OW Navigation

[Raf Van Boom]

Within a few nautical miles, that's the kind of precision they had around the time. So I don't know what a few nautical miles in game would look like but it seems like a good thing to have. Why overcomplicate things

[AeRoTR]

We already use F11, traders tool to find exact position. It is not a skill, it is basic. Just makes it hard for new players, not realistic at all, as 17th century captains were navigating with knowledge and tools at hand. A fake feature to hide the position.

Give us position of the ship. Position should be a small ship with a circle around. A ship is anywhere in that circle. A good accuracy is small circle, poor accuracy is a big circle.

Towns in sight accuracy of position is good.

No town in sight but can see the land, accuracy to medium.

No land and town in sight, accuracy falls from medium to poor for inceasing time at sea.

Land sighted accuracy to increase, time inceases when land at sight accuracy inceases to medium

Town in sight accuracy inceases to good.

Storm should decrease accuracy when no town is in sight.

[Grundgemunkey]

 i dont see what the fuss is about .. Even without f11 coords.. does anyone get lost ??

[z4ys]

52 minutes ago, admin said:

we will give an example from Rust 
initially they started without the map, then added them map that you had to uncover
then they added your location and initially veterans complained, but that complains stopped because everyone realized that identifying the location is not the core part of the game.

We initially did not want the map. but then community shown us the way when community map became very widely used and popular. 
We now do not want to show the location, but thinking logically the captain in 1790 could realistically identify his location with good enough precision.

We are very conflicted about this feature. 

 

Was precise coordinates part of the revenge gank problem back as we tested it?

[pietjenoob]

9 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

We already use F11, traders tool to find exact position. It is not a skill, it is basic. Just makes it hard for new players, not realistic at all, as 17th century captains were navigating with knowledge and tools at hand. A fake feature to hide the position.

Give us position of the ship. Position should be a small ship with a circle around. A ship is anywhere in that circle. A good accuracy is small circle, poor accuracy is a big circle.

Towns in sight accuracy of position is good.

No town in sight but can see the land, accuracy to medium.

No land and town in sight, accuracy falls from medium to poor for inceasing time at sea.

Land sighted accuracy to increase, time inceases when land at sight accuracy inceases to medium

Town in sight accuracy inceases to good.

Storm should decrease accuracy when no town is in sight.

though you had also things like the sextant for exemple to get a relative good position or by calculating speed, course and then u have a compass and a simple map and bow compass

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Was precise coordinates part of the revenge gank problem back as we tested it?

It was. Still is with F11.

 

[pietjenoob]

2 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

 i dont see what the fuss is about .. Even without f11 coords.. does anyone get lost ??

always 😜 well no actually not just try to remember your last location and and heading then you plot your rough position without the F11 tool that one is only usefull to get in close to friendly/enemy

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

IMHO I think best median solution could be:

Approximate position (sextant idea) pointed on map every 20 minutes with an error like 30-40*k.
Available perk "Navigator" (1 pt?) get extimated position every 10 minutes with an error reduced to 20*k.

Delete F11 coords, and port distances from trade tool at sea. 

*Edits

Edited September 17, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Edits

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

10k is nothing. 20k is horizon skyline cut landmass.

[Archaos]

This again becomes a topic where people can pick and choose when they use the reality argument. In reality yes, sailors of this time period did have sufficient tools to estimate their position fairly accurately at least once a day, they also had compasses and methods of estimating distance traveled and all this should lead to a conclusion that the player should be able to see their position on the map at least once in every 24 hour game period. But the other side of the coin is that in reality people were not able to communicate with each other over long distances to relay their position to others and there was no system of knowing your exact distance from various ports.

So at the end of the day a decision has to be taken as to what system the Devs feel is best for the game rather than try to simulate reality. Personally I manage to get round quite well with just the protractor and the distances from ports and sometimes use the F11 if I want to record the position of an epic event so I can return later, but I wouldn't mind an occasional you are here position indicator to appear maybe once every in game day and maybe not appearing when in poor visibility due to inability to take sights. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

ingame clock 11:30 - 12:30

if full stop in OW

marks, temporarily, the position of the ship ( each new marker removes the previous one )

map marker circle shadow equivalent to view range distance

remove F11

 

[Eyesore]

Just having the ability (ingame tools) to pinpoint your location and add a mark, yourself, on the map would be more than enough.

Automatically showing your position takes the whole navigating-part out of the game. F11 is just a 'cheat' during testing (as stated by admin, don't know where anymore and maybe not up-to-date anymore given his earlier reply in this thread).

It is not difficult to do, you just have to pay attention. It is another layer of situational awareness. All this radio and radar-stuff was not available in the timeperiod. The tradertool makes navigating extremely easy atm, impossible to get lost.

If you want to sail around, you have to learn how to navigate.

If you decide to change course in the middle of the ocean, then it is up to the captain to measure time and direction of the new course and compensate to get back on the original heading.

As for the people asking for grids ... there are lines you can draw from ports, and use the intersections as a sort of coordinate ...

[Eduard L'Aquila]

1 hour ago, admin said:

We initially did not want the map. but then community shown us the way when community map became very widely used and popular. 
We now do not want to show the location, but thinking logically the captain in 1790 could realistically identify his location with good enough precision.

This is another of those realism/gameplay conundrums - immersion is nice but, as you've stated, rough estimates of a ship's position isn't beyond a 1790's captain's ability. On top of that, gamers are use to minimaps and having one that doesn't show where they are can be frustrating to new or casual players.

Perhaps a skill (as in a book applied to a ship or a perk) could give the captain an even better location estimate.

Anecdotally, I enjoy having to use my brain to find out where I am but I only sail in straight lines when I'm beyond the sight of land.

[Jim Beamreach]

I like it to not know where i am. No i dont make a joke here. I was sailing Afk to a bottle get disconnectet. Get back to the Game after a few hours and Maintenance where between. I had the knowledege where i did come from and elaboratet my Location with the Tradetool 160k there 180k there and 140k too this port posible location coud be there. I startet heading forward to reach my bottle a view minutes later i arrived at the wreck.  

This are thinks i like to elaborate my owne Location. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Pinpoint accuracy kills more ships than the lack of exact knowledge.

Very very very very easy to camp your battle and wait your escape without any risk.

 

[Angus MacDuff]

28 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

ingame clock 11:30 - 12:30

if full stop in OW

marks, temporarily, the position of the ship ( each new marker removes the previous one )

map marker circle shadow equivalent to view range distance

remove F11

 

Noon sights.  Love it.  I would only add a scale on the map.  All maps/charts need to have a scale.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Noon sights.  Love it.  I would only add a scale on the map.  All maps/charts need to have a scale.

And some data of OW speed to distance ratios... Not very clear.

[Macjimm]

11 minutes ago, Eduard L'Aquila said:

On top of that, gamers are use to minimaps and having one that doesn't show where they are can be frustrating to new or casual players.

This could be true.  Gamers are used to lots of hints.  Like the magic icon/text that floats above players. 

But ...If the game is changed to add a position marker on the map, of a player's location, there will be no navigation.  Without any navigation, sailing will become more boring.  The ability to sail long distances and feel like you are finding your way, makes the experience interesting.

New players learn quickly that finding their way is easy. 

If an arcade position marker is added to the map please include an option to turn it off.  That way, those that enjoy navigating  can continue to do so.  

Also ...

The trader tool resection could be available only in port.  Like the protractor is currently.  But it doesn't hurt to leave it as is.  Some players like it.

A sextant would be helpful.  Keep it simple.  Just the grid co-ordinates.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

What gamers ?... there's no such thing as a universal "gamer" is there ?

Guys that compete everyday in iRacing have to learn the tracks by practice.

Pilots in non modern air sims still have to use dead reckoning and mental calcs of distance and speed.

Many milsim infantry games do not have any aids. Players have to practice, learn the maps, locations, etc.

Many many gamers that are in NA play games without any markers or gps.

 

Not against whatever, just asking a simple question - who do you mean when you say "gamers" ?

 

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

If an arcade position marker is added to the map please include an option to turn it off.  That way, those that enjoy navigating  can continue to do so.  

Will always leave you in a disadvantage and therefore fake in MP.

[qw569😳]

The players are so bored that they are trying to find a black cat in a dark room.

 

[Macjimm]

4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Will always leave you in a disadvantage and therefore fake in MP.

True.

But if I turn off chat I'm at a disadvantage.  If I do not use transparent sails I'm disadvantaged.

I would just prefer not to be forced to see a magic position marker on the map.

[Teutonic]

I would like to reasonably know where I am in the game without having to use f11 coords and a third party map.

Nothing wrong with felix's map - i just dislike how it....feels? Hard to explain.

I would enjoy a circle showing your estimated location as you sail around. As admin stated - sailors had the tools to be able to tell where they are.

Currently i just sail in straight lines from 1 port to the next. Both because I am lazy and because if I didn't I would probably get lost and have to use the coordinate 'cheat' to correct my heading.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Teutonic

[z4ys]

15 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I would like to reasonably know where I am in the game without having toheading....

not to afk sail is a good start for many I guess

Edited September 17, 2018 by z4ys

[Angus MacDuff]

50 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

True.

But if I turn off chat I'm at a disadvantage.  If I do not use transparent sails I'm disadvantaged.

I would just prefer not to be forced to see a magic position marker on the map.

I don't think its unreasonable to have a noon position.  Immersion would be fine for this as it was a standard part of their day to gather all the navigators with their sextants and take the sights.  We could even have days where the weather precludes noon sights.