Self defense (muskets and deck cannons)

[Jaketon]

Hi, 

I've been thinking about this idea for a long time and I think it would bring a bit more realism to the game, avoiding the unreal situations that occur today in the game, such as a Hercules sticking to the band of a 3rd ship and sinking it. It is so simple that at a distance the boats begin to use self-defense in some way.

This self-defense is formed by muskets and deck cannons that diminish the crew of the approaching ship. I think that in this way the game will be more balanced and above all more adjusted to reality.

To avoid exploiting this skill the distance would establish it when they are very very close.

Other games that have something similar with the World of Warships that lighter deck cannons are activated automatically when approaching a ship at a distance.

Thk all.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Jaketon said:

Hi, 

I've been thinking about this idea for a long time and I think it would bring a bit more realism to the game, avoiding the unreal situations that occur today in the game, such as a Hercules sticking to the band of a 3rd ship and sinking it. It is so simple that at a distance the boats begin to use self-defense in some way.

This self-defense is formed by muskets and deck cannons that diminish the crew of the approaching ship. I think that in this way the game will be more balanced and above all more adjusted to reality.

To avoid exploiting this skill the distance would establish it when they are very very close.

Other games that have something similar with the World of Warships that lighter deck cannons are activated automatically when approaching a ship at a distance.

Thk all.

 

think its been proposed before, like the crewmen start fire muskets and swivel guns at targets withing say 100m

[Corona Lisa]

Such a feature kills the usefulness of 5th rates apart from being a circle cap bot in PBs and ganking traders

[Licinio Chiavari]

7 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Such a feature kills the usefulness of 5th rates apart from being a circle cap bot in PBs and ganking traders

Honestly frigates were not (nor should not be) used to sternrake to death ships of the line...

[StaleMemes]

Stern raking isn't a problem, and when making raking passes marines and swivels would not and should not be a problem. "Hugging" on the other hand in real life would be essentially boarding the enemy ship while in still in motion. Marines could fire directly down onto the crew on deck and in rigging, with no cover available. Just like in the middle of boarding action. A requin for instance can "duck" under the guns on many frigates. Pull a stunt like that on an actual ship and you will get slaughtered. Even If muskets aren't accurate so what, at that point they could just lob bombs over the side of the ship, you are literally crashing into them.

I think if two ships of unequal height stay at very close proximity to each other for a long time the smaller/lower/weaker ship should go into rigging and then crew shock after one to three minutes. If literally "hugging" then the deck guns and helm should become unresponsive as well.

As fun as it was hugging and raking a bellona to death with a single Hercules and an already damaged yacht, it was absurd honestly. The Bellona knew exactly what to do as well, turn upwind and board. Except that because the game then dropped his sails and stopped, him I could then come to a complete stop 5 feet off his stern (suicidal normally) and kill 150+ crew in 2 minutes by raking as fast as my cannons could load while his ship was stopped. 

Wack. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Such a feature kills the usefulness of 5th rates apart from being a circle cap bot in PBs and ganking traders

As stated above unless your right up on that stern under 50m (I think it would be better than 100m) than it wouldn't effect some one doing the stern racking.  What this option has been talked about is for side scraping/hugging of ships you should have small arms fire damage to crew.  It doesn't have to be insane OP, just make it risky for a small ship to do it to a big ships.  While to big ships would loose about the same crew from each other if they are side scraping each other.

[Percival Merewether]

How about a 50 meter radius like @Sir Texas Sir says, that only activates after 30 seconds of being in range.

Then it shouldn’t affect raking at all.

you could also limit it so that the crew will only defend on the sides of the ship.

[Sir Texas Sir]

21 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

How about a 50 meter radius like @Sir Texas Sir says, that only activates after 30 seconds of being in range.

Then it shouldn’t affect raking at all.

you could also limit it so that the crew will only defend on the sides of the ship.

Just like DD I think it could be activated only when you have Board prep up and running.  

[StaleMemes]

There are lots of ways to tune the system to fit specific situations, require strategy, and add depth. 

• The game knows what a ship's heel is at any moment (displayed on compass). Make the 1/(change in heel over the past 10 seconds) a coefficient of accuracy. This would mean that ships travelling at high speed, violently maneuvering can't accurately shoot at smaller vessels. A battle sails, extra ballast ship on the other hand will be very effective at removing admirals crew from the decks of surrounding ships. (Sorry Nelson :C)
• Less crew can fire over the back than the sides, so the bow and stern would have weaker musket and swivel fire.
• Customization like muskets and pistols increase the number of firearms that can be brought to bear. These modules would be a coefficient on damage.
• Customization like barricades decrease damage to crew and increase time before crew shock.
• Add "Crew on deck" and "crew in rigging" values. When two ships are in close contact, they will both kill enemy crewmen on deck and in rigging. These crew will slowly be replenished from below decks. As "crew on deck" decreases deck gun reloads, deck crew musket fire, and deck gun accuracy decrease. As "crew in rigging" decreases rigging crew musket fire, sail setting speed, and yard handling speed decrease if crew on rigging is low, rigging shock occurs. If a mast is lost, any crew on that mast when it collapses are lost.
• Crew on deck increases when in boarding mode. (This means that players must decide in battle between suppressing enemy crew, or focusing on their naval artillery.) Boarding prep could also be linked to crew on deck, making clearing the enemy's deck of crew important before boarding. Determined Defender could also be linked to this. Heck, maybe even just straight disallow boarding until the enemies decks have been somewhat cleared.
• Cannon fire and grape shot to the deck area decreases effectiveness of AOE muskets. This would allow firepower based builds to counter rage boarding type strategies by weakening their AOE attack before they close range.

I don't think that a system like this would require much work, its mostly taking existing mechanics, doing some simple math with them, and applying the outcomes to enemy crew, reloads, and sail handling. Call me crazy, but I think this would improve the dynamic between light vessels and lineships, and make lineship boarding more interesting while eliminating the possibility of "rage boarding" even though I don't think it was ever a real problem.

[Magallanes]

At close range a small group of  first rate crew (200-300) handling muskets will desvastate open deck of Hercules or similar ships...so the actual game mechanic where small frigates attack big ships is far to be credible... 

and now we must ear the "pvp players" telling opposite arguments,,,🤔

Edited September 4, 2018 by Magallanes

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Magallanes said:

At close range a small group of  first rate crew (200-300) handling muskeets will desvastate open deck of Hercules or similar ships...so the actual game mechanic where small frigates attack big ships is far to be credible... 

and now we must ear the "pvp players" telling opposite arguments,,,🤔

not to mention the grenades they would throw onto the ship right next to it

[Guest]

@admin is it a chance one can render crew on other ships thats withing grenade/musket range (100m) for secondary armament? I mean resized crew thats not on the size as the long cannons we have today or would it be to much fps/server load?

Also the crew at your own ship is shown at all times

Edited September 4, 2018 by Guest

[Lovec1990]

im tottaly supporting this it will totaly make requins reconsider hugging bigger ship becouse open ship with 250crew+ would have severe crew casualites

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

broadside damage based on ship tonnage.

260 tons xebec vs 1065 tons trinc

(4x ) 4.1 HP loss for each 1 HP on the trinc

4x because more than 4 times less the weight. ( if it would be 3 times less, would be 3x )

4.1 and 1 are simply the ratios.

[Liq]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

broadside damage based on ship tonnage.

260 tons xebec vs 1065 tons trinc

(4x ) 4.1 HP loss for each 1 HP on the trinc

4x because more than 4 times less the weight. ( if it would be 3 times less, would be 3x )

4.1 and 1 are simply the ratios.

You cant just calculate that this easily. Bouncing, turning and angling are big factors. While the trinc is pretty un agile and bounces close to nothing even when angled 45°, getting half your broadside to hit a xebec can be considered a good result.

Xebec should be way more of a paper ship. Its thickness is way too high.

Equally able captains, requin v trinc or herc v trinc, i think the trinc would lose most engagements (except if you count running away downwind a win)

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I meant that regarding planking crashing into each other while sailing at speed touching and rough tough each other.

Pure arbitrary fantasy ruling.

 

[Tiedemann]

I like OP suggestion, but I would like it more if it was directional. So at the BOW and stern the effect of this suggestion should be reduced compared to on the broadsides. Then small ships still pose a threat.  

Damage difference between a 42 pd and a 9 pd is imo ridiculous low when you consider the difference in size and that the 9 pd has a faster reload. 42 pounder is more than 4+ times larger than a 9 pounder, so for me it makes sense if the 42 pounder cannon ball would do 4+ times the damage. 1 good broadside from a 1. rate should destroy a small ship.     

I also think we should get the ability to board at speed at when ships are hugging and the speed difference is low.

Both of these inputs will probably require a lot of work and re balancing so nm xD

[Jaketon]

The developers can debug the mechanics for this type of situations but I think that in general this option must be contemplated to avoid the constant and ridiculous situations that are currently occurring and that often cause players to abandon the game.

The exploit of the boats with low height and little length is based on a ridiculous relationship. The third line boat (3er/Bellona/Pavel/etc)  only reaches 6 of its guns to the small ship and this with all the guns of its band. In the case of carronadas it does more damage than 3ª simple but pathetic.

I think that among all you can look for a solution