Patch 26. Spanish Frigate Diana, BR rebalance - Diana is a timed reward.

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

the br change is intresting and i'd have to see how it will work since raising the br of certain ships wil simply degrade their overall performance just so they get lowered back down in the future? i guess i'll have to see what kind off effect it has i'm still hoping they'll just limit the types of ships you can take and thus making frigates matter again

Edited August 28, 2018 by Lord Amplify of Key West

[z4ys]

Will mods/knowledge influence BR as well?

In my opinion an elite modded ship shouldn't have the same BR as a basic modded ship.

Edited August 28, 2018 by z4ys

[Guest]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Will mods/knowledge influence BR as well?

interesting thought 15br for northern master carps etc people would be forced not to stack all the rarest mods to be able to use the ship for a pb

Edited August 28, 2018 by Guest

[Archaos]

6 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

i agree, but first im not sure Diana will be DLC ship

Even if its not a DLC ship it should still be properly tested. If the Le Requin and Hercules had to be crafted you would still see just as many of them as you do now, probably more even as people would craft them and sell the basic ones off cheap.

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

So am I crazy, or are the other API data users out there not actually seeing any changes in the ship data for this patch?  Nothing has been updated as far as I can see in the ship information with regards to speeds, BR, etc.?  Has the API data just not been updated since yesterday?

we know you're crazy... 😜

[Havelock]

9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Will mods/knowledge influence BR as well?

In my opinion an elite modded ship shouldn't have the same BR as a basic modded ship.

I agree to the extent that a well modded ship has better combat capabilities... but how can you plan a PB if every ship has different BR based on their mods?

[Nelsons Barrel]

1 minute ago, Havelock said:

I agree to the extent that a well modded ship has better combat capabilities... but how can you plan a PB if every ship has different BR based on their mods?

All go out at once and click at the same time to join and who gets in gets in.

[Tom Farseer]

44 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Why is the Diana so nicely low in the water but the Trincomalee and L'Hermione and Le Gros Ventre stand so high ?

To be fair if the game modeled heavier seas and thus more water intake via gunports, sitting low would not quite be so nice^^ One of the greatest advantages of frigates constructed in the second half of the 1700s was the higher distance between waterline and main gundeck.
But yeah there are some ship who sit a bit excessively high *coughVictorycough*
Overall I very much like the Patch notes, we shall see how the BR adptations will play out.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Tom Farseer

[admin]

7 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I agree to the extent that a well modded ship has better combat capabilities... but how can you plan a PB if every ship has different BR based on their mods?

If BR is affected by performance (and adjusted monthly until it stabilizes) - then mods indirectly affect the BR: better mods influence - better performance
upgrades are already rebalanced in internal builds - 23 unique groups for upgrades, some books changed or removed based on logic (hand combat book is knowledge, boarding ax is not knowledge but an item(upgrade))

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I agree to the extent that a well modded ship has better combat capabilities... but how can you plan a PB if every ship has different BR based on their mods?

set the amount of BR you want each ship to have and go from there.

[jodgi]

18 minutes ago, Archaos said:

If the Le Requin and Hercules had to be crafted you would still see just as many of them as you do now, probably more even as people would craft them and sell the basic ones off cheap.

I really hope you're right as that would kill off the "DLC ships ruined the game" argument.

[Havelock]

Just now, admin said:

If BR is affected by performance (and adjusted monthly until it stabilizes) - then mods are indirectly affect the BR: better mods influence - better performance
upgrades are already rebalanced in internal builds - 23 unique groups for upgrades, some books changed or removed based on logic (hand combat book is knowledge, boarding ax is not knowledge but an item(upgrade))

Yeah sure but i think what z4ys meant was that for every mod you install/select the BR goes up by x amount. That would make it way to hard to set up a team composition.

Offtopic: Some upgrades dont really make sense though; why is Extra Planking a knowledge? Do they add planking from the inside temporarily or what? Im not asking to have it changed, i think its good to have HP upgrades for both knowledge and permanent slots. Other example is Nassau Borders/Fencing Masters. I mean, these are actual humans with special professions, right? Why are they permanent?

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

If BR is affected by performance (and adjusted monthly until it stabilizes) - then mods indirectly affect the BR: better mods influence - better performance
upgrades are already rebalanced in internal builds - 23 unique groups for upgrades, some books changed or removed based on logic (hand combat book is knowledge, boarding ax is not knowledge but an item(upgrade))

Isn't that system only fair to the player who has all the fancy stuff that was used to create that br?

For example let's look a prince that was a highly specialized ship used by minority of players that knew what they were doing. 

Regarding to data it's need an updated br. Now place an average player in that ship. It will underperform.

Edited August 28, 2018 by z4ys

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

At last we the Spanish frigate too . Nice .

[huliotkd]

3 hours ago, admin said:

• Major BR rebalance
  • We are gradually moving away from the static BR based on HP and DPS characteristics and will also consider several other factors including battle performance data. 
  • How it will work
    • Ships with much lower performance statistics will have lower BR even if they are a higher class vessel. For example 2nd rate pavel having a much worse battle performance than 3rd rate Bellona will have a lower BR than Bellona. 
  • The changes will be applied gradually as full performance based BR is currently impossible as it will break old mission system. Once new mission system is added in September we will let battle performance influence the ship BR slightly more.
  • This will mostly affect the port battles and will require captains to recalculate their battle plans for future conquests.

 

please, explain more.

you talk about ''performance statistics'' so i can understand they are speed,thickness,turn rate ecc ecc? for example, does a basic bellona have a lower BR than a basic Pavel but puttin some mods on bellona, her performance get better and her BR raise up? so will be the BR based on ''mods''?

or the ''other data'' are intended as how many times you used that specific ships in battle, how many pvp you earned in that ship (that ship intended as class of the ship or that specific ship named Mary that is better than the same class ship Berta but never used in battle?)?

 

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Havelock said:

Offtopic: Some upgrades dont really make sense though; why is Extra Planking a knowledge? Do they add planking from the inside temporarily or what? Im not asking to have it changed, i think its good to have HP upgrades for both knowledge and permanent slots. Other example is Nassau Borders/Fencing Masters. I mean, these are actual humans with special professions, right? Why are they permanent?

officers and specialists will come back after release - and will fix most of the problems with strange books, strange perks, etc.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

please, explain more.

you talk about ''performance statistics'' so i can understand they are speed,thickness,turn rate ecc ecc? for example, does a basic bellona have a lower BR than a basic Pavel but puttin some mods on bellona, her performance get better and her BR raise up? so will be the BR based on ''mods''?

or the ''other data'' are intended as how many times you used that specific ships in battle, how many pvp you earned in that ship (that ship intended as class of the ship or that specific ship named Mary that is better than the same class ship Berta but never used in battle?)?

 

If I understand correctly br will be based on kill to death ratio of that ship.

[admin]

2 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

please, explain more.

you talk about ''performance statistics'' so i can understand they are speed,thickness,turn rate ecc ecc? for example, does a basic bellona have a lower BR than a basic Pavel but puttin some mods on bellona, her performance get better and her BR raise up? so will be the BR based on ''mods''?

or the ''other data'' are intended as how many times you used that specific ships in battle, how many pvp you earned in that ship (that ship intended as class of the ship or that specific ship named Mary that is better than the same class ship Berta but never used in battle?)?

 

long term K/D and usage rate takes average and meta mods and ship popularity and usefullness into account. 

[HamBlower]

12 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I agree to the extent that a well modded ship has better combat capabilities... but how can you plan a PB if every ship has different BR based on their mods?

I think this could be planned as well as today. Maybe the sheet will be a bit more trickier but in my opinion it sounds  good. At the Moment first rate portbattles are boring. Thickness, thickness, thickness...

Maybe faster ships with less hulls will have lesser BR and you can arrange therefore a fleet with more ships. More ships more guns...

2 minutes ago, Havelock said:

Offtopic: Some upgrades dont really make sense though; why is Extra Planking a knowledge? Do they add planking from the inside temporarily or what? Im not asking to have it changed, i think its good to have HP upgrades for both knowledge and permanent slots. Other example is Nassau Borders/Fencing Masters. I mean, these are actual humans with special professions, right? Why are they permanent?

 

14 minutes ago, admin said:

If BR is affected by performance (and adjusted monthly until it stabilizes) - then mods are indirectly affect the BR: better mods influence - better performance
upgrades are already rebalanced in internal builds - 23 unique groups for upgrades, some books changed or removed based on logic (hand combat book is knowledge, boarding ax is not knowledge but an item(upgrade))

Some changes between books and permanent would be nice

 

 

[huliotkd]

5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

If I understand correctly br will be based on kill to death ratio of that ship.

so my Requin will have 2k BR

 

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

@admin 

and anyone knowledgeable of such things.

Why is the Diana so nicely low in the water but the Trincomalee and L'Hermione and Le Gros Ventre stand so high ?

Because she’s ridiculously over-gunned in her 1815 configuration. 

[Malachi]

How did they fit 26 24-pounders on a 144' vessel anyway? 

All I've found regarding her armament are 12- , 6-pounders and 24-pound obusiers but maybe I haven't looked in the right places.^^

Edited August 28, 2018 by Malachi

[z4ys]

14 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

so my Requin will have 2k BR

 

It's not your personal rating it's the average of all players.

[Percival Merewether]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Spanish Diana - carried 12lb in 1793, but started carrying 24lb in 1815
And its dimensions give her the weight and displacement that is a bit lower than Trincomalee.

I'd rather not doubt what you're saying - but I'm pretty sure you're wrong:

This is the 1815 configuration I've found:

• 6 Spanish 24-Pound Obusier
• 26 Spanish 12-Pounder
• 6 Spanish 6-Pounder

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2788

Like @Malachi says.. I really cannot imagine how they can fit 26, 24lb cannons on that ship.

EDIT: Another reference, but I think it's the same source as the above mentioned:

http://3decks.pbworks.com/w/page/914869/HCMF Diana (1792)

Edited August 28, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Sella]

I hope that Diana won't have a full 24pdr deck like others have mentioned. 

Also I am not really sure if a BR based on statistics will be a good idea. I've had a bad experience in warthunder with the same system. BRs tend to be arbitrary.