonsenses 2
Eduard L'Aquila Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 I'd rather be able to name my own ship (and have the name appear when I'm sighted) and let others use the pronouns they want. 2
LeBoiteux Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said: For a long time I have felt that women have been neglected in Naval Action, I feel that it is time to bring Naval Action into the 21st century. It's wrong that we're not able to choose gender upon creating a character... It's so simple to implement and would add diversity to the 17th-18th century caribbean and is sure to attract thousands of players. I'd suggest the following changes: Ranks must be changed to fit 21st century standards e.g.: Midshipwoman Mastress and Commandress The questions are how much do we want to 'distort' history for the fun of it and what are the crucial historical aspects that need to be in NA to get fun and immersion (in terms of nations, gender, timeframe, ships...) ? Edited September 17, 2018 by LeBoiteux
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