Battle Ratings ( post DLC )

[Old Crusty]

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

lets consider deepwater br as working. So worst ship (cerb 110BR) and best ship Santi (605BR) makes a ratio of 5.5

Applying that to shallow BR

Lynx and Herc ( which i consider worst and best shallow ship) should have a ratio of 5.5 as well

Why separate shallow and deep water BR? If there was never a chance for those ships to be in the same battle then it would be fine. But shallow and deep ships are in same battle all the time.

The BR of a ship has NOTHING to do with shallow or deep, or what “RATE” the ship is.

   The absolute and only consideration for BR should be a ships power in battle. 

   With the BR balanced and correct, there could never be an OP ship. You could have a 7th Rate Cutter mounting 400 crew and 60 32 pound cannons. As long as the BR is reflected and the PvP rewards high enough for sinking, then the ship cannot be considered OP.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Old Crusty said:

The BR of a ship has NOTHING to do with shallow or deep, or what “RATE” the ship is.

Regarding the PBs the visible common variable is the BR.

All shallow PB ships are 80 or less.

That should be a clue that BR is indeed one of the indicators, as good or as bad as it sounds.

[Old Crusty]

55 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Regarding the PBs the visible common variable is the BR.

All shallow PB ships are 80 or less.

That should be a clue that BR is indeed one of the indicators, as good or as bad as it sounds.

Have you read anything in this entire thread? Your statement here is what is wrong, and what is being discussed.   The BR of ships is BROKEN. The idea that all 6th rate ships need a BR of 80 so they can be in a shallow port battles is absolutely ridiculous and is one of the biggest causes of the problems with the Le Requin ( Le Requirement).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Have you noticed there a specific mechanic linked to the ship BR regarding a ship entering or not a shallow PB ?

That's where the line in the sand is drawn.

Thanks.

[Old Crusty]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Have you noticed there a specific mechanic linked to the ship BR regarding a ship entering or not a shallow PB ?

That's where the line in the sand is drawn.

Thanks.

We all know this. That is what is broken.

BR should have nothing to do with shallow, deep, color, or sexual orientation. 

BR=Battle Rating. In reality, is a ships battle performance do to its strengths and weaknesses, or do to the ports it can enter? So why should the Battle Rating of a ship be the determining factor on weather or not it can enter a port battle?

when it is accepted that the only factor that bears on weather or not a ship can enter a SHALLOW water port battle, is weather or not a ship can sail in SHALLOW water, then the DEVELOPERS and PROGRAMMERS, of this fine game can then give the “Le Requirement” a BR of about 160 and still allow it in a shallow port battle. Then the Hercules could get a Battle Rating of about 150 and be able to enter shallow port battles.

i am sorry if I was rude earlier. No excuse. This is so very frustrating that it is hard for people to understand that the BR of a ship actually means something and is critical to the game.

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, Old Crusty said:

Why separate shallow and deep water BR?

who is talking about that?

The proposal was to lift deep water ship BR by 120. So a cerb with current 110BR becomes 230BR and a Santi with 605BR becomes 725

That would allow to give shallow ships a wider BR range.

Or do you think that the BR difference (25BR) of pickle 55BR vs Heavy Ratlle 80BR refelcts in any way the difference of the ships.

To make it more easy for you to understand if you look at the pickle vs hrattle. compared to deepwater standards i would look at surprise vs coni that is a BR difference of 135.

In my little world that difference refelcts better the capability of those ships as a BR difference of 25.

 

With that wider BR range and reworking shallow port battle BRs a mono team of xebecs could just field 12 xebecs while a mono team of princes could field 25 players

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

No worries Crusty. The game can be very eclectic at times, especially because there's too much information to process.

You are truly right in the assessments, that it shouldn't be the BR but the ship architecture.

Alas, like any good wargame, some part of the rulebook might not be perfect. Sometimes due to constraints from other rules that give way to that specific one. Other time simply as a "token".

One of the exercises we liked to do in the club was to find the real value of something to put in the table, was just theory craft in the end but everyone had interesting approaches.

Many went with the lethality values - mix of troop training and equipment, others went with more focus on morale and capability of withstanding the engagements ( stamina and moral ). Others went as far as calculating the values of raising the troops, training them, arming, deploying in the campaign etc.

BR is flat. It rules entry to PBs and capability to engage in the Open World. A ship with 80BR cannot successfully attack a ship of 500BR, one on one. Message of "BR too high" will show.

Hope it clears some doubts regarding why BR is used.

What we discuss here specifically is how to improve that rule to accommodate the new ships and, who knows, any future ones.

  

[Old Crusty]

4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

That would allow to give shallow ships a wider BR range.

 

Think!!!!! The only limit to shallow water BR right now is because the DEVELOPERS made it a requirement to enter a shallow water port battle that the BR of a ship be 80 or less. 

The BR of shallow and deep water ships can overlap!!!!!!!! A 6th rate shallow water Le Requirement, can and should have a BR that is way higher than a deep water 5th rate Cerberus. 

Understand???

[z4ys]

Just now, Old Crusty said:

Think!!!!! The only limit to shallow water BR right now is because the DEVELOPERS made it a requirement to enter a shallow water port battle that the BR of a ship be 80 or less. 

The BR of shallow and deep water ships can overlap!!!!!!!! A 6th rate shallow water Le Requirement, can and should have a BR that is way higher than a deep water 5th rate Cerberus. 

Understand???

of the limit of 80 would be increased to 200. but while cerb (smallest deep water ship would have 225BR it still could not enter a shallow pb)

The BR is in place because player were able to teleport deep water ships into shallow water via tows. and therefore would made them able to join those battles.

Imagine a defender would tow his trincs or whatever to nassau while the attacker is around in mercs. Furthermore sometimes the PB join circle can overlap into deep water should 1st join because of that?

[Angus MacDuff]

The way I understood BR was as an arbitrary value that the Devs use to limit PB populations and stop silly tagging practices.  Crusty I see where you want the BR to be a realistic value of a ship's fighting capability, but I don't think the Devs really care about that.  It's just a tool...not an indicator.

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

The way I understood BR was as an arbitrary value that the Devs use to limit PB populations and stop silly tagging practices.  Crusty I see where you want the BR to be a realistic value of a ship's fighting capability, but I don't think the Devs really care about that.  It's just a tool...not an indicator.

if i am not mistaken BR is a value of Hull area + canons count + (crew?) and some fantasy numbers. thats why some ships have some weird brs

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

if i am not mistaken BR is a value of Hull area + canons count + (crew?) and some fantasy numbers. thats why some ships have some weird brs

Doesn't a TBrig and a Xebec have the same BR?

[z4ys]

13 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Doesn't a TBrig and a Xebec have the same BR?

70BR like a normal brig if iam not mistaken. Same guns same hull (only crew differ) ( so crew might not be reflected in current BR data)

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[Voi_Ta]

Req should have br 130 and Herc 170. You cannot rebalance whole game around two ships that are completely out of charts.

Second, separate thing is that there are currently only br 80 and unlimited battles. It is like if they cancelled all but welterweight and super heavy weight in boxing.

[Old Crusty]

55 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

The way I understood BR was as an arbitrary value that the Devs use to limit PB populations and stop silly tagging practices.  Crusty I see where you want the BR to be a realistic value of a ship's fighting capability, but I don't think the Devs really care about that.  It's just a tool...not an indicator.

BR B=battle R=rating   Together BR = Battle Rating.

there is no P in BR. It is not Port Battle Rating.

[Angus MacDuff]

3 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

BR B=battle R=rating   Together BR = Battle Rating.

there is no P in BR. It is not Port Battle Rating.

Yes, I knew what BR stood for before your childish statement.  Hopefully soon the game will be re-imaged to your vision, and all of us on the forum will agree with you. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Correct Crusty. The BR is also used to verify if the ship ( or any upcoming not yet in game ships ) is eligible to enter the Port Battle, but also as a "fighting value" in the OW.

The mix of both is what I feel is not correct. Given the new additions, the values should be reviewed. That is all.

Not trying to change a fundamental design element which has proved itself a good feature, just bring it up to date to the new realities.

A up to date BR will also, by consequence, affect not only the order of battle in shallow ports but also in deep water ports.

Also in the open world attack mechanics.