Patch 26. Spanish Frigate Diana, BR rebalance - Diana is a timed reward.

[Corona Lisa]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

the number 8 can be changed in no time.

Yes. Just like PvP zone RoE, Wasa, mods, ships in general, thickness .............

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yes. Just like PvP zone RoE, Wasa, mods, ships in general, thickness .............

First you need some data. Feelings are most of the time a lie. Data takes time to be meaningful.

[Barbancourt]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think the primary point that everyone is missing is that hugging was only ever an issue for inexperienced players. 

Which is...the majority of us. 

[Tac]

I predict a 1st rate clusterf**ck,just saying.

[Corona Lisa]

10 minutes ago, z4ys said:

First you need some data. Feelings are most of the time a lie. Data takes time to be meaningful.

agreed

 

However you dont need to wait 10 months to fix some numbers. Im not talking about perfect balance, just gamebreaking very obvious stuff which can be solved just by changing some numbers. Sadly thats how it seems to work here. They look at a topic, do what they think is best and move on without looking back at it for months .

Edited September 19, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[qw569😳]

6 hours ago, admin said:

There were no ropes and no-one pulled in aggressive non consensual boardings. Ships got alongside each other pushing bowsprit into rigging or just rigging into rigging and got entangled. Nothing got torn out. 8 knots its just 15km/h in water. Pulling is needed in game because physx cannot do math on proper rigging entanglement without lowering FPS to 0

PhysX is NVIDIA technology.

Does this mean that NVIDIA cards are more preferable for Naval Action?

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

8 knots to board? EIGHT? Holy balls, when I said I was happy that the speed limits for boarding were relaxed, I didn't mean they were tossed right out the window.

Bad move.

[maturin]

On 9/17/2018 at 7:05 AM, Fluffy Fishy said:

That is very interesting, I have long had suspicions that the 13kn often stated as constitution's top speed was rather dubious, I'm also interested to know if the 12-13kn quotations are her flying studdings too.

I just struggle to beleive a ship built as heavily as she is with such weighty woods would be nearly as spritely as people often beleive her to be, especially considering how much mass she had in the water, sadly however I haven't seen data either way to confirm or deny my suspicions. I have however seen quite a few reports looking at her and her two sisters disappointing speed and handling during their first years of sailing and how much work went into improvong both these characteristics.

The more I look into her performance and architecture the more i doubt her status as a frigate at all and the more she looks like a new breed of 50 gun ship with more modern dimensions ironing out some of the flaws of the old 50s similarly as do the ships who follow her style into the 19th century.

Your skepticism is misplaced.

13 kts as the highest recorded speed comes from the Constitution Museum, which is a more authoritative source than any individual book written about her.

Also, no one is going to make 13 knots when flying studdingsails, because you only use stuns'ls when the wind is too light reach your best speed anyway. Constitution was a big, powerful ship and would have made her records in a stiff breeze of over 15 kts, just like the line of battle ships that are recorded to have made 12 and 13 kts. Are you skeptical about those reports too?

You are using painfully videogame-inflected logic when you cast doubt on the weight of the live oak. These are not airplanes. Weight does not matter. It just makes your draft deeper, and all these large warships are designed to be laden deep and sailed hard. Some extra heft helps you out with it comes to slamming through the seas. The Lively-class frigates sailed worse as their center of gravity became higher.

At the end of the day, size is the close companion of speed. Any large, well-found ship with a 3.5:1 length:breadth ratio and a high sail area:displacement ratio ought to be a flyer, even if she has a very deep draft due to weighty construction. In the 19th Century the cargos only got bigger and the drafts deeper, but the speeds doubled.

Quote

I have however seen quite a few reports looking at her and her two sisters disappointing speed and handling during their first years of sailing and how much work went into improvong both these characteristics.

And yet there is a log entry recording a speed of 14 kts over a several hour period. This in the Med, a decade of more after the end of the War of 1812.

There is a clear-cut record of a new design with significant teething problems that were resolved in time. The first British razees and the French 24-pounder frigates went through the same process.

Quote

The more I look into her performance and architecture the more i doubt her status as a frigate at all and the more she looks like a new breed of 50 gun ship with more modern dimensions ironing out some of the flaws of the old 50s similarly as do the ships who follow her style into the 19th century.

But Fama is a two-decker super frigate, right?

[maturin]

On 9/17/2018 at 8:06 AM, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

 I've sailed on her when she was pulling 13.2 in a light breeze, and then in a post to someone else, state a log entry someone else found of her doing 15 knots. Seems you are just butt hurt because an American super frigate was better than anything the Brits came up with to combat her. 

No you didn't, unless you want to let me borrow your time machine.

Constitution has only sailed outside the confines of Boston harbor once in living memory. She set her topsails in mild weather and made 4-6 kts (perfectly respectable in those conditions). Are you sure you want to claim that an 18th Century warship was sailing faster than the wind?

I think you need to accept that you have very little expertise in this topic.

I live two hours from Boston and have toured Constitution several times. It's always a great trip, but I could name a few factual errors the Navy guides have made just in my experience, so it's not much of a claim to authority. Your accusations of bias are extremely petulant and shabby and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Edit:

This is a great read. https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2017/08/04/eagle-of-the-seas/

In 1997 she made 4.5 kts under topsails alone in 7 kts of breeze. In case anyone cared to doubt her record for ghosting along in light airs and outrunning British pursuers. Some ships would barely be moving, if you refer to windspeed tables compiled by Boudriot.

And really, if the ship were really an overweight pig, pinned down by the supposedly prodigious mass of all that live oak, certainly a light breeze would be when you would notice the defect?

 

[Fenris]

3 hours ago, William Death said:

I can't help but feel we're trying to address a small issue here (hull hugging and stern camping that most players *should* know how to counter), but creating bigger issues with far more devastating consequences

Cough, cough....

You nailed it mate,but is this really something new?

 

[Sven Silberbart]

9 hours ago, admin said:

• Boarding max speed increased to 8 knots (previously around 4 knots). 
  • speed difference between your ship and enemy ship was lowered and now cannot exceed 5 knots to board (previously it was 8 knots).
  • Both vessels must sail below 8 knots.

Test failed, i would say.

Every ship max boarding fitted. 😞

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Test failed, i would say.

Every ship max boarding fitted. 😞

You could just use barricades and boarding axes which would give you 3 knowledge slots advantage over someone whos full boarding.

[Palatinose]

1 hour ago, Tac said:

I predict a 1st rate clusterf**ck,just saying.

You mean like that?

Barricades and a basic knowledge of boarding prevents this though.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

You mean like that?

Barricades and a basic knowledge of boarding prevents this though.

Looks awesome. Surprised by the outcome just by looking at the players.

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Anolytic said:

Actually this change should make Epics much easier. Just go all boarding fit and board all the AI. There is no longer any difficulty in tricking the AI into boarding situations.

9 super tanked AI against 6 ships, three of those ships will be sinking you while your in boarding and AI has buff board mods, so unless you have a clue and half the players in this game can't board even against AI and will loose.

I have killed AI in epics with boarding but it was after we even the numbers out a bit and all I did was held the ship while two others sunk it.  Other wise you take a good crew hit against them.  By going speed fit you loose other things like planking and reload/pen mods you could stack.

9 hours ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

You can. But won't be close enough so the "AI stops shooting". Test it. You won't be pulled if you keep at 100m, this is a guarantee, but the AI will be shooting back and not fall into the "not shooting back" routine.

 

9 hours ago, z4ys said:

no more hugging ai so they dont shoot ;D I love it

If you both actually played in a nation that is filled with Casual players you would know that most of them never get close enough to rubber neck with the AI cause they are so affraid to get pulled back when we had the old board speed pull.   Casuals don't do the rubber neck to kill AI cause they don't fire back.  Most folks have no clue about that.....but hay ya'll are a bunch of exerts of this game and should know how casuals play....oh wait you don't play with any......

[Palatinose]

26 minutes ago, Flinch said:

Looks awesome. Surprised by the outcome just by looking at the players.

? We had so many 1sts more. Have you been to sweden? Many carebears but some pvpers aswell. It was interesting and good that it was an unimportant battle to test the new mechanics. Honest thx to our foes.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Flinch said:

Looks awesome. Surprised by the outcome just by looking at the players.

are you surprised that the 11 first rate fleet lost vs the 25 first rate fleet? also 15 out of 25 l'oceans vs 6 out of 11 l'oceans

[Palatinose]

Btw. we were just discussing on comms about the crew mod/book/trim nerfs. We had a pretty good balance regarding these mods UNTIL the Requin made many people feel (and obviously - following  @admins argumentation - numbers supported that) something had to be done. Now we have a system in which crew space "planking" doesn't make sense, the cool and pretty cheap upgrade of Light Ship Hammocks got heavily nerfed by 2/3rds. The nerf of Cramped/Very cramped I can understand regarding the other trims.

Basically I want to say that these nerfs made a cut in variety. I dearly hope, that the coming rework of mods balances the overall mess that is created by the stacking. Perhaps a rebuff for the crew thingies could be done then.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Btw. we were just discussing on comms about the crew mod/book/trim nerfs. We had a pretty good balance regarding these mods UNTIL the Requin made many people feel (and obviously - following  @admins argumentation - numbers supported that) something had to be done. Now we have a system in which crew space "planking" doesn't make sense, the cool and pretty cheap upgrade of Light Ship Hammocks got heavily nerfed by 2/3rds. The nerf of Cramped/Very cramped I can understand regarding the other trims.

Basically I want to say that these nerfs made a cut in variety. I dearly hope, that the coming rework of mods balances the overall mess that is created by the stacking. Perhaps a rebuff for the crew thingies could be done then.

now we need maintenance for sols and nerf the thickness/buff penetration so that 24's and 18's can pen lineships

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Flinch said:

You could just use barricades and boarding axes which would give you 3 knowledge slots advantage over someone whos full boarding.

some one full board fit can still beat you, barricades isn't a catch all even with the buff.  We shouldn't have to be force to have one knowledge on all our ships to counter bad game mechanics.  The shallows already been a bad cluster hello kitty of board fit ships just smashing other side of the team that came to brawl not play rock paper........you can get the point.

 

5 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If it's so noobish... Why so many scared?

Why so few able to handle properly one?

To be honest most folks have no clue how to play the board game and what to do to counter actions. I get in boards all the time and watch the other guy just smash buttons with no clue which with them not having board prep means almost instant win for me if I have even one board mod (barricades normally) and Prep up.

3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Rename the old Connie and change the color of it. Maybe even a poll with names  

Just call it 'HEAVY FRIGATE' and be done with it.  Make it for sold for CM and craftable.  

[Haggard Blanc]

@admin what are your plans for boarding?

Being a player in Oceania with at best 280 (normally 300+) ping the current "minigame" is seems nearly impossible for me to be effective or survive against a competent opponent. (300ms ping + avg 220ms reflex response + input lag = no adjusting to last second opponent changes).

It doesn't matter how boarding is initiated for a player like me (old system or this new update), I am always at a disadvantage and have to take a hit to my perk/upgrade/knowledge setup because of my distance to the server.

If people think I should still be able to do more than just survive until I disengage - like actually win - please give me a detailed description; taking into account that I can press a button with 1 second to go and have the server not register it 😂

Edited September 19, 2018 by Haggard Blanc
fix tag

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 hours ago, jodgi said:

Just to be safe; That model is based on very old info. At a glance it still looks fine, tho...

Yah that was from back when it was actually better to use Muskets or Grenades against defend than broad side.  You always saved the broad side for once you got low on crew cause the others where more powerfull from the start.  Some one should update that chart so we can show it to the new players and casuals with no clue.

6 hours ago, z4ys said:

A small hint for all forum readers and boarding lovers:

• Get the captain defender perk (5 prepared for defend)
• Equip marines and barricades in ship knowledge
• Don't use DD perk
• Get boarded destroy the enemy by surprise

You don't even need marines just put 5rings on if you have it and or muskets or axe's.  I liked pulling folks, bashing there crew and than dropping them to be way under crew for every one to sink or just holding them in brace until some one sinks them.  Been doing this for a long time.  It's the only way I have sunk shallow ships with my mortar brig...lol

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Haggard Blanc said:

@admin what are your plans for boarding?

Being a player in Oceania with at best 280 (normally 300+) ping the current "minigame" is seems nearly impossible for me to be effective or survive against a competent opponent. (300ms ping + avg 220ms reflex response + input lag = no adjusting to last second opponent changes).

😂

How about we NOT have any information about what move the opponent planning, or their prep/morale/etc?  (Why do we know their exact prep number?)  Kill the rock/paper/scissors/spock stuff.  Just crew numbers and decide what action you want to queue up for the next round. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Barbancourt

[Liq]

On 9/17/2018 at 5:36 PM, admin said:

le requin cant keep up with anything at 180.

Okay so after testing the changes today, I must say I dont like it at all

Faced a requin in my herc. 300 ish crew vs 200 on my herc. The changes gave me three options

• Do as you proposed and go 180°, run away and deny a fight (boooring)
• Decide to "fight" the Requin at beam reach, don't turn at all - basically broadside vs broadside, guess who's gonna win the DPS battle? 32s carros on a Requin sitting low in the water or 12pd mediums? Aka. getting hugged,
• Try fighting properly with turns included, which is extremely dangerous. Any turn to about beam reach or a little further result in getting below 8 knots --> get boarded, game over. (The requin won't turn off your side while you performing the turns.)

So overall first day of testing has me not liking the changes.

[Haggard Blanc]

40 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

How about we NOT have any information about what move the opponent planning, or their prep/morale/etc?  (Why do we know their exact prep number?)  Kill the rock/paper/scissors/spock stuff.  Just crew numbers and decide what action you want to queue up for the next round. 

That could work, although then we are relying on luck if the action attack and defence number stay the same as you could easily walk into crew shock.

If the devs want to keep the current boarding minigame, one option could be to increase the prep loss for late decisions more, and/or add a full cycle cooldown from that action or just less - so if you chose attack at 2 seconds to go you would have to wait until the next round gets to around 2 seconds to go to chose another move which costs a lot of prep?