Damage and sinking

[Captain Chemical]

Hi all, i realy like the game and the battles but i'am a little disappointed about the damage taken or given to the ships.
I would like to see railings shatter, large holes in the side and sink with the bow first or capsize or something like that.
Now it is always the same while no ship ever sinks the same.

[Jim Beamreach]

Yeah woud be a nice to have some variation in ship sinking. When the ship takes water from one side it coud capsize to the side where the Water gets in and Masts that fall or some things like this. 

But do we need it in the moment, i woud say no there are more important thinks that have to be done first. 

[Scrouch]

Not planned in roadmap.

Oh wait, still waiting for august's ship.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

16 minutes ago, Scrouch said:

waiting for august's ship

link ? thank you.

[Sir Malachy Karrde]

40 minutes ago, Scrouch said:

Not planned in roadmap.

Oh wait, still waiting for august's ship.

Augusts ship was the Diana and she's in game now.

[Sir Texas Sir]

40 minutes ago, Scrouch said:

Not planned in roadmap.

Oh wait, still waiting for august's ship.

Check you redeemable, unless your blind you should have the Diana in there just like every one else.

 

As for visible damage other than cannon ball hits it would take up a lot of resources in game that would bog down the game just like seeing cannon recoils and other things that have been left out for a reason.  If you ever been in a 25 vs 25 port battle you will know what FPS hit you take, specially when your talking about 1st rates with 100's of cannons.   A lot of folks don't see it as all they see right now is open world engagements or small BR port battles.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I think we are down to the last 3 days to redeem it too so make sure you let folks, I know a lot of folks are going to bitch once the redeem expires, but I'm hoping it's a craftable ship for sure.

 

[Scrouch]

Diana was gifted for testing.

It's not currently a new permanent ship. Can we craft Diana ? No.

Bye.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Scrouch

[Cecil Selous]

You sound like a sulky child. It will be craftable, but yeah, bye.

[Scrouch]

14 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

You sound like a sulky child. It will be craftable, but yeah, bye.

It will be. Not yet. So Diana can't be considered as added right now. 

[admin]

6 hours ago, Captain Chemical said:

Hi all, i realy like the game and the battles but i'am a little disappointed about the damage taken or given to the ships.
I would like to see railings shatter, large holes in the side and sink with the bow first or capsize or something like that.
Now it is always the same while no ship ever sinks the same

Large holes in the hull are not historical. There are multiple posts on this forum about this including links to real after battle combat damage drawings by british artists.
 

 

[Wilhelm von Seydlitz]

1 hour ago, Scrouch said:

Diana was gifted for testing.

It's not currently a new permanent ship. Can we craft Diana ? No.

Bye.

@Scrouch you are a tester. Did you forget that? You are here to test not to play. Read the steam rules for early acces.

If you can not do that then just wait for the release 😉

[AeRoTR]

When we hit sunk ships, they nicely roll over. So when ship is sunk it can roll over random side. Seems like not a big deal. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Captain Chemical said:

 

This is what a 24pd cannonball did to the hull on Vasa.  Start from 8:00 where you see what the ball did. It also traveled 500 meter further splitting a three (check part 2). The question is, maybe the thickness is abit to op in naval action (which will be fixed eventually). Also ships didnt sink unless being shot below the waterline, it was mostly disabling the crew with splinter damage from woodwork that made ships surrender/lose

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Guest

[Lovec1990]

13 minutes ago, Wyy said:

This is what a 24pd cannonball did to the hull on Vasa.  Start from 8:00 where you see what the ball did. It also traveled 500 meter further splitting a three (check part 2). The question is, maybe the thickness is abit to op in naval action (which will be fixed eventually). Also ships didnt sink unless being shot below the waterline, it was mostly disabling the crew with splinter damage from woodwork that made ships surrender/lose

 

Too bad this is not in game it will make fights more intresting

[StaleMemes]

4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Check you redeemable, unless your blind you should have the Diana in there just like every one else.

 

As for visible damage other than cannon ball hits it would take up a lot of resources in game that would bog down the game just like seeing cannon recoils and other things that have been left out for a reason.  If you ever been in a 25 vs 25 port battle you will know what FPS hit you take, specially when your talking about 1st rates with 100's of cannons.   A lot of folks don't see it as all they see right now is open world engagements or small BR port battles.

I once made the mistake of joining a 25v25 screening battle, and it was literally a slide show for me.

(My computer is very weak, I'm not dissing the optimization just pointing out that the lots of ships is already intensive without complex damage representation.)

1 hour ago, Lovec1990 said:

Too bad this is not in game it will make fights more intresting

I've always wanted a system where fights were decided by crew damage, cannon dislodgement, and internal structural damage rather than the current sinking mechanics. However, at this point its obvious that the developers have made a design choice to go with the current sinking based system and I can see why they did it. Trying to realistic model crew morale under fire accurately enough to be the deciding factor in every battle would be hard, and without forced surrender from heavy damage battles would be silly with ships fighting till the very last sailor, with nothing forcing a player to give up like a captain would historically. I think a good compromise could have been arrived at, but that ship has sailed (pun intended) and I can't fault the game labs for not going that route.

I do agree however that penetration and "bouncing" is way too important in game, to the point it destroys immersion for me personally. I would rather see penetrating shots do a lot of crew and cannon damage while weakening central structure, and have non penetrating hits damage side armor without damaging crew or dislodging cannons. I feel this would be a fair compromise from the sea trials system where armor was unimportant at anything but extreme range and the current system where tanks like l'ocean can shake off entire broadsides from equally sized ships without taking any damage, even at relatively close range. Planking thickness should matter, but people who want to play games centered around angling your armor to send the enemy shots whizzing and ricocheting away should probably play games like World of Tanks that have a historically feasible background for their mechanics. Naval Action's armor mechanics are (as far as I know) purely designed to inject more skill and complexity to the game without very much of a historic backing.

I can think of a lot of interesting ways to inject skill and complexity without sacrificing immersion. Crew management, for instance, is still very rudimentary, and the biggest objection I can think of against improving it is that complex crew management would be too difficult to manage in battle. Why not tune down the armor angling and damage mitigation meta, and instead introduce active crew morale, deck distribution, and training? This would make the game more immersive instead of less, unlike the armor mechanics.

tl;dr Better damage modeling would be too intensive, ships sinking unrealistically fast is a good game design choice the devs had to make, and the armor angling/bouncing meta damages immersion and is not necessary for complex skill based gameplay.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Capt Aerobane
edit tl;dr

[maturin]

Please put a trigger warning on posts containing E:TW screens.

Those "masts"... it turns my stomach.

And Sir Francis Drake wants his paint scheme back.

[Tiedemann]

Right now our hull gets filled with water while we sink, and we go straight down. In the future I would like a feature that can give catastrophic roll when you have water in the hull, and then this could result in capsizing. This should only be a thing when you have a lot of water in the hull, so only an issue when your sinking anyway.
Just to give some difference in the way we sink.

Would also be cool if ships could sink with front/rear down first, properly blow up etc, but that might be stuff for NA 2  

Edited September 10, 2018 by Tiedemann

[Angus MacDuff]

11 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

Right now our hull gets filled with water while we sink, and we go straight down. In the future I would like a feature that can give catastrophic roll when you have water in the hull, and then this could result in capsizing. This should only be a thing when you have a lot of water in the hull, so only an issue when your sinking anyway.
Just to give some difference in the way we sink.

Would also be cool if ships could sink with front/rear down first, properly blow up etc, but that might be stuff for NA 2  

You cant be looting a ship that is heavily angled or capsized.  Did wooden ships that don't have watertight bulkheads even sink the way we're discussing?  They would fill with water slowly and evenly...Staying upright and using their natural buoyancy from their wood build, wouldn't they?  I mean, all the odd angles that we see ships sinking with nowadays (Age of steel) are because of their modern building style.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

27 minutes ago, Flinch said:

Diana was added as promised as a redeemable for testing and given 15 days until it would be craftable.

 

 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, admin said:

Large holes in the hull are not historical. There are multiple posts on this forum about this including links to real after battle combat damage drawings by british artists.
 

 

But to be fair we have so much magic ingame, what's a few bigger inches on the holes?

[Werewolf]

On 9/9/2018 at 5:34 PM, maturin said:

Please put a trigger warning on posts containing E:TW screens.

Those "masts"... it turns my stomach.

And Sir Francis Drake wants his paint scheme back.

Ugh. Now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it. Thanks for ruining E:TW for me LOL